Around the League - 2023 Offseason Edition

[redacted]

Zadorov is the obvious example, but I think there have been too many other players that seem to play scared. Newhook, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Greer, Jost, and some others were neutered from their strengths and playing style because of what Avs wanted them to be (which I suspect is from Bednar). Now do we what these types of players in our organisation? No, however, we also cannot continue to keep drafting players like Newhook and Jost high if they ain't going to mesh well and put in the effort that Bednar demands.

I really think it is overblown... Z got a ton of chances and kept getting chances to rebound. He might get pulled back for a game or two, but within a week was back in a larger role for weeks. Newhook got 6-8 weeks the last two seasons in a 15-16 minute role and never could keep them. His minutes died after the deadline because the Avs had to make acquistions to deal with his lack of growth as a player. Jost is very similar to Newhook just add 2 more seasons to it. Yak and Chucky were just reclamation projects that didn't work.

Greer is one I'd probably agree with that Bednar couldn't deal with. Not because of his style, but because he was a penalty waiting to happen and Greer's talent wasn't enough to deal with that. So Greer either had to tone down his BS or never be a NHL player with the Avs. Greer had to find a place that would accept his penalties or even encourage it... which means Boston is the perfect fit for him (Carolina is probably next).

I think there are plenty of things you can criticize with Bednar... treatment of young players would be far, far down that list for me. He hasn't been perfect, but he's gotten a ton of great results out of young players.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Mate, that was as big of a "jump to a conclusion" post as I have seen. Bednar doesn't need any defending, his resume already speaks for himself. Winner at every league, able to get results with inferior squads, and he's the one I wanted Avs to hire when Roy quit. However, my post only brings up the impact that he isn't a perfect coach and never will be. He's excellent, but even excellent coaches will eventually succumb to their weaknesses/ideals to the point that they are let go.

Zadorov is the obvious example, but I think there have been too many other players that seem to play scared. Newhook, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Greer, Jost, and some others were neutered from their strengths and playing style because of what Avs wanted them to be (which I suspect is from Bednar). Now do we what these types of players in our organisation? No, however, we also cannot continue to keep drafting players like Newhook and Jost high if they ain't going to mesh well and put in the effort that Bednar demands.

I mean that list of players(except Newhook who still have some growth left I imagine) is a list of pretty inconsequential players. Yakupov is just an awful hockey player who isn’t remotely nhl caliber. Galchenyuk is hardly a NHL caliber player, if one at all anymore. Greer wasn’t an NHL caliber player during his time here and still is a low level player currently. Zadorov was a mistake prone bottom
pairing dman here, and is still currently a bottom pairing dman. Jost was a 3rd/4th liner here and still is.

It’s not like Bednar is misusing these guys so much that they leave and blossom. It’s just who these guys are as players.

 

[dahrougem2]

For a 2C role... I think you have to earn that. Expecting to be given a role like that is unreasonable IMO. Adding to that, the Avs should have never expected that out of him... and they probably could have messaged that better. Then stating in the summer they were comfortable and going to give him time was a mistake IMO.

That is where Newhook's beef probably is. The Avs publicly say Newhook is going to be the guy, Bednar publicly says he will get a long look, publicly the organization is saying everything Newhook wants to hear and it just... doesn't happen. I can understand his frustration. Even if nothing is given, to be public about it like the Avs were gives Newhook a legitimate gripe because what they said and what they did were two different things.

 

[Ceremony]

Montreal fans are a touchy bunch.

 

[redacted]

That is where Newhook's beef probably is. The Avs publicly say Newhook is going to be the guy, Bednar publicly says he will get a long look, publicly the organization is saying everything Newhook wants to hear and it just... doesn't happen. I can understand his frustration. Even if nothing is given, to be public about it like the Avs were gives Newhook a legitimate gripe because what they said and what they did were two different things.

I’d think behind closed doors there were conversations on it and why it never went the full 2 months route. I’m not privy to that, but I’d be shocked if there wasn’t. I do think it is very hard for players who have always had a lot of success to suddenly struggle. Coping with that can be hard too.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[S E P H]

Wow, Avs actually gave out the numbers and we simply did not find out on the first day of training camp? What a revolution! Too bad teams were doing this 15 years ago...

 

[CobraAcesS]

Maybe I'll like 12 on an Avs jersey again.

 

[The Merchant]

 

[Balthazar]

The audio guy should go first.

 

[Avs_19]

I don't think Newhook was taking shots per se. He did make it a point to mention having the trust of the coach, more rope, etc and I think that was intentional but he also mentioned how different it is between the Habs and a team competing for the Cup and how there's less margin for error. He didn’t go full Kaut.

 

[shadow1]

Okay so this is something that I don't really agree with...and agree w/ Henchy on. You don't typically get gifted opportunities, you have to earn them.

Newhook was bounced around the line-up a bit, but when he did get his chances he didn't seize them.

In December and January, he had a 20 game stretch where his role and ice time were increased. Even while playing with Mikko Rantanen during that period, Newhook didn't perform well.

I'm not blaming a 22-year-old for lacking objectivity about the situation. But from a fan perspective, Newhook ultimately wasn't one of the Colorado's best players, and at times was one of their worst. Hopefully things work out for him in Montreal.

 

[sethro109]

I can understand Newhook's frustration. You hear things at the beginning of the year that the coach will be giving you ample time at 2C only to be on the 3rd line in a few games. Who wouldn't be upset in that scenario? Bednar is a system guy through and through and if you don't fit that system he doesn't give you much of a chance. Hopefully he finds some more leniency with JD in the upcoming season.

 

[niwotsblessing]

 

[redacted]

The frustration is understandable, but the mindset is the issue.

We’ve all forgotten to mute the phone.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Montreal fans are a touchy bunch.

The same fans that tried to convince themselves and all of us that Victor Mete was going to be better than Cale Makar? Those fans?

Newhook with some veiled shots...

f*** him. Quite whining and power through. This is a weak mindset. Be more like LOC. Guy worked his dick off to get to the show and even got sent down several times. Never gave up. Never whined about usage he just worked.

 

[TheForsbergShow]

At one point the avs had 11 injuries, so of course he was going to bounce around the lineup. The fact that he couldn't take that opportunity and showcase a reason to be a mainstay in the top 6 is all you need to know what Bednar thinks of him.

The kid will get bodied off the puck by Sam Girard this year ffs. He moves his feet fast making him look like a fast skater and has a decent shot/puck handling but man the play might have died on his stick more than Jost and he thinks he was underutilized playing against 3rd pairing dmen?

I can see his raw totals increase because of more toi and someone on Montreal needs to score, but he never earned that here even when we desperately needed offense . I thought Malgin looked much more effective than him in his limited time.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

That's kind of a strawman. Nobody wants to erase them from history, nor is Chicago trying to deliberately demean them with the name. The problem is that the name and logo reduces Native Americans to a caricature, erasing their actual heritage and replacing it with a cartoon. At best, it's callously insensitive given that the tribes themselves are unanimous about their dislike of it. Who better to judge whether it's offensive or not?

You don't get sarcasm. Do you.....?

 

[expatriatedtexan]

To me, shots fired like these are almost always a red flag. Not a fan of the statement in general.

Red flag on the player taking the shot or at the organization the player is leaving?

[edit, never mind. I posted this before I finished reading the thread.]

As for Newy, I'm glad he thinks he has more to offer than he showed here. Because he showed very little while given every freaking opportunity in the world to succeed in the top six as either a center or winger. Then in the middle six in the same way. Then eventually in the bottom three in the same manner.

He looked mostly out of place in every damn slot Bednar put him in. If he feels salt towards the Avs in any fashion, the dude needs to take an extremely long, hard look in the mirror. He never really played the Avs way. He stands still. A. Lot.

He still has time to figure it out, and who knows, maybe Marty St. Louis will be able to communicate in a different way where Newy is better able to receive or work on the things keeping him from success. I know Alex has the talent, it's the effort and to a lesser degree the IQ that I feel is mostly responsible for holding him back.

 

[redacted]

Red flag on the player taking the shot or at the organization the player is leaving?

[edit, never mind. I posted this before I finished reading the thread.]

As for Newy, I'm glad he thinks he has more to offer than he showed here. Because he showed very little while given every freaking opportunity in the world to succeed in the top six as either a center or winger. Then in the middle six in the same way. Then eventually in the bottom three in the same manner.

He looked mostly out of place in every damn slot Bednar put him in. If he feels salt towards the Avs in any fashion, the dude needs to take an extremely long, hard look in the mirror. He never really played the Avs way. He stands still. A. Lot.

I agree and I want him to believe he has more. To state it is because of opportunity or the coach not trusting him seems like pass the blame to someone else. Instead of that, figure out what it takes to make it as a player in the league… even if it means just being a role player.

IMO one of the hardest things for players to learn and adapt to is suddenly not being elite. So many of these kids have been elite their entire lives. Especially guys like Newhook and Jost. To get to the NHL and suddenly be below average is a real shot to the ego and sometimes that isn’t reconciled or dealt with well. Makes me have a lot of respect for Girgensons. Dude fell way short of expectations, but he never bitched and moaned. He put his head down and clawed out a career as a bottom 6 role player and leader on the team that drafted him. I don’t think he’s a good player, but I respect the hell out of his mindset.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I agree and I want him to believe he has more. To state it is because of opportunity or the coach not trusting him seems like pass the blame to someone else. Instead of that, figure out what it takes to make it as a player in the league… even if it means just being a role player.

IMO one of the hardest things for players to learn and adapt to is suddenly not being elite. So many of these kids have been elite their entire lives. Especially guys like Newhook and Jost. To get to the NHL and suddenly be below average is a real shot to the ego and sometimes that isn’t reconciled or dealt with well. Makes me have a lot of respect for Girgensons. Dude fell way short of expectations, but he never bitched and moaned. He put his head down and clawed out a career as a bottom 6 role player and leader on the team that drafted him. I don’t think he’s a good player, but I respect the hell out of his mindset.

Exactly. Newhook needs to take some ownership. Seems hes ok laying the blame on Jared. He should grow up.

 

[Ceremony]

I hoped Newhook could learn from Cogliano in terms of playing style/effectiveness but now we'll never know. Well not completely.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Kinda of funny though....I would have had a lot more time for him back in the David Jones, Brandon Yip, Wojtek Wolski era of Avalanche hockey. We weren't close to competitive and were just trying to find pieces that could work.

 

[Hasbro]

Would be beneficial for us if Newhook improves for Montreal anyway. Means things could improve developing youth on this team and convinces other teams Avalanche prospects have value in trades.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

I have to agree with Bedsy here. Pretty much every player that didn't work out were guys I was annoyed with or didn't have hope for anyway. I love me some hard working players and he does too. Which is why I think Drouin is doomed, but that's another discussion for another day.

Of course he has his flaws as a coach, his love for JTC being one, along with him playing Makar and Toews way too many minutes in the regular season, but overall, he's been pretty spot on.

What the Avs need to do is start drafting the LOC and Pavel types, so that when they do get looks in the NHL, they actually stick because they work their arses off and don't just float by on talent alone.

The long line of losers being drafted in the first 2 rounds needs to end. Their only real value is sometimes being used as trade chips to find the hard workers our Pro scouts actually know how to find.