Around the League - 2023 Offseason Edition

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henchman21

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I mentioned on this site, maybe not on this forum that if golf can be successful, then so can hockey. I'm not necessarily talking about the 45-year-old upper middle-class dentists, businessmen, or doctors who play on a Thursday at 11:30 a.m. I think those naturally gravitate towards this activity, but I am talking about the 8 or 14-year-old kids whose dad is buying them a forge iron set and giving them private practice. Hockey gear isn't truly that expensive when you're talking about anybody that is 20 years old or older as they're normally done growing by then.

The problem is that 7 to 18-year-old gap where you're normally buying gear almost every two to three years or so because of growth spurts. Then on top of that, you have to pay a lot for the organisational fees that include jerseys, ice time practice, and tournaments. That probably scares off a lot of parents right there, even though there are absolutely deals made out there on equipment. Everyone sees Bauer and CCM skates or sticks, but there is an all-black stick company that makes high-quality sticks for only 100 bucks. Buying brand new skates that are two or three-year-old models can lead to almost 600 to 800 dollars of savings instead of going after the newest label. People don't want to put in the work so they just see hockey as super expensive overall and not within their price range. Some of that is definitely hockey and NHL's fault as they need to convince more parents like Auston Matthew's dad to invest the time to find equipment and put in the payment for his son's ice practice which they ain't doing. When you get to the junior level for high-end leagues, the reports found that the cost wasn't different if it was a junior A football programme or hockey programme, it is simply the costs to get there to have your kid be that good which is a difference maker.

I still believe the biggest problem and fault is at the grassroots level. This is where you have entitled parents, the politics, and racism tend to happen. Every middle school in America and Canada has a gym that is made for basketball and normally every school has a field where you can put a baseball diamond, futball nets, or throwball rugby goalposts. Hockey doesn't need a rink by any means in these schools, but just get exposed to the likes of floorball. Knowing and playing floorball will eventually expose kids and people to other sports like ice or field hockey. As of now, you ain't convincing a dad that hockey is a legitimate sport that his son can play in Texas over the likes of throwball or football. You ain't convincing the bloke at the Seattle Times that the Kraken are just as important as the Seahawks or UoO Ducks. A lack of exposure is the main problem because if you didn't grow up playing, watching, or knowing about it, then you won't appreciate how truly amazing it is as a sport.

Golf is still very much a rich person's sport. There has been a lot of progress made, but the demographics show they have a long ways to go. Much more so than hockey. One advantage golf has though is that it is a lifetime sport. If you enjoy it, you have a sport that can be reasonably played into your 70s.

But to me, you can't really compare team vs individual sports all that well.

Soccer will always be the most popular sport in the world, it's just taking time for America to catch up.

Kind of a myth that soccer isn't popular in the US. It has the 2nd most former or current participants of any sport in the US, only baseball tops it. It helps that the stat includes women where women's football is about as niche as it gets. Still, popular sport. Just on the men's side of the equation, it is an offseason sport or something that kids do growing up and never play after 10/12. The participation rate goes down dramatically as football and basketball take over as the dominant sports and baseball maintains.

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Throw-ball: a sport that hides concussions and where you deflate an egg-shaped ball and throw it or run with it.
Hockey and soccer have been hiding concussions too. All sports leagues with head impacts have been trying to keep their head in the sand. Hockey is arguably the shadiest of all the sports.

We've got a chain called Play It Again Sports, and they sell a ton of used gear in addition to the new stuff. With how quickly kids grow out of things, you can buy a used pair of skates, helmet, gloves, pads, etc dirt cheap and they're basically in new condition.

Y'all will be happy to know that at 50 years young, I actually purchased my first stick last winter and played a little shinny for the first time in my life. What an absolute thrill. I can't skate worth a shirt and fall down a lot, but I got better in the three or four sessions and am looking forward to getting a little ice time this fall as well. I'm thinking if I can just stay on my feet a little more and point out the bad guys, I have a chance as a Nate Guinen type dman. *LOL*
Sadly it just isn't equipment. That is actually a fairly easy issue to solve and many places do it provided there is need. It is more about league fees, ice time, travel, etc. A local league I coached in would cost 700. Then there was mandatory travel for 10 road weekends. Where there wasn't a school bus to take kids, parents had to travel in groups and stay in their own hotel rooms. Add in food and gas... we're talking 5-600+ a weekend. Camps (good ones anyway) are 500-1000+. Suddenly the sport is 5-8k a year outside of equipment. That is before we get into the actual issue of facilities. Fort Collins, Greeley, and Loveland only have 3 facilities total between them. There has to be 50++ places to play basketball. 15+ places for football. Even Denver, which actually isn't bad in this area I think has 8 public rinks in the metro area. I think Boulder has 3 more. I could be slightly off, but the point is that there just isn't massive infrastructure there to bring the game to the masses. It is pretty easy to get the public in most places to support a rec center, but unless you're in Minnesota, Wisconsin or New Englands... good luck getting a hockey rink attached. If you're in those areas though, you can find plenty of rinks. I think Duluth/Superior has something like 6 or 7 indoor rinks combined and in the winter has 10++ outdoor.... as an urban population of about 115k. Then all the little towns outside them typically have one.

I really don't think the hockey issue is exposure from a media sense. It is simply a fast, complex game with rules that casuals don't have a clue on. If you come in without knowing a thing, you're bound to be lost without some effort to understand the game. That effort is typicaly a barrier. Add to that, the fighting and physicality are key factors in the casual popularity, but are being slowly taken out of the game. Adding even more to that, there is a very low participation rate. There is a lot keeping hockey from being a top sport in the US.
 

AllAboutAvs

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Another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet that doesn't help hockey is how early in the day the practices and games are for the very young kids. Parents are not always willing to get up that early on their days off to drive/attend their kids practices and games. This is obviously due to the lack of rinks available to all the leagues.
 

Avs91

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Objectively, the rules of football and specially baseball are more complex than hockey. It's just that Americans are more exposed to these sports.
Haven’t ever even once had a friend (who’s inherently a ‘sports’ fan to be fair) go to a couple Avs games with me and go ‘nah, I don’t like it’.

Imagine explaining a baseball game to a 30 year old who’s never seen it once.

“So, these guys all go out here, right. And then, the guy throws it so this guy has to try to hit it. But he only gets so many tries”

“If he hits it, then that team gets a point? How many tries does he get?”

“Nope he’s gotta run around like this to as many bases as he can. And that depends how how many balls vs strikes…”

“Hang on…”

All sports are crazy. But anyone that likes to ‘compete’ gets it. Like, yeah let’s get the rules down and let’s go. Except for golf. Golf is pretty much ‘fewest attempts wins’ :laugh:
 

The Moops

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When I was a kid there wasn't even an ice rink in the city I lived, so I couldn't play hockey at all. When I was in high school, the city had a rink and a travel team, but my parents weren't in a spot financially to be able to afford it.

Now that I'm a parent, I put my son in hockey when he was 5. League provided the equipment, I think there was a $100 deposit that we got back at the end of the year, but it was the time commitment more than anything... He had 2 practices a week + a road game every Saturday. It was wild. And he was only 5, couldn't hardly skate out there. We only lasted the one season. He was able to do 3 different activities that was easier and less time consuming than hockey was
 

Balthazar

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You guys talk about money but 99% of Canadian kids learn to play hockey outside... not in organized, expensive leagues that require all the gear and stuff.

Pretty much every small town in Canada has their own outdoor rink where kids can play hockey or skate for free...and when it's not available there's always street hockey. All I had growing up was a hockey stick, an old pair of cheap skates and once at Christmas when I was 10 years old I got hockey gloves (not many kids had those).

I guess kids today need a helmet too but playing hockey is literally as cheap as playing baseball...the thing is it's a cold weather sport.
 

Muffin

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You guys talk about money but 99% of Canadian kids learn to play hockey outside... not in organized, expensive leagues that require all the gear and stuff.

Pretty much every small town in Canada has their own outdoor rink where kids can play hockey or skate for free...and when it's not available there's always street hockey. All I had growing up was a hockey stick, an old pair of cheap skates and once at Christmas when I was 10 years old I got hockey gloves (not many kids had those).

I guess kids today need a helmet too but playing hockey is literally as cheap as playing baseball...the thing is it's a cold weather sport.
And hockey is the most popular sport in Canada, but that's not what's being discussed. I don't think the league has trouble with fans in Canada...
 

Balthazar

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And hockey is the most popular sport in Canada, but that's not what's being discussed. I don't think the league has trouble with fans in Canada...
We were talking about the cost of playing hockey weren't we?

If you're in Atlanta you need money to play hockey, if you're in Buffalo you don't. Again it's a cold weather thing.
 

henchman21

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Feb 24, 2012
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You guys talk about money but 99% of Canadian kids learn to play hockey outside... not in organized, expensive leagues that require all the gear and stuff.

Pretty much every small town in Canada has their own outdoor rink where kids can play hockey or skate for free...and when it's not available there's always street hockey. All I had growing up was a hockey stick, an old pair of cheap skates and once at Christmas when I was 10 years old I got hockey gloves (not many kids had those).

I guess kids today need a helmet too but playing hockey is literally as cheap as playing baseball...the thing is it's a cold weather sport.
Anywhere that is not cold 6 months of the year has issues. Which means most of the US doesn’t have that. Everywhere else, it is expensive and why it is less popular.

Haven’t ever even once had a friend (who’s inherently a ‘sports’ fan to be fair) go to a couple Avs games with me and go ‘nah, I don’t like it’.

Imagine explaining a baseball game to a 30 year old who’s never seen it once.

“So, these guys all go out here, right. And then, the guy throws it so this guy has to try to hit it. But he only gets so many tries”

“If he hits it, then that team gets a point? How many tries does he get?”

“Nope he’s gotta run around like this to as many bases as he can. And that depends how how many balls vs strikes…”

“Hang on…”

All sports are crazy. But anyone that likes to ‘compete’ gets it. Like, yeah let’s get the rules down and let’s go. Except for golf. Golf is pretty much ‘fewest attempts wins’ :laugh:
That’s the exposure side. Cheap and popular to play. People have played those sports growing up for a few bucks all spring, summer and fall instinctive at this point. Plus the sports are more static play by play. Time to pause and see what is happening between. Hockey is flowing action.
 
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RoyIsALegend

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Now that I'm a parent, I put my son in hockey when he was 5. League provided the equipment, I think there was a $100 deposit that we got back at the end of the year, but it was the time commitment more than anything... He had 2 practices a week + a road game every Saturday. It was wild. And he was only 5, couldn't hardly skate out there. We only lasted the one season. He was able to do 3 different activities that was easier and less time consuming than hockey was

What were those 3 sports?

Also, just curious; was he any good at them and did he continue to focus on any of those three sports?

Being good and successful at hockey isn’t easy. Kids can theoretically go dominate basketball, baseball, and football all the same time but can’t do anything other than top tier hockey. Happens all the time.

The demand is different, and yes of course I’m biased.
 

The Moops

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What were those 3 sports?

Also, just curious; was he any good at them and did he continue to focus on any of those three sports?

Being good and successful at hockey isn’t easy. Kids can theoretically go dominate basketball, baseball, and football all the same time but can’t do anything other than top tier hockey. Happens all the time.

The demand is different, and yes of course I’m biased.
Basketball, archery, and taekwondo. He's started football this year too, but it doesn't overlap with basketball.

He's not good at any of them but he loves them all haha

I take it back, he's actually pretty good at archery and has placed at competitions. But he's not super athletic for the other sports. I think he'll get there though, he tries hard and he's only 9.
 
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GeoRox89

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You guys talk about money but 99% of Canadian kids learn to play hockey outside... not in organized, expensive leagues that require all the gear and stuff.

Pretty much every small town in Canada has their own outdoor rink where kids can play hockey or skate for free...and when it's not available there's always street hockey. All I had growing up was a hockey stick, an old pair of cheap skates and once at Christmas when I was 10 years old I got hockey gloves (not many kids had those).

I guess kids today need a helmet too but playing hockey is literally as cheap as playing baseball...the thing is it's a cold weather sport.
In terms of organized league sports, everyone I knew growing up on the coast in BC played soccer, some played baseball and if it was a school team maybe basketball. Playing organized hockey was way less common and outdoor rinks just aren’t feasible.

That said, if you were playing a random pickup game of any sport with friends it was always street hockey. If anyone ever had their birthday party as a free skate at the rink too then then sticks were always coming out. Organized hockey is expensive which is too bad cause I had way more fun playing street hockey as a kid than competitive/organized soccer, basketball or baseball
 

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This is the biggest problem, IMO. Most people cannot afford it.
The gatekeeping has to be close.

Kids playing soccer has never translated though, so I'm not sure playing the sport is a prerequisite to being a spectator. What's the percentage on this board who played.

I think the NHL's best potential for international growth is East Asia: China, Japan, Taiwan, And South Korea. Industrialized Countries with winter and decent amounts of registered players.

I suggest it is because you have these writers and journalists who have been in the business for 30 to 40 years getting these high-end positions not ever playing or understanding hockey. Stephan A. Smith is a perfect example of that, born in Bronx and grew up with the sports of the Bronx culture (throwball and basketball, definitely basketball). Doesn't talk about hockey at all because he doesn't really know or care about it due to not ever playing it at the grassroots level. Woody Paige is another one, born in Tennessee and has had to be a sports writer for at least 50 years already he wouldn't have known anything about hockey if the Avs never came to Colorado and had successful seasons. Even then, he barely writes about the Avs because he's stuffing his mouth with whatever wrong or right Broncos are doing.
I do think the NHL is more concerned about how hockey is handled on ESPN right now (thinking back to the '01 Cup finals where they were showing early season baseball highlights during the intermissions:madfire:).
 
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