Around the League - 2023 Offseason Edition

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henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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Sure, there are questionmarks with everybody.

I think he fell to 7th not because he other players have passed him in the years leading up to the draft, but because of the current world situation and general ability to scout Russian players.

Now granted, Arizona did pick up a Russian (Simashev) before Michkov, but that was an off the board pick anyway.

That's not the only reason he fell... the Russia situation has a role (contract more than scouting... there weren't really issues scouting Russians, if there was, there wouldn't have been 4 Russians selected in the first), but it isn't the only reason. Now I don't think it will play out like this... but I'm reminded of the people screaming about Zadina falling, when there were very legit reasons he fell.
 

Balthazar

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Sure, there are questionmarks with everybody.

I think he fell to 7th not because he other players have passed him in the years leading up to the draft, but because of the current world situation and general ability to scout Russian players.

Now granted, Arizona did pick up a Russian (Simashev) before Michkov, but that was an off the board pick anyway.
Well we know for a fact that Michkov straight out told AZ to not draft him because he'd not go there. He even refused to meet them.

We don't know if he told that to other teams but there were words on draft day that he also told Washington to not trade up for him because he wasn't interested to go there either.

It's easy to blame the teams and politics when we don't know everything. Because of the way he conducts himself it's safe to say that he's a potential headache for any GM.
 
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henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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Well we know for a fact that Michkov straight out told AZ to not draft him because he'd not go there. He even refused to meet them.

We don't know if he told that to other teams but there were words on draft day that he also told Washington to not trade up for him because he wasn't interested to go there either.

It's easy to blame the teams and politics when we don't know everything. Because he the way he conducts himself it's safe to say that he's a potential headache for any GM.
I recall reading a scout saying "Michkov is going to get some GM fired." :laugh:

There is some really clear talent in Michkov, but he's got a lot of questions surrounding him. Some of it on the ice, some off.
 
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Metallo

NWOBHM forever \m/
Feb 14, 2010
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People thought for decades that the Habs would never rebuild because the fans and media wouldn't accept it. Turns out that they were very wrong.

Chances are fans in Winnipeg would rather have a full rebuild (if explained properly) than an older team that fights for the last wildcard spot every year.
Maybe it took decades of refusing to rebuild for those fans/media to realize that it was preferable to failed renovation projects. We will never know!
 

LOFIN

Registered User
Sep 16, 2011
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After a quick look, it seems like the Washington stuff was more than just rumors. Confirmed by his agent:

Michkov's Agent: Russian Didn't Want To Be Drafted By Capitals Or Coyotes

Well that's unfortunate. Fortunately these cases are far and between, where a player forces his way to certain teams (or rather out of certain teams). That said, I kinda welcome player empowerment if that's where the league is heading (as in Tkachuk, PLD, Horvat wanting a trade). Because of the hard cap and numerous trade clauses, player movement is hard enough as it is. Would be more interesting to see more stars move around in this league.
 

CobraAcesS

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Montreal and Winnipeg are apples and oranges as markets. Montreal doesn't need any money and they have such a backlog of fans, they can have an exodus and still sell out most nights. They had a terrible team last year and still averaged over 21k fans. Winnipeg has an average year and dipped to 14k with next year looking like it'll be under 14k with ease... and they are absurdly more reliant on the gate revenues. If they had a bottom 5 team for 2 years, they'd be bankrupt. It is just wildly different situations.



I took it as winning a Cup sort of building. Building depth and just keeping a franchise a float, it is a perfectly viable way. Just when you take your shots, you may get a year or two at most to really go for it (and I stand by the mistake Columbus made was not going all in the season prior to get a 2 year run instead of 1). It keeps teams financially viable and operating, and yeah that is what WInnipeg is gearing towards. Sadly, not even in today's NHL can any team win a Cup.

Pitt will be fun to watch... a super old team with a collection of superstars from 2013.

Yeah they'll be in the fun zone on all the charts.
 

Alienblood

Registered User
Nov 22, 2021
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There are genuine questions on coachability, attitude, skating, size and defensive effort beyond his contract and nationality.

Sean Day and Joe Veleno were both exceptional status players who were projected top 5 when they were 16. Day has barely made an impact in the AHL and Veleno is a low end 3rd liner. Success at 16/17 doesn't equate to success at 25. There have been tons of guys who were projected top 10 picks in their -1 years only to never really make an impact. I wouldn't use things from 2 years ago to assert they are all equal later.
Passing on Michkov was a huge mistake by Montreal. He's destined to be a star and is watching film of Crosby playing center to.learn for his own transition to center for next season .

He's gonna be at center going forward and recently dominated a preseason game at center.
 
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henchman21

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Feb 24, 2012
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Passing on Michkov was a huge mistake by Montreal. He's destined to be a star and is watching film of Crosby playing center to.learn for his own transition to center for next season .

He's gonna be at center going forward and recently dominated a preseason game at center.
Dominated a 2nd (3rd) tier pro league preseason game?!?! Oh my!
 

S E P H

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Quebec would be in the same boat which is the main reason why I don't believe the Nords would succeed long term.
Quebec City is a much nicer place than Winnipeg. Some of Canada's problem is weather and it is true that QC suffers from the same aspects as Winnipeg does when it comes to -10 C blizzard winters, but I do think Nordiques would be a much more attractive destination for non-Canadian players to want to go to over anything in Manitoba. I know if I was a UFA player, I would very much consider Quebec City as a legit option. The main problem, which is not only a QC problem is that you lot have gotten crazier in regards to taxes and I don't blame NHLers for not wanting to play in Canada because of that. Nonetheless, Quebec City would be one of the best choices between them and other teams like Winnipeg, Ottawa, Detriot, or Buffalo.
I do think Winnipeg is trying that and I think it is out of desperation. They simply can't afford a full tear down and rebuild. If they lose their attendance, that team is moved within 5 years.... they know that. So staying in the murky middle and working towards depth hoping to catch lightning in a bottle keeps the team in Winnipeg and viable.
Jets are a weird team because the guy crying out for money is the majority owner and he's not really worth anything compared to other owners. I doubt he would be able to buy any other team in the NHL currently besides the Coyotes (which should increase value once they get land for a new arena). However, their minority owner is David Thomson who is worth close to 60 billion. If Chipman fails, which it seems now is inevitable in time, who says that Thomson just outright buys the team from him and keeps them in Winnipeg?
 

S E P H

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Dominated a 2nd (3rd) tier pro league preseason game?!?! Oh my!
Say what you want about if his talent will transform into plays and points based on his work ethic, but he would be the best player on or in the entire Montreal Canadiens organisation. He's more talented than Suzuki, Caufield, Reinbacher, etc. Now with that said, they didn't need a winger yet that's what makes the NHL draft unique. It's one of the few along with the MLB where BPA is of utmost importance.
 

LOFIN

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Say what you want about if his talent will transform into plays and points based on his work ethic, but he would be the best player on or in the entire Montreal Canadiens organisation. He's more talented than Suzuki, Caufield, Reinbacher, etc. Now with that said, they didn't need a winger yet that's what makes the NHL draft unique. It's one of the few along with the MLB where BPA is of utmost importance.
I think it's especially important to take this into Montreal Canadiens context. They haven't had a legit superstar in ages.
 
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Alienblood

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Say what you want about if his talent will transform into plays and points based on his work ethic, but he would be the best player on or in the entire Montreal Canadiens organisation. He's more talented than Suzuki, Caufield, Reinbacher, etc. Now with that said, they didn't need a winger yet that's what makes the NHL draft unique. It's one of the few along with the MLB where BPA is of utmost importance.
He's becoming a center though as well
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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well it was KHL yes and he is now a center. Montreal needed a star and he was there for the taking , not a stay at home blueliner.
It was a preseason game and only a game… projecting him as a for sure dominant center after this sample is a leap.

If you think Reinbacher is a stay at home guy, you’ve clearly never watched him.
Say what you want about if his talent will transform into plays and points based on his work ethic, but he would be the best player on or in the entire Montreal Canadiens organisation. He's more talented than Suzuki, Caufield, Reinbacher, etc. Now with that said, they didn't need a winger yet that's what makes the NHL draft unique. It's one of the few along with the MLB where BPA is of utmost importance.
I have zero questions about his talent and ceiling. I think he’s a fantastic talent, but he certainly has questions. To portray it like it he doesn’t is dishonest.
 

Alienblood

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Nov 22, 2021
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Say what you want about if his talent will transform into plays and points based on his work ethic, but he would be the best player on or in the entire Montreal Canadiens organisation. He's more talented than Suzuki, Caufield, Reinbacher, etc. Now with that said, they didn't need a winger yet that's what makes the NHL draft unique. It's one of the few along with the MLB where BPA is of utmost importance.
He's a center now and the Flyers will likely do all they cam to keep him there
 
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LOFIN

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I have zero questions about his talent and ceiling. I think he’s a fantastic talent, but he certainly has questions. To portray it like it he doesn’t is dishonest.
At least my point here was, that his upside is so big that it should be worth the gamble. Especially for Montreal who have not had a superstar since forever.
 
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Balthazar

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Say what you want about if his talent will transform into plays and points based on his work ethic, but he would be the best player on or in the entire Montreal Canadiens organisation. He's more talented than Suzuki, Caufield, Reinbacher, etc. Now with that said, they didn't need a winger yet that's what makes the NHL draft unique. It's one of the few along with the MLB where BPA is of utmost importance.
One thing people should know is that Montreal's Director of amateur scouting is Nikolai Bobrov. He's Russian himself and his father works for SKA, which is Michkov's team in the KHL.

Knowing this, it's pretty safe to assume that no team in the NHL had better infos on Michkov than the Habs.
 
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henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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At least my point here was, that his upside is so big that it should be worth the gamble. Especially for Montreal who have not had a superstar since forever.
Maybe and I can see the case for it. Yet, they would have known him very well, they have plenty of wingers… and likewise, they haven’t had a prospect like Reinbacher on defense since the 70s.

I find it very confusing how underrated Reinbacher is. I don’t think he has the raw upside of Seider, but he’s a much better player at the same age.
 

Balthazar

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Quebec City is a much nicer place than Winnipeg. Some of Canada's problem is weather and it is true that QC suffers from the same aspects as Winnipeg does when it comes to -10 C blizzard winters, but I do think Nordiques would be a much more attractive destination for non-Canadian players to want to go to over anything in Manitoba. I know if I was a UFA player, I would very much consider Quebec City as a legit option. The main problem, which is not only a QC problem is that you lot have gotten crazier in regards to taxes and I don't blame NHLers for not wanting to play in Canada because of that. Nonetheless, Quebec City would be one of the best choices between them and other teams like Winnipeg, Ottawa, Detriot, or Buffalo.
I'm old enough to remember that Quebec city already had some issues to attract players in the 90's (hello Lindros).

It's a nice city (I live there) but the weather, language, taxes and the fact that it's a small city are a very tough sell to young millionaires that historically love LA, NYC and Florida's beaches.

I find it very confusing how underrated Reinbacher is. I don’t think he has the raw upside of Seider, but he’s a much better player at the same age.
From what I understand he can become a Pietrangelo type of defenseman.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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I'm old enough to remember that Quebec city already had some issues to attract players in the 90's (hello Lindros).

It's a nice city (I live there) but the weather, language, taxes and the fact that it's a small city are a very tough sell to young millionaires that historically love LA, NYC and Florida's beaches.


From what I understand he can become a Pietrangelo type of impact defenseman.
Depending how you feel about Pietrangelo, I can see it. A legit #1D who you can build around a Cup sort of defense, but not likely a top 5 level D.
 

UnkleKraker

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The whole money part of TV is also why I think there is a real chance at some major friction in the next CBA. The TSN deal runs out right at the end of the CBA and ESPN/TNT will be up shortly after. If the projections start coming in lower or flat... the owners will really want to protect themselves, and the mechanism for that is escrow. Which is the #1 thing the players hate.

I think the path out of the "between times" is a platform that has traditional media and streaming AND know how to get subscription fees on top of advertisement. It may seem like double dipping but for pro sports I think it is necessary to generate the revenue needed.
 
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UnkleKraker

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Maybe and I can see the case for it. Yet, they would have known him very well, they have plenty of wingers… and likewise, they haven’t had a prospect like Reinbacher on defense since the 70s.

I find it very confusing how underrated Reinbacher is. I don’t think he has the raw upside of Seider, but he’s a much better player at the same age.

I got the same impression that he was more of a two way guy with limited upside. Since neither of my teams were picking that high I didn't even do YouTube scouting, I was just lazy and read some draft ratings. Good on them if he has something even nearing elite upside.
 

AvsMakar08

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One thing people should know is that Montreal's Director of amateur scouting is Nikolai Bobrov. He's Russian himself and his father works for SKA, which is Michkov's team in the KHL.

Knowing this, it's pretty safe to assume that no team in the NHL had better infos on Michkov than the Habs.
Maybe Michkov refused to play for Canadians and that is why Canadians decided to pass on him.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
67,095
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I got the same impression that he was more of a two way guy with limited upside. Since neither of my teams were picking that high I didn't even do YouTube scouting, I was just lazy and read some draft ratings. Good on them if he has something even nearing elite upside.
I think exposure does have something to do with it. He’s really a treat to watch and plays a very mature game. With some real offensive upside too. In a better version of the Swiss league as it has improved since this comparison… he produced like Josi. To my eyes he was more impactful on both ends of the ice compared to Josi too (I spent a good amount of time comparing their tapes). I think he’s a great young defenseman… but I’ve been screaming that for a year basically. :laugh:
 
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