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Around the League - 2023 Offseason Edition

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Balthazar said:
What is he going to do with a bunch on 35+ yo still signed at outrageous cap hits until the end of time?

Empty cupboard on top of that...There's no fix possible in Pittsburgh.
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To me... if I had security and buy in from ownership. It would be almost the perfect situation. You can have a complete blank slate rebuild where everything and everyone can be rebooted. Outside of expansion, you just don't get those opportunities often.

The issue I see is if there really is security and buy in to do just that. If ownership is willing to support 2-3 really bad years where foundational pieces leave and you start from scratch with a ~3-4 build time after the bad years. You could have the ultimate team building challenge. If I was a GM, I'd love an opportunity like that. Honestly much more so than inheriting a team coming off a Cup win like CMac is. Different set of expectations and a different challenge.
 
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henchman21 said:
To me... if I had security and buy in from ownership. It would be almost the perfect situation. You can have a complete blank slate rebuild where everything and everyone can be rebooted. Outside of expansion, you just don't get those opportunities often.

The issue I see is if there really is security and buy in to do just that. If ownership is willing to support 2-3 really bad years where foundational pieces leave and you start from scratch with a ~3-4 build time after the bad years. You could have the ultimate team building challenge. If I was a GM, I'd love an opportunity like that. Honestly much more so than inheriting a team coming off a Cup win like CMac is. Different set of expectations and a different challenge.
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Sure, but it won't be easy. Gotta trade Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Rust...all signed multiple years with full NMC and can't retain on them all.

Also I'm looking at capfriendly and I can't believe the Rackell contract. WTF is that?!
 
Balthazar said:
Sure, but it won't be easy. Gotta trade Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Rust...all signed multiple years with full NMC and can't retain on them all.

Also I'm looking at capfriendly and I can't believe the Rackell contract. WTF is that?!
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Adds to the challenge, but Malkin, Crosby, and Rust could all be gone by the summer of 25. Letang with be a legit LTIRetired. Rackell is really the only contract that could be a hold over in 2 years. The rest could be elsewhere and you have a near blank slate to deal with. That just doesn't happen often outside expansion.

I think it is a great job, if you have that backing. If you don't, then you wait 2-3 years for reality to set in and then go for that job.
 
With Pittsburgh, you need to understand you are in for two phases, and you need to be committed to that (and ownership as well obviously).

#1 is still trying to squeeze something out of Crosby, Letang and Malkin. Yes, it might be fools gold, but that's what the ownership has stated, all of those guys are still committed. You don't have much to work with but tough shit, need to try.

#2 is then do a long, hard rebuild after those guys are finally gone

I don't think that's necessarily a good landing spot for a guy like Dubas now. The #1 phase might still take 2-3 years, the #2 phase could be an over 5 year project. So would he like to spend almost a decade there?

Ottawa is the job that would make the most sense. Up coming team, and AFAIK Dubas grew up as a Sens fan anyway. If I'm him, I would wait to see if that job is opening up before taking that Pittsburgh gig. That Pens job I outlined might take 2 GMs, one to try one more push (what Hextall and Burke were hired to do there anyway), and then a 2nd one to do scorched earth like Chicago.
 
Tangs is gonna make a great head coach one day, but I think it might be a season or two too soon. If he's hired this year, he might flame out within a year or two before being great in a 2nd run.

Bruno would be a great hire, but it sounds like he's taking over for Ruff upon any struggle or the end of next season, and New Jersey doesn't want to let anybody interview him for a job this year (he's under contract for next season, so they don't have to let anyone interview him).
 
So apparently both Chris Johnston and Dreger have said today in their respective podcasts that Shanahan called the top-4 about the Dubas news, and said that he wanted to bring them all back (Shanahan that is). Interesting. Also Seravalli basically re-iterating what has already been brought up (though Friedman said this was not exactly the way it went down), Dubas wanted Shanahan to stop interfering with his work with his new contract and that didn't fly.

 
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LOFIN said:
So apparently both Chris Johnston and Dreger have said today in their respective podcasts that Shanahan called the top-4 about the Dubas news, and said that he wanted to bring them all back (Shanahan that is). Interesting. Also Seravalli basically re-iterating what has already been brought up, Dubas wanted Shanahan to stop interfering with his work with his new contract and that didn't fly.

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The more we learn, the more it sounds like the problem was Shanahan and Dubas would have made moves to change the core in the past but was blocked.
 
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The problem with Dubas is that he wasn't entirely bad, but he just decided to keep his "embarrassment of riches" forward core for the sake of everything else. Goaltending was bad, getting McCabe when they already had Holl and Brodie was hilarious, and the one that they should've traded due to signing Tavares (Nylander) is their best trading chip to improve that defensive core yet was their best player by far for the past two seasons. I don't blame Dubas for signing Tavares, I am very sure 98% of the teams in the league probably wanted him. I also dislike playing the hindsight game, but Tavares wasn't needed for that core and he especially wasn't needed if you weren't going to trade another forward for a weak area (like puck-moving ability).
 
S E P H said:
The problem with Dubas is that he wasn't entirely bad, but he just decided to keep his "embarrassment of riches" forward core for the sake of everything else. Goaltending was bad, getting McCabe when they already had Holl and Brodie was hilarious, and the one that they should've traded due to signing Tavares (Nylander) is their best trading chip to improve that defensive core yet was their best player by far for the past two seasons. I don't blame Dubas for signing Tavares, I am very sure 98% of the teams in the league probably wanted him. I also dislike playing the hindsight game, but Tavares wasn't needed for that core and he especially wasn't needed if you weren't going to trade another forward for a weak area (like puck-moving ability).
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Tbf it sounds like he was kind of shoehorned into that and wasn’t allowed to move the core 4.
 
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S E P H said:
The problem with Dubas is that he wasn't entirely bad, but he just decided to keep his "embarrassment of riches" forward core for the sake of everything else. Goaltending was bad, getting McCabe when they already had Holl and Brodie was hilarious, and the one that they should've traded due to signing Tavares (Nylander) is their best trading chip to improve that defensive core yet was their best player by far for the past two seasons. I don't blame Dubas for signing Tavares, I am very sure 98% of the teams in the league probably wanted him. I also dislike playing the hindsight game, but Tavares wasn't needed for that core and he especially wasn't needed if you weren't going to trade another forward for a weak area (like puck-moving ability).
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I feel like perhaps Dubas wanted to shake up the core but was not allowed? That is what media is making it seem like.

Re: Tavares. Agree on signing him and interested teams. However, if he was truly hellbent on signing in Toronto Dubas should have gotten that done for a couple million per season cheaper. Play hardball.

It seems like contract negotiations is where Dubas really struggled. He was taken to the cleaners by agents time and time again.
 
dahrougem2 said:
Re: Tavares. Agree on signing him and interested teams. However, if he was truly hellbent on signing in Toronto Dubas should have gotten that done for a couple million per season cheaper. Play hardball.
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You may not remember it but it was a huge seduction thing with teams lining up for Tavares. They couldn't play hardball at all and only pray that he'd say yes. JT met with a handful of teams (didn't return Sakic's phone call BTW) and I remember specifically Tavares' agent saying that money isn't even being discussed with any team and that JT would get his money regardless of which team he'd pick.

Little did Dubas know at the time that it would screw up the salary structure of his team. Young stars coming off their ELC watching an outsider taking 11M of cap space. This is where trouble started and no one saw it coming.
 
Balthazar said:
You may not remember it but it was a huge seduction thing with teams lining up for Tavares. They couldn't play hardball at all and only pray that he'd say yes. I remember specifically Tavares' agent saying that money isn't even being discussed with any team and that JT would get his money regardless of the team he'd pick.

Little did Dubas know at the time that it would screw up the salary structure of his team. Young stars coming off their ELC watching an outsider taking 11M of cap space. This is where trouble started and no one saw it coming.
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I remember that, but when it came out afterwards that Tavares was basically dead set on choosing Toronto the Leafs should have used that to their advantage.

Who knows, maybe things didn't come off that way during meetings with him and his team but in hindsight that contract never should have been THIS high.
 
dahrougem2 said:
I feel like perhaps Dubas wanted to shake up the core but was not allowed? That is what media is making it seem like.

Re: Tavares. Agree on signing him and interested teams. However, if he was truly hellbent on signing in Toronto Dubas should have gotten that done for a couple million per season cheaper. Play hardball.

It seems like contract negotiations is where Dubas really struggled. He was taken to the cleaners by agents time and time again.
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I think SJS and Dallas offered more than Toronto for Tavares IIRC.
 
Interesting, I would live as well if I was Dubas. It would make sense since he did make major TDL changes with everyone that wasn't a big-name player. I do think he will be a great GM one day, but this job was always a learning lesson for him.
 
dahrougem2 said:
I remember that, but when it came out afterwards that Tavares was basically dead set on choosing Toronto the Leafs should have used that to their advantage.

Who knows, maybe things didn't come off that way during meetings with him and his team but in hindsight that contract never should have been THIS high.
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Yea even if JT only wanted to play in Toronto there's no way Dubas was aware of that before singing the contract.

Following the Tavares signing Nylander decided to hold out then Dubas got taken to the cleaners by Matthews and then it was Marner's turn to hold out because he wanted the same as Matthews.

Dubas was put in a very tough situation. He would probably handle things differently today but it wasn't easy.
 
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