GDT: Around the League 2023-2024 "Off Season??!! What off season??!!"

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

You have created this narrative that the NHLPA was not only onside with this but was a good part of why it happened without any evidence to support that. Yet we have players like Stamkos, McDavid and Tkachuck obviously lamenting the decision. In fact they seemed to be caught off-guard by the announcement. Allan Walsh called the decision "gutless". There is no bigger cheerleader for the NHLPA than Allan Walsh. if Octagon's players had wanted this do you really think he would have said that. That agency represents 66 players under contract to the NHL. In fact this Forbes article pretty much captures the nature of the reaction to the "business decision".

NHL Sparks Criticism For Barring Players From Wearing Pride Jerseys On Ice During Warmups

Several players, some Russian-born, and teams cited Russian anti-gay laws and religious beliefs for choosing not to wear Pride jerseys.

www.forbes.com

I actually agree with you that individuals and corporations have a right to choose what they do or do not support. But if you are a consumer driven company you also need to be prepared to be criticized by those that consume your product if they disagree with your decision. That said I don't support personal attacks against players with differing opinions. Though if they choose to use there celebrity to make overt statements in support of discriminatory behaviour such as was the case with Bass, they need to be prepared for the consequences. To be clear, I do not believe that this was the case with any of the seven NHL players who chose not to wear the jerseys.

It’s been reported by Friedman and others that the new NHLPA head was bringing this issue up with Bettman. Whether it’s 1 player out of 800 or 100 players out of 800 whose refusing, the unions job is to represent them all and labor laws are labor laws whether you like it or not.

Bottom line, it’s not in their contracts, it’s against the law and the union represents all players not just the ones it wants to.

So between the union protecting a handful of players from receiving massive online abuse and the league not wanting controversy, it’s the only logical conclusion I can see, even if the league has once again shot themselves in the foot using the gun of unintended consequences.

Again, respect your viewpoint.

 

[Paralyzer]

You have created this narrative that the NHLPA was not only onside with this but was a good part of why it happened without any evidence to support that. Yet we have players like Stamkos, McDavid and Tkachuck obviously lamenting the decision. In fact they seemed to be caught off-guard by the announcement. Allan Walsh called the decision "gutless". There is no bigger cheerleader for the NHLPA than Allan Walsh. if Octagon's players had wanted this do you really think he would have said that. That agency represents 66 players under contract to the NHL. In fact this Forbes article pretty much captures the nature of the reaction to the "business decision".

NHL Sparks Criticism For Barring Players From Wearing Pride Jerseys On Ice During Warmups

Several players, some Russian-born, and teams cited Russian anti-gay laws and religious beliefs for choosing not to wear Pride jerseys.

www.forbes.com

I actually agree with you that individuals and corporations have a right to choose what they do or do not support. But if you are a consumer driven company you also need to be prepared to be criticized by those that consume your product if they disagree with your decision. That said I don't support personal attacks against players with differing opinions. Though if they choose to use there celebrity to make overt statements in support of discriminatory behaviour such as was the case with Bass, they need to be prepared for the consequences. To be clear, I do not believe that this was the case with any of the seven NHL players who chose not to wear the jerseys.

All 7 of them definitely weren't being villainous or doing it to discriminate a group. All their statements weren't hateful to the pride community. But people took use of this situation to throw insults and hateful words to them. Just like people love to hate the Christian community because of a few bad apples that ruin it for the entire group, same can be said with any community/culture/group. Not everyone is to be labelled the same. There just isn't enough understanding in this society. Too many finger pointing.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Some good perspective by Stamkos.

He’s 100% right but the media and reporting will always try to create controversy because controversy sells.

The anonymous social media participants then go absolutely apeshit targeting people and piling on with reprehensible online bullying.

That I am afraid is the reality. It’s a sad commentary of the world we live in today.

 

[Fourier]

All 7 of them definitely weren't being villainous or doing it to discriminate a group. All their statements weren't hateful to the pride community. But people took use of this situation to throw insults and hateful words to them. Just like people love to hate the Christian community because of a few bad apples that ruin it for the entire group, same can be said with any community/culture/group. Not everyone is to be labelled the same. There just isn't enough understanding in this society. Too many finger pointing.

I actually agree with everything you say. But I don't think you change this by ignoring the issue.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I actually agree with everything you say. But I don't think you change this by ignoring the issue.

But they are not ignoring the issue. The cause nights continue same as before with the only change being warmup jersies which aren’t being worn by players. Players who choose can be more involved and I think you’ll see that.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He’s 100% right but the media and reporting will always try to create controversy because controversy sells.

The anonymous social media participants then go absolutely apeshit targeting people and piling on with reprehensible online bullying.

That I am afraid is the reality. It’s a sad commentary of the world we live in today.

I mean... This is pretty much any person of notoriety. This is hardly an issue contained to just hockey. I may not like him but the things people say about our country's leader are... something.

 

[Fourier]

It’s been reported by Friedman and others that the new NHLPA head was bringing this issue up with Bettman. Whether it’s 1 player out of 800 or 100 players out of 800 whose refusing, the unions job is to represent them all and labor laws are labor laws whether you like it or not.

Bottom line, it’s not in their contracts, it’s against the law and the union represents all players not just the ones it wants to.

So between the union protecting a handful of players from receiving massive online abuse and the league not wanting controversy, it’s the only logical conclusion I can see, even if the league has once again shot themselves in the foot using the gun of unintended consequences.

Again, respect your viewpoint.

I would sincerely like to see some link to where this was reported by Friedman. I have looked and cannot find it.

That said none of the players were forced to participate so I don't see where any labour laws were violated. In fact, with Philly a lot of the activities associated with Pride Night were player initiated. And if the goal was to avoid controversy they pretty much got the opposite out of this. Virtually all of the positive comments I can find come from the US far right which was a big danger in this sort of decision. And no I am not saying that anyone who supports the decision is a bigot but rather about where significant support has been coming from publicly. Almost all of the other coverage of the decision has been negative.

Here is the only statement that I can find that Walsh made re the jersey issue. It does confirm nor contradict your claim.

NHLPA boss Marty Walsh on Pride Night jersey boycotts: "I think it's really important as a League, and in locker rooms, that we're inclusive. We probably have some work to do there too." Laid out his support of LGBTQ+ community as a politician, with emphasis on Trans community.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I mean... This is pretty much any person of notoriety. This is hardly an issue contained to just hockey. I may not like him but the things people say about our country's leader are... something.

I agree.

But the hockey player is being put in a position to participate in a social issue that is not of his own choosing by his employer that he is not contractually or legally obligated to perform.

That’s the key difference.

 

[Paralyzer]

I actually agree with everything you say. But I don't think you change this by ignoring the issue.

You're right. But unfortunately that's a far bigger topic than what a few posters can solve, and it could take 100's of years before that can be put to rest.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I would sincerely like to see some link to where this was reported by Friedman. I have looked and cannot find it.

That said none of the players were forced to participate so I don't see where any labour laws were violated. In fact, with Philly a lot of the activities associated with Pride Night were player initiated. And if the goal was to avoid controversy they pretty much got the opposite out of this. Virtually all of the positive comments I can find come from the US far right which was a big danger in this sort of decision. And no I am not saying that anyone who supports the decision is a bigot but rather about where significant support has been coming from publicly. Almost all of the other coverage of the decision has been negative.

Podcast and Twitter. Others have reported this as well. I’m not making it up.

Labor laws are pretty clear on forcing employees to participate on social issues. So it is voluntary however players get subjected to insane public abuse for not participating.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I agree.

But the hockey player is being put in a position to participate in a social issue that is not of his own choosing by his employer that he is not contractually or legally obligated to perform.

That’s the key difference.

But part of the problem also comes from the other side who conflate any sort of LGBTQ advocacy as condoning pedophilia and the like. If you were being accused of such I can imagine your response wouldn't be pretty.

 

[Fourier]

You're right. But unfortunately that's a far bigger topic than what a few posters can solve, and it could take 100's of years before that can be put to rest.

Of course. Change happens over time. As I previously stated, had one suggested in 1972 that every player in baseball wear the #42 I suspect it would not have gone over well.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

But part of the problem also comes from the other side who conflate any sort of LGBTQ advocacy as condoning pedophilia and the like. If you were being accused of such I can imagine your response wouldn't be pretty.

True but that isn’t the issue.

Either way the cause nights will continue as I am sure will the controversy.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

True but that isn’t the issue.

Either way the cause nights will continue as I am sure will the controversy.

Because of what I just said. Any sort of support for that group is seen as condoning pedophilia. We really shouldn't be at this point but the angriest voices are often the ones that are heard no matter how ridiculous they are.

There shouldn't be any contrvoversy here but some made it that way.

 

[joestevens29]

It’s been reported by Friedman and others that the new NHLPA head was bringing this issue up with Bettman. Whether it’s 1 player out of 800 or 100 players out of 800 whose refusing, the unions job is to represent them all and labor laws are labor laws whether you like it or not.

Bottom line, it’s not in their contracts, it’s against the law and the union represents all players not just the ones it wants to.

So between the union protecting a handful of players from receiving massive online abuse and the league not wanting controversy, it’s the only logical conclusion I can see, even if the league has once again shot themselves in the foot using the gun of unintended consequences.

Again, respect your viewpoint.

Yet when it comes to players getting cheap shotted the union does very little to protect the guys getting injured.

 

[Fourier]

Podcast and Twitter. Others have reported this as well. I’m not making it up.

Labor laws are pretty clear on forcing employees to participate on social issues. So it is voluntary however players get subjected to insane public abuse for not participating.

I am not suggesting you are making it up. I honestly would like to hear what was said since I cannot find anything to confirm this.

I have never heard anything suggesting that any celebratory program was forced on a player. And yes I understand that we live in a time where public figures are subject to abuse. That is in itself deplorable. But I don't actually believe that protecting these few players was the league's motivation in the decision. Nor do I believe that the decision they came to would be the only way to do so.

 

[joestevens29]

I am not suggesting you are making it up. I honestly would like to hear what was said since I cannot find anything to confirm this.

I have never heard anything suggesting that any celebratory program was forced on a player. And yes I understand that we live in a time where public figures are subject to abuse. That is in itself deplorable. But I don't actually believe that protecting these few players was the league's motivation in the decision. Nor do I believe that the decision they came to would be the only way to do so.

I don't think it was ever forced upon anyone. Just players felt they were forced to as if they didn't participate then they'd get crucified in the media.

Really no different at my company. We have a lot of different events and if you miss it or you don't wear the color shirt they ask you to, then people start asking you why and you look like you are against the cause.

 

[Fourier]

I don't think it was ever forced upon anyone. Just players felt they were forced to as if they didn't participate then they'd get crucified in the media.

Really no different at my company. We have a lot of different events and if you miss it or you don't wear the color shirt they ask you to, then people start asking you why and you look like you are against the cause.

Again, is the proper answer to never do anything? It irks me greatly that there is no room today for civil discord concerning differing opinions, but by ignoring tough issues you run the danger of passively supporting the status quo.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Again, is the proper answer to never do anything? It irks me greatly that there is no room today for civil discord concerning differing opinions, but by ignoring tough issues you run the danger of passively supporting the status quo.

And tolerance is the absolute bare minimum. When even that's too much there's something seriously wrong.

 

[K1984]

He’s 100% right but the media and reporting will always try to create controversy because controversy sells.

The anonymous social media participants then go absolutely apeshit targeting people and piling on with reprehensible online bullying.

That I am afraid is the reality. It’s a sad commentary of the world we live in today.

Stamkos nailed it.

When the Provorov hysteria started I remember on Sportsnet they played ominous music over a slow mo of Provorov walking and then capped it off with some sensationalist headline.

All they have to do is ignore. Nobody notices, nobody cares, everyone wins, the jerseys continue. But they just can’t. Then get upset when it gets taken away. Every action has a reaction and the mob/media can’t seem to ever get this.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Here is a 100% NHL NHLPA voluntary social initiative just announced this morning.

Cause issues not going away, but instead are now 100% voluntary. Instead of focusing on not wearing warmup jerseys for 20 minutes focus on this.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Again, is the proper answer to never do anything? It irks me greatly that there is no room today for civil discord concerning differing opinions, but by ignoring tough issues you run the danger of passively supporting the status quo.

But thats my point, they haven't cancelled the cause nights nor the jerseys. Players just wont wear them. And see my above post, a new 100% Voluntary initiative was just launched that didn't exist before. Education and awareness are still happening.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Because of what I just said. Any sort of support for that group is seen as condoning pedophilia. We really shouldn't be at this point but the angriest voices are often the ones that are heard no matter how ridiculous they are.

There shouldn't be any contrvoversy here but some made it that way.

The loony left and religious right take all the oxygen in the room 100% of the time. There seems to be no more middle ground or civil discourse.

Either way, I think we agree that the NHL shot itself in the foot and there is plenty of room for tolerance and education, we just disagree on the methodology. Personally I don't see the big deal with wearing the jerseys but I will always put personal choice for something like that and my utter abhorrence for bullying whether online or face to face, first. But I believe we are both correct in the end.

 

[joestevens29]

Stamkos nailed it.

When the Provorov hysteria started I remember on Sportsnet they played ominous music over a slow mo of Provorov walking and then capped it off with some sensationalist headline.

All they have to do is ignore. Nobody notices, nobody cares, everyone wins, the jerseys continue. But they just can’t. Then get upset when it gets taken away. Every action has a reaction and the mob/media can’t seem to ever get this.

Unfortunately that's not how the media works. Not just sports related. All about money and go with the story that will generate the because reaction.

 

[K1984]

Here is a 100% NHL NHLPA voluntary social initiative just announced this morning.

Cause issues not going away, but instead are now 100% voluntary. Instead of focusing on not wearing warmup jerseys for 20 minutes focus on this.

The Hockey Diversity Alliance is another one that is 100% player driven.