Around the League - 2023/24

[MacKaRant]

It has to be a sinking feeling as a fan when your team hires an underwhelming head coach

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's high time we fire Bednar.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

.

 

[Ceremony]

When did the apparent criteria for the Hart trophy become "player who had the biggest gap to his next closest teammate in points"?

I mean, I know it was in 2018 when MacKinnon got jobbed out of one because New Jersey were a bunch of nobodies, but really. When? I feel like it came after the Selke was "the guy who scores but kills penalties" (Kesler, 2011) and after the Lady Byng became "who has the lowest penalty minutes" (O'Reilly, 2014) but I'm curious if I missed another, more egregious case.

 

[henchman21]

When did the apparent criteria for the Hart trophy become "player who had the biggest gap to his next closest teammate in points"?

I mean, I know it was in 2018 when MacKinnon got jobbed out of one because New Jersey were a bunch of nobodies, but really. When? I feel like it came after the Selke was "the guy who scores but kills penalties" (Kesler, 2011) and after the Lady Byng became "who has the lowest penalty minutes" (O'Reilly, 2014) but I'm curious if I missed another, more egregious case.

MacK - 2020 Lady Byng

I don't think the Hart has moved there otherwise McDavid and Drai wouldn't have won, nor would have Matthews.

 

[dmac7719]

When did the apparent criteria for the Hart trophy become "player who had the biggest gap to his next closest teammate in points"?

I mean, I know it was in 2018 when MacKinnon got jobbed out of one because New Jersey were a bunch of nobodies, but really. When? I feel like it came after the Selke was "the guy who scores but kills penalties" (Kesler, 2011) and after the Lady Byng became "who has the lowest penalty minutes" (O'Reilly, 2014) but I'm curious if I missed another, more egregious case.

Just a narrative some people like to push, cause their really isn't any other reason that can be brought up that would explain why Kuch should be above Mack for this season.

MacK - 2020 Lady Byng

I don't think the Hart has moved there otherwise McDavid and Drai wouldn't have won, nor would have Matthews.

Ya, the whole huge point gap seems to have been a one of (at least in recent years).
Cause if the point gap was the case, Mack would already have a Hart

 

[henchman21]

What I hate on the Hart now is that it has basically turned into a forward award. Zero defensemen and only one goalie winning since the lockout is absurd.

 

[LOFIN]

It has to be a sinking feeling as a fan when your team hires an underwhelming head coach

I don't really have an opinion about Travis Greene as a coach. Very meh.

However, Ottawa fans must be so happy to hear Friedman (and Nick Kypreos) saying that apparently they negotiated with Berube as well, and Berube turned Ottawa down because they didn't pay enough. Andlauer just as cheap as Melnyk?

 

[henchman21]

I don't really have an opinion about Travis Greene as a coach. Very meh.

However, Ottawa fans must be so happy to hear Friedman (and Nick Kypreos) saying that apparently they negotiated with Berube as well, and Berube turned Ottawa down because they didn't pay enough. Andlauer just as cheap as Melnyk?

So many people misunderstand the business. They simply think rich man = unlimited budget for everything. When really this is a business everywhere. With the financial struggles of Ottawa and not getting playoff revenue... there is a fiscal reality. It is a the same shit in Winnipeg despite having the richest owner in the league. The business still has to work. It is rare to have an owner like Foley that just gives zero shits about the financial side to win.

 

[S E P H]

Traffic is horrible everywhere along the Front Range from Colorado Springs all the way to Fort Collins. I live in Castle Rock, and it's awful here. Takes me 10-15 min just to drive the 3 miles from where I live in The Meadows across I -25 to Home Depot or Target. It routinely takes me 45 min to an hour to get to downtown Denver from here, and it's like 30 miles. Add in bad weather and it could take an hour and a half. My wife works at UCHeath in Aurora, and it takes her an hour to an hour and a half to drive home every day (mornings aren't as bad cause she leaves here by 6 am).

There are players who live all over the metro area, from the Cherry Creek area, to Downtown Denver, to up in the foothills west of 470, to the Parker area, etc. It doesn't matter where they put it, it's gonna suck to drive there. Putting all their facilities together in one area makes it more convenient for everyone, IMO. I just wish they'd get their shit in gear and get it built. South Suburban has been out dated for years. I believe I read a few months ago, that the Avs were only one of three teams that hadn't updated their practice facilities in the last 5-10 years.

Oh yeah, traffic has gotten like 5 times worse everywhere. I feel you about Castle Rock, I like their outlet mall and go there from time to time. The problem with your city is that you have all the roads which were made for a 20K town that now have to deal with a town of 55k+. At least in Highlands Ranch, they foresaw this predicament and made all the roads three lanes wide to deal with the traffic. But nobody that wants to have an adventure would want to live in Highland Ranch lol. Where I live is pretty good, but travelling around to different hospitals, I get to experience the worst at times. Anschutz is definitely bad, not necessarily because of the area, but I suspect that many people who work there take 225 and that's another nightmare road. And nobody wants to take Lightrail anymore due to the crime problem it has had for the past six months.

 

[Ceremony]

What I hate on the Hart now is that it has basically turned into a forward award. Zero defensemen and only one goalie winning since the lockout is absurd.

Defensemen have an award, forwards don't.

While I'm here, the solution to the occasional "should they modernise the awards and name them after Gretzky/Orr/etc" topic that comes up is to have two sets. One voted on by writers, one by players. Except the Byng, that should only be voted on by players.

 

[henchman21]

Defensemen have an award, forwards don't.

While I'm here, the solution to the occasional "should they modernise the awards and name them after Gretzky/Orr/etc" topic that comes up is to have two sets. One voted on by writers, one by players. Except the Byng, that should only be voted on by players.

Then create one (thought I'd argue Ross and Rocket are their awards and Norris is only a half step away from being Ross for defensemen). MVP should be MVP regardless of position. Varly should have won in 2014. Miller in 2010. Burns in 2017.

 

[S E P H]

Defensemen have an award, forwards don't.

While I'm here, the solution to the occasional "should they modernise the awards and name them after Gretzky/Orr/etc" topic that comes up is to have two sets. One voted on by writers, one by players. Except the Byng, that should only be voted on by players.

Yes, but forwards have the "best defensive forward" award, but defencemen do not. Very strange, there could be at least three to five additional awards that should be added to the NHL's list. I would personally "add" the best defenceman award in terms of defence (Lidstrom Trophy), the best offensive defenceman award for offence (Orr Trophy), and an "overall" best defenceman trophy (Keep it as the Norris). Then add the most valuable offensive forward trophy (ML66/WG99 trophy) and then the Hart goes to the MVP of the entire league regardless of position.

My thinking is that more trophies will prevent what is currently happening, which is the Writer Association voting for players who deserve a trophy because they were ridiculously good-looking this year. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Ceremony]

Varly should have won in 2014.

Disregard everything else, you're clearly right about everything.

 

[Pokecheque]

Defensemen have an award, forwards don't.

While I'm here, the solution to the occasional "should they modernise the awards and name them after Gretzky/Orr/etc" topic that comes up is to have two sets. One voted on by writers, one by players. Except the Byng, that should only be voted on by players.

So I guess two-way forwards just aren't eligible for the Hart either? Not goalies either?

The Hart does not specify position, nor should it. And just because a goalie can win the Vezina doesn't mean he shouldn't win the Hart. If he's deemed the best player in the league and/or the most valuable player to his team then he should get it.

 

[Chiarelli]

team owners didn’t become rich by running their businesses with huge deficits year after year.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

The problem with your city is that you have all the roads which were made for a 20K town that now have to deal with a town of 55k+.

It's near 85k now, and with the new developments to the south and east of town, it will be well over 100k within a year or two. Rumor is upwards of 145k.

They'll try and fix things infrastructure wise after the fact, but never make it big enough to handle the traffic. It's always reactionary, it's never preactionary. For instance, the extension they put in from Castle View High School to highway 85. They only made it 2 lanes. It already needs to be 4 lanes, and is a mess right before and after school, and during rush hour between 5 and 6 pm. Then the HS added on a couple years ago, and now there's not room to add more lanes. Plus, the overpass for HWY 85 was placed stupidly, and wont allow for additional lanes to be added to HWY 85 when they eventually expand it to 4 lanes from Sedalia. Just dumb.

 

[Ceremony]

So I guess two-way forwards just aren't eligible for the Hart either? Not goalies either?

The Hart does not specify position, nor should it. And just because a goalie can win the Vezina doesn't mean he shouldn't win the Hart. If he's deemed the best player in the league and/or the most valuable player to his team then he should get it.

I wasn't advocating one way or the other. I've posted before about why the voting for NHL awards is nonsensical.

To be completely honest, the non-statistical NHL awards are largely anachronisms. "Best defensive forward" is a concept that means something completely different now than it did in the 70s when it started. The Lady Byng wouldn't wrongly be a joke if it was still the 20s when players weren't always trying to kill each other. People wouldn't complain about the Norris going to defensemen who can score points because the way defensemen and teams play has fundamentally changed so much since the 50s. The notion of "most valuable player" is found across North American sports and although it's obviously nominally "the best player" the way it's worded means people online get to play semantics as part of their arguments. Why are there two awards for goalies? Surely the goalies/teams that concede the fewest goals in a season is the best one?

It obviously won't happen and I don't think it should anyway, but resetting player awards would be a good idea. Best forward, best defenseman, best goalie. What else does there actually need to be?

 

[LOFIN]

team owners didn’t become rich by running their businesses with huge deficits year after year.

The difference between the salary of a good coach vs bad coach is miniscule in comparison to what a good coach vs a bad coach will do to the rest of the revenue when a team gets to the playoffs vs sucks all year. It's not like we are talking about paying Berube 15mil vs Green 1,5mil. Bednar is one of the best coaches in the game. His extension and salary raise comes into effect starting next season. He's going to be making 4.75mil vs 2.5mil he's making now. The salary difference between a good coach and a bad coach in the NHL is an average 3rd liners cap hit. If you can't invest in that...

 

[Pokecheque]

The difference between the salary of a good coach vs bad coach is miniscule in comparison to what a good coach vs a bad coach will do to the rest of the revenue when a team gets to the playoffs vs sucks all year. It's not like we are talking about paying Berube 15mil vs Green 1,5mil. Bednar is one of the best coaches in the game. His extension and salary raise comes into effect starting next season. He's going to be making 4.75mil vs 2.5mil he's making now. The salary difference between a good coach and a bad coach in the NHL is an average 3rd liners cap hit. If you can't invest in that...

Could not agree more. I can't imagine any of the rumored candidates in Berube, Evason, and Julien were demanding Babcock money. I'd even be surprised if any of them asked for more than $3 million annually. Going cheap just seems silly, no matter what kind of financial situation the Sens are facing this year. There's other ways to trim the fat.

Also, why the f*** did they take pains to say that Green will be the head coach for the entirety of his contract? Don't they know they automatically just jinxed themselves?

 

[henchman21]

The difference between the salary of a good coach vs bad coach is miniscule in comparison to what a good coach vs a bad coach will do to the rest of the revenue when a team gets to the playoffs vs sucks all year. It's not like we are talking about paying Berube 15mil vs Green 1,5mil. Bednar is one of the best coaches in the game. His extension and salary raise comes into effect starting next season. He's going to be making 4.75mil vs 2.5mil he's making now. The salary difference between a good coach and a bad coach in the NHL is an average 3rd liners cap hit. If you can't invest in that...

Could not agree more. I can't imagine any of the rumored candidates in Berube, Evason, and Julien were demanding Babcock money. I'd even be surprised if any of them asked for more than $3 million annually. Going cheap just seems silly, no matter what kind of financial situation the Sens are facing this year. There's other ways to trim the fat.

Also, why the f*** did they take pains to say that Green will be the head coach for the entirety of his contract? Don't they know they automatically just jinxed themselves?

I'm a little torn on where to be cheap. On one hand, the difference in coaching abilities between the bottom 20-25 coaches is so small that you could probably pick randomly out of 10 and still end up with similar results. If we are talking a 2-3 point difference in capabilities... a good third liner might actually be more valuable. I'd argue a legit backup goalie is worth the price difference. On the other hand, if you can grab an elite coach, you'd be kinda stupid not to. If Rod the Bod ends up available, you back that Brink's truck up. He's getting you in the playoffs and worth every penny.

I think they did that to show the inmates can't run the asylum, but it is rather dumb. Accept the shelf life and if it doesn't work, you move on. IMO they should have pushed for 2 years with an option for a third. In that case, you simply take the chance that his 2nd full time NHL gig will be his best (and there are stats backing that)... and that the difference between Berube and Green simply wasn't worth the extra.

 

[Chiarelli]

The difference between the salary of a good coach vs bad coach is miniscule in comparison to what a good coach vs a bad coach will do to the rest of the revenue when a team gets to the playoffs vs sucks all year. It's not like we are talking about paying Berube 15mil vs Green 1,5mil. Bednar is one of the best coaches in the game. His extension and salary raise comes into effect starting next season. He's going to be making 4.75mil vs 2.5mil he's making now. The salary difference between a good coach and a bad coach in the NHL is an average 3rd liners cap hit. If you can't invest in that...

ya but it's not that simple. You pay 30% more for a coach and their assistants, then your athletic trainers, then the staff at the facility, now you might as well pay for that practice facility, etc. Where do you draw the line? The difference between highest to lowest operating budget in the league this year was 36 million. Project that over 10 or 20 years. Is half a billion dollars the difference?

 

[Balthazar]

The Hart should be for the season's MVP period.

Not the most valuable player to his team.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Balthazar]

They couldn't f*** up this much could they?

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

They couldn't f*** up this much could they?

Well, something similar happened last year with Chicago getting leaked as the winner earlier in the day. So...