It's funny because NHL playoffs are probably the single best sporting event ever in the world yet nobody cares because Neanderthals can't market it. That MLS stuff is just overhyped rubbish at the moment, but them coming close to the NHL isn't exactly a great sign for the NHL themselves.
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henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
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I love how Walsh spins that sponsorship thing like it is fully Gary's fault. 
Hockey is a niche sport. Simple as that. It is really only king in one country (and that seems to be declining) and falls somewhere between 2-8 in most western countries. In the US, MLS isn't as popular as NHL yet, and unless the MLS can get more stars (and closer to their primes), I don't see that changing soon. Soccer though in general is certainly more popular now. Baseball, basketball, and certainly football are WAY more popular as team sports. There is about zero chance that the NHL will ever really compete there. No amount of marketing, hype, force feeding, etc will ever really get hockey as the prime sport.
It is an expensive sport to play, with complex rules, and such a quick pace of play that casuals just can't get into it quickly. All of the other major team sports are fairly static or simple. Soccer is fairly complex, but it is also the most widely played sport that is cheap to get into. So the rules and play nuance is typically understood at a basic level... even in the US where ~30% of households have somebody who played organized soccer.
IMO The only way to sustainably grow the hockey fanbase is to get more kids playing and lower the cost of entry. This is where people rip the sunbelt and US expansion in general... but it has dramatically helped the league and the product.
Hockey is a niche sport. Simple as that. It is really only king in one country (and that seems to be declining) and falls somewhere between 2-8 in most western countries. In the US, MLS isn't as popular as NHL yet, and unless the MLS can get more stars (and closer to their primes), I don't see that changing soon. Soccer though in general is certainly more popular now. Baseball, basketball, and certainly football are WAY more popular as team sports. There is about zero chance that the NHL will ever really compete there. No amount of marketing, hype, force feeding, etc will ever really get hockey as the prime sport.
It is an expensive sport to play, with complex rules, and such a quick pace of play that casuals just can't get into it quickly. All of the other major team sports are fairly static or simple. Soccer is fairly complex, but it is also the most widely played sport that is cheap to get into. So the rules and play nuance is typically understood at a basic level... even in the US where ~30% of households have somebody who played organized soccer.
IMO The only way to sustainably grow the hockey fanbase is to get more kids playing and lower the cost of entry. This is where people rip the sunbelt and US expansion in general... but it has dramatically helped the league and the product.
Avs_19
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2007
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Petey's gone
And that should cement it to anyone here still saying that Frail Cale is better. Captain Quinn has the leadership intangibles.
AvsGuy
Hired the wrong DJ again
Why does everyone always want to grow hockey
I love hockey and don't particularly care whether the rest of the world does or not
I love hockey and don't particularly care whether the rest of the world does or not
Bill Peckerskull
Fargin' Icehole
This is the biggest problem, IMO. Most people cannot afford it. I liken it somewhat more to golf, which is also not cheap to play. A dozen balls, shoes, and clubs are expensive, and you can't just walk outside and play, you have to go somewhere and pay a decent amount to play. The difference is, there are 1000s of golf courses around, and it's marketed a lot better than hockey, and no one generally gets hurt playing a round or two of golf.
That you can't just grab a ball and a stick and walk out and play hockey on any given day in the US is also a big part of the problem. Maybe you could if it was some kind of cheap ball hockey with no skates, and you can find a playground or a not so busy street to play on, but the equipment isn't readily available in stores across the US. I could go to any sporting goods store, or even department store and some grocery stores locally and buy a cheap football, basketball, baseball/glove, or soccer ball, but there wouldn't be a hockey gear to buy. Hell, there's even golf shit to buy at may of those stores too. IMO, that is the fault of the NHL and their lower tiered brethren for not promoting their sport more. There needs to be more commercials on TV, more hype over the sport and it's stars, and more easily available cheep equipment for kids to go and buy. You need to give them a reason to want and go play. Right now, that doesn't happen, especially outside of the cities that have hockey.
The weather here in the US also doesn't help, as more than half the country never gets cold enough at any time of year to have an ice rink available. You have to go find one, and pay to rent time to play.
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The Abusement Park
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- Jan 18, 2016
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Because the bigger the sport is, the easier it is to watch, easier to play, and would in turn make the sport more talented and entertaining most likely.
Chiarelli
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I found a $5 pair of CCM tacks at Walmart for my daughter a couple summers ago and we only go to the ODR (free). Not an option for everyone obviously but it doesn't have to be 10's of thousands to play.
Mainly played street hockey growing up. Not everyone has to play semi pro or go to the bigs.
Fact is the sport just isn't that popular.
Mainly played street hockey growing up. Not everyone has to play semi pro or go to the bigs.
Fact is the sport just isn't that popular.
AvsGuy
Hired the wrong DJ again
Well and maybe if we just hold hands and sing Kumbaya we can eradicate world hunger too
Hockey is never going to be accessible. Things that cost a lot of money are never going to cost no money. Unless we collectively abandon currency as a species, hockey will never be the most popular sport. End of.
The endless convos about it are just so damn boring
The Abusement Park
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henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
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It doesn't have to cost 10k to play... but competitive leagues for youth are 5-10x as expensive as basketball, baseball, and soccer. Football is roughly similar. It is just a different world of cost for a sport that many don't understand. The barrier to entry is just high... and that'll continue to have it be a niche sport. Which is perfectly fine IMO... you just can reasonably compare it to basketball or baseball in the US. It'll never compete on that level.
Metallo
NWOBHM forever \m/
Objectively, the rules of football and specially baseball are more complex than hockey. It's just that Americans are more exposed to these sports.
I mentioned on this site, maybe not on this forum that if golf can be successful, then so can hockey. I'm not necessarily talking about the 45-year-old upper middle-class dentists, businessmen, or doctors who play on a Thursday at 11:30 a.m. I think those naturally gravitate towards this activity, but I am talking about the 8 or 14-year-old kids whose dad is buying them a forge iron set and giving them private practice. Hockey gear isn't truly that expensive when you're talking about anybody that is 20 years old or older as they're normally done growing by then.
The problem is that 7 to 18-year-old gap where you're normally buying gear almost every two to three years or so because of growth spurts. Then on top of that, you have to pay a lot for the organisational fees that include jerseys, ice time practice, and tournaments. That probably scares off a lot of parents right there, even though there are absolutely deals made out there on equipment. Everyone sees Bauer and CCM skates or sticks, but there is an all-black stick company that makes high-quality sticks for only 100 bucks. Buying brand new skates that are two or three-year-old models can lead to almost 600 to 800 dollars of savings instead of going after the newest label. People don't want to put in the work so they just see hockey as super expensive overall and not within their price range. Some of that is definitely hockey and NHL's fault as they need to convince more parents like Auston Matthew's dad to invest the time to find equipment and put in the payment for his son's ice practice which they ain't doing. When you get to the junior level for high-end leagues, the reports found that the cost wasn't different if it was a junior A football programme or hockey programme, it is simply the costs to get there to have your kid be that good which is a difference maker.
I still believe the biggest problem and fault is at the grassroots level. This is where you have entitled parents, the politics, and racism tend to happen. Every middle school in America and Canada has a gym that is made for basketball and normally every school has a field where you can put a baseball diamond, futball nets, or throwball rugby goalposts. Hockey doesn't need a rink by any means in these schools, but just get exposed to the likes of floorball. Knowing and playing floorball will eventually expose kids and people to other sports like ice or field hockey. As of now, you ain't convincing a dad that hockey is a legitimate sport that his son can play in Texas over the likes of throwball or football. You ain't convincing the bloke at the Seattle Times that the Kraken are just as important as the Seahawks or UoO Ducks. A lack of exposure is the main problem because if you didn't grow up playing, watching, or knowing about it, then you won't appreciate how truly amazing it is as a sport.
The problem is that 7 to 18-year-old gap where you're normally buying gear almost every two to three years or so because of growth spurts. Then on top of that, you have to pay a lot for the organisational fees that include jerseys, ice time practice, and tournaments. That probably scares off a lot of parents right there, even though there are absolutely deals made out there on equipment. Everyone sees Bauer and CCM skates or sticks, but there is an all-black stick company that makes high-quality sticks for only 100 bucks. Buying brand new skates that are two or three-year-old models can lead to almost 600 to 800 dollars of savings instead of going after the newest label. People don't want to put in the work so they just see hockey as super expensive overall and not within their price range. Some of that is definitely hockey and NHL's fault as they need to convince more parents like Auston Matthew's dad to invest the time to find equipment and put in the payment for his son's ice practice which they ain't doing. When you get to the junior level for high-end leagues, the reports found that the cost wasn't different if it was a junior A football programme or hockey programme, it is simply the costs to get there to have your kid be that good which is a difference maker.
I still believe the biggest problem and fault is at the grassroots level. This is where you have entitled parents, the politics, and racism tend to happen. Every middle school in America and Canada has a gym that is made for basketball and normally every school has a field where you can put a baseball diamond, futball nets, or throwball rugby goalposts. Hockey doesn't need a rink by any means in these schools, but just get exposed to the likes of floorball. Knowing and playing floorball will eventually expose kids and people to other sports like ice or field hockey. As of now, you ain't convincing a dad that hockey is a legitimate sport that his son can play in Texas over the likes of throwball or football. You ain't convincing the bloke at the Seattle Times that the Kraken are just as important as the Seahawks or UoO Ducks. A lack of exposure is the main problem because if you didn't grow up playing, watching, or knowing about it, then you won't appreciate how truly amazing it is as a sport.
Avs_19
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2007
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Bettman's NHL. They've increased revenue but they're honestly doing the bare minimum that I think pretty much anyone qualified to be in that position would do. Too many old boys club members, who are stuck in the past and I think take a very short-sighted view on most things. A lot of focus on history, tradition, perception, their own legacy, etc as well. Will the next person be better? Who knows but there's only one way to find out. I'd like to see what a new leader/group could do to maximize the potential of the league. Of course that new person will just be Daly but maybe he'll surprise.
Tagliabue retired at 66 and then Goodell took over in the NFL when he was 47. Stern retired at 71 and then Silver took over in the NBA when he was 52.
Bettman is currently 71 with no end in sight. Part of me wonders if he wants to surpass Stern's 30 years in the NBA, which I believe will happen next year, and then maybe there would be a change. He's an egomaniac so that seems like something he'd really care about. NHL owners seem very content too and there's no vocal/powerful owner out there like other leagues.
Soccer will always be the most popular sport in the world, it's just taking time for America to catch up.
It already is as the EPL easily outdraws the likes of MLS matches constantly. The main field of play is if the MLS will ever surpass the NHL? The likelihood of that is probably still "no," but Messi is definitely making grounds for it. I got Hulu and others with ads and I see a million different MGM betting commercials and only one of them had hockey as an exposure sport in the commercial. And this is with MGM being a prime sponsor of the NHL and with VGK. I see a million Subway ads in the States with a crazy amount of sports athletics and not one with an NHL player. Yet I watch a Canadian hockey game and they have Brett Burns up there in the past and now have Mark Messier as the main spokesman for some very and extremely strange reason.
Gatorade was a major sponsor of the NHL up until last year when I never saw hockey in their commercials. The NHL had good sponsors, but it goes back to the grassroots level. Everyone knows what a throwball, baseball, or basketball looks like. I would guess a lot would know what a hockey stick or hockey mask is as well, but simply gets no recognition because most people don't know what a basic hockey play is I take it.
Bettman has done a lot of good at making the NHL a legitmate sports league, but I agree that the new cutting-edge aspects have passed him and his old boys' gang by like ten years ago. The bigger problem is that Daley is probably going to be waiting in the wings to take his spot and it will be more of the same IMHO. Hockey, especially the NHL keeps marketing on tradition like I see with football with clubs of Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man United, etc., but most of the people don't really care about that tradition in hockey except in Canada. NBA, though crazy overrated, applies as "cool and cutting-edge" because they were able to make the sport seem cool, watchable, and hype it up. I absolutely think hockey has all those same attributes, but is let down by the people at the top.
expatriatedtexan
Habitual Line Stepper
- Aug 17, 2005
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We've got a chain called Play It Again Sports, and they sell a ton of used gear in addition to the new stuff. With how quickly kids grow out of things, you can buy a used pair of skates, helmet, gloves, pads, etc dirt cheap and they're basically in new condition.
Y'all will be happy to know that at 50 years young, I actually purchased my first stick last winter and played a little shinny for the first time in my life. What an absolute thrill. I can't skate worth a shirt and fall down a lot, but I got better in the three or four sessions and am looking forward to getting a little ice time this fall as well. I'm thinking if I can just stay on my feet a little more and point out the bad guys, I have a chance as a Nate Guinen type dman. *LOL*
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Chiarelli
Registered User
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I don't think hockey will ever be more dominant in the US than baseball or football but it should be more popular and profitable than it is.
Throw-ball: a sport that hides concussions and where you deflate an egg-shaped ball and throw it or run with it.
- Apr 25, 2006
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The real question is: Does hockey in the US have shit coverage because there's no interest or there's no interest because there's shit coverage?
I suggest it is because you have these writers and journalists who have been in the business for 30 to 40 years getting these high-end positions not ever playing or understanding hockey. Stephan A. Smith is a perfect example of that, born in Bronx and grew up with the sports of the Bronx culture (throwball and basketball, definitely basketball). Doesn't talk about hockey at all because he doesn't really know or care about it due to not ever playing it at the grassroots level. Woody Paige is another one, born in Tennessee and has had to be a sports writer for at least 50 years already he wouldn't have known anything about hockey if the Avs never came to Colorado and had successful seasons. Even then, he barely writes about the Avs because he's stuffing his mouth with whatever wrong or right Broncos are doing.
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