Around the League - 2023/24

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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This is gonna be the next big "Oh, yikes" contract
He's going to end up in Boston and pump up his numbers next to Pasta for the next 7 years. I think his impact will not meet his contract, but his numbers are likely going to be close next to Pasta.
 

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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Aug 5, 2003
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The Flatlands
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@Pokecheque sure sounds like the cheapest option

I mean, Tulsky was gonna get the gig in Carolina or somewhere else eventually. Yeah, I’m sure $$$ played into it, but he’s pretty much the best candidate for the job. That said, it’s too bad his boss is a cheap shyster who apparently is waaay more meddlesome than people have been led to believe. I read that Waddell publicly took heat for moves that were actually spurred by Dundon.
 
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Colorado Avalanche

No Babe pictures
Apr 24, 2004
29,286
9,564
Lieto
The funny thing is it also hurts NHL teams too.

The NHL really should've stepped in and just officially partnered with Capfriendly, rather than investing all that money trying to improve the NHL site and their crappy advance stats.
Halleluja, but this league blows. They don't know what's good for them.
 

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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I don't know if I trust Calgary to actually go down the re-build path, but getting a 1st, Kuzmenko, and some lotto tickets for Lindholm should be a good start if they do. If they were to retain half on Kuzmenko's contract, they could possibly get another 1st.

I certainly don't trust their ownership. They had a real opportunity to blow it up post-Iggy and chose not to do so (Bob Hartley played an indirect role in that) so I don't see them doing it now. If there was a time to rebuild/retool, it's now, before the new rink is built.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
64,659
49,881
I for one am interested to sit back and watch Carolina. They are doing things differently, and that is always interesting to see where it lands... good or bad or average.

For god's sake though, find a way to create chances in the middle of the damn ice!
 
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Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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Aug 5, 2003
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I for one am interested to sit back and watch Carolina. They are doing things differently, and that is always interesting to see where it lands... good or bad or average.

For god's sake though, find a way to create chances in the middle of the damn ice!
They need better centers for that, not to mention more speed/skill on the back end.
 

SirLoinOfCloth

Registered User
Apr 22, 2019
6,135
12,682
Colorado
As someone who never really went on CF, what is it that teams use it for?

I presume it's not that ability to build a team that fits under the cap, I would hope they have better ways to do that, so is it to gain access to player salaries? If so, where did CF get that data from. Friedman said that the NHL were not happy about CF making that data public, but where did they get it from? It can't purely have been word of mouth, right? There must have been some degree of automation or consumption of public or private APIs?
 
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henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
64,659
49,881
As someone who never really went on CF, what is it that teams use it for?

I presume it's not that ability to build a team that fits under the cap, I would hope they have better ways to do that, so is it to gain access to player salaries? If so, where did CF get that data from. Friedman said that the NHL were not happy about CF making that data public, but where did they get it from? It can't purely have been word of mouth, right? There must have been some degree of automation or consumption of public or private APIs?
The NHL gives very little to teams in terms of details around contracts unless prompted. There is a database that teams can access or link to that has basic stuff like years/AAV/etc. A lot of details are not fully available, though some are. Teams can also simply ask the league office for any data, but that's pretty much a last resort. A clear instance of this is Dadonov... he had a NTC. The NTC was known by Vegas, but Vegas was under the impression that one was not filed and thus the NTC was void for that year. When the truth was that it was filed by Ottawa and they didn't disclose the details to the Vegas... which they were required to do. The NHL basically keeps that communication between teams, or tries to. Which bonuses exist, salary in a given year, which clauses exist, etc. All those details are the trick.

What CF had was an easy database teams could access with that data. Bettman is famous for shitting on these sites saying they aren't confirmed data... but CF had it pretty close (like 98%). Which signing bonuses exists, who's contract is thus buyout proof, what the NMC/NTC clauses are, what ELC bonuses exist, etc etc. That's what teams paid for (and the UI... where the NHLs is basically an Access database). Somebody else to track all that data and give them a nice, clean API without having to have a staff member do it. There is something like 1300-1400 contracts in any given season, so there is a good amount to track... and teams are naturally cheap.
 
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Ceremony

blahem
Jun 8, 2012
113,616
16,310
The NHL gives very little to teams in terms of details around contracts unless prompted. There is a database that teams can access or link to that has basic stuff like years/AAV/etc. A lot of details are not fully available, though some are. Teams can also simply ask the league office for any data, but that's pretty much a last resort. A clear instance of this is Dadonov... he had a NTC. The NTC was known by Vegas, but Vegas was under the impression that one was not filed and thus the NTC was void for that year. When the truth was that it was filed by Ottawa and they didn't disclose the details to the Vegas... which they were required to do. The NHL basically keeps that communication between teams, or tries to. Which bonuses exist, salary in a given year, which clauses exist, etc. All those details are the trick.

What CF had was an easy database teams could access with that data. Bettman is famous for shitting on these sites saying they aren't confirmed data... but CF had it pretty close (like 98%). Which signing bonuses exists, who's contract is thus buyout proof, what the NMC/NTC clauses are, what ELC bonuses exist, etc etc. That's what teams paid for (and the UI... where the NHLs is basically an Access database). Somebody else to track all that data and give them a nice, clean API without having to have a staff member do it. There is something like 1300-1400 contracts in any given season, so there is a good amount to track... and teams are naturally cheap.
Did this post originally say the NHL/Bettman doesn't want contract info to be public? If so, why?
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
64,659
49,881
Did this post originally say the NHL/Bettman doesn't want contract info to be public? If so, why?
Bettman doesn't want it it to be public and claims privacy as the reason.

My personal tin foil hat is folded twice... first, nobody having the information gives an illusion of no cap (though any idiot knows differently). Second and probably the reason he really wants nobody to know... nobody but teams knowing everybody's salaries naturally keeps salaries down. Agents would know their clients, but that's it. They wouldn't have the full records from around the league. This leads to less comparables, especially for RFAs... since it would only have to be disclosed during mediation.
 
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Avs91

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Nov 3, 2013
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Bettman doesn't want it it to be public and claims privacy as the reason.

My personal tin foil hat is folded twice... first, nobody having the information gives an illusion of no cap (though any idiot knows differently). Second and probably the reason he really wants nobody to know... nobody but teams knowing everybody's salaries naturally keeps salaries down. Agents would know their clients, but that's it. They wouldn't have the full records from around the league. This leads to less comparables, especially for RFAs... since it would only have to be disclosed during mediation.

What it sounds like to me is that teams got lazy and stopped having 'in house' people (which cuts a cost) do the work manually because, technology.

As for salaries not being known, aren't journalists scooping them anyway? Right now I think it's a more a personal pet peeve of Bettman/league because imo it's not going to change a thing lol it'll just take a bit more work for agents to dig and get to the same place anyway, ie knowing, and also isn't that their job? To vet out league comparables in the interest of their client? Definitely correct me if wrong, I would think even competing agents benefit overall from sharing of information.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
64,659
49,881
What it sounds like to me is that teams got lazy and stopped having 'in house' people (which cuts a cost) do the work manually because, technology.

As for salaries not being known, aren't journalists scooping them anyway? Right now I think it's a more a personal pet peeve of Bettman/league because imo it's not going to change a thing lol it'll just take a bit more work for agents to dig and get to the same place anyway, ie knowing, and also isn't that their job? To vet out league comparables in the interest of their client? Definitely correct me if wrong, I would think even competing agents benefit overall from sharing of information.
Everything can be found out with enough effort and digging… it just won’t be as easy. Which is really the value add here, one easily useable and accessible database. Now we revert back to 2007 until a replacement is available (which it probably will be mid next season).
 
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LOFIN

Registered User
Sep 16, 2011
15,206
21,150
Everything can be found out with enough effort and digging… it just won’t be as easy. Which is really the value add here, one easily useable and accessible database. Now we revert back to 2007 until a replacement is available (which it probably will be mid next season).
Still, teams that were relying on it deserve what's coming to them. We are talking organizations that run on hundreds of millions of dollars, the fact that they are so dependent on a 3rd party freeware site is pretty amateurish.
 

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