Around the League 2022-23 season

[kilowatt]

If what Emily Smith says is all true, I don't believe it means the NHL fosters a culture of misogyny.

File a complaint against the player, but why try to drag the NHL into it?

I think the prevalence of these issues in totality point to the NHL fostering a culture of misogyny. This is hardly even a scandal at this point, just another in a long line of sexual abuse accusations.

 

[Fishhead]

They’re arguably better now than they were. They lost Gaudreau and Tkachuk and gained Huberdeau, Kadri, and Weegar. Crazy offseason for Calgary.

Chemistry is a weird thing. They could be better if they fit in, worse if they dont. I think Calgary is a huge wildcard, especially with Sutter if the new guys don’t mesh. I think we will know in a month if they will struggle or not.

 

[kingsfan28]

Chemistry is a weird thing. They could be better if they fit in, worse if they dont. I think Calgary is a huge wildcard, especially with Sutter if the new guys don’t mesh. I think we will know in a month if they will struggle or not.

For sure. You subtract that much talent, then add a bunch of new guys and shake up your team, you may not have everyone clicking. Sometimes it takes only 1 new guy to mess everything up.

 

[Herby]

For every cat there is like 10 guys who can't do it. But his numbers were absolutely crazy in Jr.

Normally, I would say 10 years ago a small player like him wouldn't make it. But with his skillset I think he would succeed in any era.

But no one says that every small player is going to make it. The issue is the ones with elite game-changing ability are still significantly under-drafted despite the fact that the league has changed away from the dead puck era that many fans grew up watching and many current executives and scouts played in. Teams are now built with 3 scoring lines. The tightening of obstruction and other penalties (automatic calls for stick in the hand) has increased the importance of players who feast on the PP. The improvements in goaltending technique, coaching and equipment has in turn resulted in fewer players in the NHL that are consistently able to beat goaltenders on unscreened shots (especially from distance). The ones who can should have higher value than they do in many NHL organizations. And this is not always true of just smaller players, look at Kaliyev and even Kyle Connor, two other guys who have that type of shooting ability.

To many NHL teams are passing on players like DeBrincat, Hughes and Caufield in drafts. NHL teams, unlike NFL ones seem to focus to much on things that players lack, while ignoring superstar traits (Hughes skating and game sense, DeBrincat and Caufield's shooting ability) while instead drafting players without any star traits because many NHL teams love vanilla.

It shouldn't be this difficult, anyone with two eyes could have seen the ridiculous ability that Hughes and Caufield had playing in one of the NHL's best feeder leagues, it was no surprise to anyone that they both seamlessly jumped into the NHL as very good players. Hughes was even more insane because he was a late birthday and was drafted out of college, so the USHL/competition excuse didn't even apply to him.

 

[King'sPawn]

Regarding DeBrincat, I agree he was drafted way later than he should have been - but there was also the legitimate concern of him being a product of McDavid then Strome, who was highly touted at the time.

It wasn't all exclusively because of his size. It's not like the Kings didn't witness this first-hand 10 years prior with Dany Roussin playing with Crosby.

 

[Steve Zissou]

I have the same problem with the ladies with my...well you know

Lt Dan you sure you aren't mixing up your flicks when it comes to your username?

 

[KINGS17]

I think the prevalence of these issues in totality point to the NHL fostering a culture of misogyny. This is hardly even a scandal at this point, just another in a long line of sexual abuse accusations.

Really? How do we know it is more prevalent in the NHL than in it is in the NFL, NBA, MLB, or any other profession. Fostering would mean it is encouraged or promoted by the league. I don't think that is true.

Are there other individual players in the NHL who are misogynists? Sure there probably are others. Do I expect the NHL to stamp them out or change their attitudes in their personal lives? No.

 

[Herby]

Regarding DeBrincat, I agree he was drafted way later than he should have been - but there was also the legitimate concern of him being a product of McDavid then Strome, who was highly touted at the time.

It wasn't all exclusively because of his size. It's not like the Kings didn't witness this first-hand 10 years prior with Dany Roussin playing with Crosby.

I could have understood had his draft year been the same as McDavid’s (it almost was, he was a late birthday), And many here on hf did think he was a product of McD. But his draft year was post McDavid and he was still a pretty dominant finisher. The puck explodes off his stick, that doesn’t change based on who he plays with.

But young players playing with other elite young players is a dilemma for scouts especially With so many guys now being drafted out of the NTDP. It’s hard to tell who is a product of who, unfortunately I think the Kings kind of fell victim to that a couple years ago.

 

[Fishhead]

I could have understood had his draft year been the same as McDavid’s (it almost was, he was a late birthday), And many here on hf did think he was a product of McD. But his draft year was post McDavid and he was still a pretty dominant finisher. The puck explodes off his stick, that doesn’t change based on who he plays with.

But young players playing with other elite young players is a dilemma for scouts especially With so many guys now being drafted out of the NTDP. It’s hard to tell who is a product of who, unfortunately I think the Kings kind of fell victim to that a couple years ago.

Yeah he absolutely tore it up that last season. I knew the kings wouldn't take him, but was disturbed that Chicago did. Didn't foresee them completely falling off the cliff and blowing it up like they did. I figured he would just be part of the next wave.

 

[Herby]

Yeah he absolutely tore it up that last season. I knew the kings wouldn't take him, but was disturbed that Chicago did. Didn't foresee them completely falling off the cliff and blowing it up like they did. I figured he would just be part of the next wave.

I think DeBrincat kind of falls into that Jeff Carter, Mike Richards type category where he is great if he is your #3 or #4 guy and you can win a championship that way. But he is not a franchise player type superstar that you need to win a championship in the modern NHL, and he was probably an obstacle in Chicago obtaining those types of player.

I loved the trade for Ottawa. If DeBrincat really wants to win and be surrounded by great players around his age there is no better spot.

 

[kilowatt]

Really? How do we know it is more prevalent in the NHL than in it is in the NFL, NBA, MLB, or any other profession. Fostering would mean it is encouraged or promoted by the league. I don't think that is true.

Are there other individual players in the NHL who are misogynists? Sure there probably are others. Do I expect the NHL to stamp them out or change their attitudes in their personal lives? No.

The Board of Directors for Hockey Canada literally resigned today amid sexual assault cover up allegations.

There are numerous allegations and scandals across the NHL and other hockey organizations regarding sexual abuse, many of which you can read about here.

In at least two of these cases (the Blackhawks scandal and the most recent allegation against Ian Cole), either players in the dressing room or members of the organization at large at least knew about the abuse.

I don't see how anyone can see these issues and say everything's going fine.

 

[KINGS17]

The Board of Directors for Hockey Canada literally resigned today amid sexual assault cover up allegations.

There are numerous allegations and scandals across the NHL and other hockey organizations regarding sexual abuse, many of which you can read about here.

In at least two of these cases (the Blackhawks scandal and the most recent allegation against Ian Cole), either players in the dressing room or members of the organization at large at least knew about the abuse.

I don't see how anyone can see these issues and say everything's going fine.

I wouldn't say these individual cases are fine. I also wouldn't say being a hockey player in the NHL makes it more likely that a man will commit sexual assault. I think these cases are highly publicized, but I do wonder if they are any more prevalent in the NHL (and are they fostered by the NHL), than they are in society at large.

 

[Herby]

Laf still just doesn't jump out at you like a #1 overall pick is expected to do, we are in year 3 now. He is not a baby anymore, maybe this is just who he is. Not a bad player, but it's looking less and less likely he is a franchise player.

Fox is incredible though, I wish the Kings would have DD watch video of Fox playing on the PP to try and get Drew to do more of what he does. He is just able to see the game in slow motion the way the great ones do.

 

[King'sPawn]

I could have understood had his draft year been the same as McDavid’s (it almost was, he was a late birthday), And many here on hf did think he was a product of McD. But his draft year was post McDavid and he was still a pretty dominant finisher. The puck explodes off his stick, that doesn’t change based on who he plays with.

But young players playing with other elite young players is a dilemma for scouts especially With so many guys now being drafted out of the NTDP. It’s hard to tell who is a product of who, unfortunately I think the Kings kind of fell victim to that a couple years ago.

I understand. That's why I said Strome after McDavid. After McDavid, he was playing alongside Dylan Strome, the No. 3 overall pick from 2015; Strome outscored DeBrincat his draft year, which is why the whole "being carried by others" was mentioned.

 

[Steve Zissou]

 

[Statto]

I wouldn't say these individual cases are fine. I also wouldn't say being a hockey player in the NHL makes it more likely that a man will commit sexual assault. I think these cases are highly publicized, but I do wonder if they are any more prevalent in the NHL (and are they fostered by the NHL), than they are in society at large.

I’ve been in and around dressing rooms full of players that were mostly from NA and played at levels up to the NHL. Are they all misogynistic, no of course not. However it is significantly more prevalent than in any other environment I’ve ever been in… massively so. I’m talking over several seasons and it being no different each year even with significant player turnover.

Put it this way the whole piece about him bragging to team mates and nobody saying a word against it is completely plausible, based on what I’ve seen. Obviously I don’t know if it’s true but it’s not a crazy notion. I decided that if my daughter ever showed any interest in hockey I’d drop my involvement with the sport and walk away from it. I wanted her nowhere near it. The team later folded anyway and she couldn’t be less interested if she tried anyway.

 

[King'sPawn]

New Jersey sending their No 2 overall pick to the AHL



I know it's different circumstances (already played pro in Europe, is a defenseman), but I'm interested in what others think, particularly @Herby

 

[Herby]

New Jersey sending their No 2 overall pick to the AHL



I know it's different circumstances (already played pro in Europe, is a defenseman), but I'm interested in what others think, particularly @Herby

I think it's slightly different for a defenseman vs a forward, but it's still unorthodox. If the plan is to play him the entire season there, I think he is better off back in Europe. If it's for a month or two and then back to the NHL I think it's fine. The AHL is not an ideal place for teenage players to play, some have turned out fine, but a lot haven't.

When the Kings put teenagers in the AHL it was a season-long thing with no expectation of making an NHL roster out of camp. They pulled Turcotte from a proven development path and an NHL factory program and missed out on the sophomore season that benefits so many college players, I think that was crippling for his development. With Byfield I think it just pushed back his development a season but I don't think it did as much damage as the Turcotte one long-term. I just wish we had a more competent QB last season for a playoff team instead of the sub-replacement player.

 

[Sol]

I think it's slightly different for a defenseman vs a forward, but it's still unorthodox. If the plan is to play him the entire season there, I think he is better off back in Europe. If it's for a month or two and then back to the NHL I think it's fine. The AHL is not an ideal place for teenage players to play, some have turned out fine, but a lot haven't.

When the Kings put teenagers in the AHL it was a season-long thing with no expectation of making an NHL roster out of camp. They pulled Turcotte from a proven development path and an NHL factory program and missed out on the sophomore season that benefits so many college players, I think that was crippling for his development. With Byfield I think it just pushed back his development a season but I don't think it did as much damage as the Turcotte one long-term. I just wish we had a more competent QB last season for a playoff team instead of the sub-replacement player.

I mean QB needs to look like a second overall player this year or he will just be another player that will have a high draft selection to wind up in the NHL

 

[Schmooley]

I mean QB needs to look like a second overall player this year or he will just be another player that will have a high draft selection to wind up in the NHL

I think by the end of the year he will start playing the part. Next year he will look like the 2nd overall you are hoping for. At the moment take joy in the glimpses of high end talent and the little things hes doing on the wall and defensive zone while learning to be a pro.

 

[BringTheReign]

Really? How do we know it is more prevalent in the NHL than in it is in the NFL, NBA, MLB, or any other profession. Fostering would mean it is encouraged or promoted by the league. I don't think that is true.

Are there other individual players in the NHL who are misogynists? Sure there probably are others. Do I expect the NHL to stamp them out or change their attitudes in their personal lives? No.

I rarely wade into things like on hockey message boards, but why not? These are public figures who represent hundred million to billion dollar corporations. I am not even talking about the moral argument here (though it should be the most relevant one). I am talking about the economic liability of this disgusting, scumbag behavior coming out. These players are brought up through the lens of pro hockey starting at 15-16 years old. The NHL and other organizations (like Hockey Canada) are absolutely partially responsible for educating and creating a culture where this isn't acceptable. They have an immense amount of influence in how these young men develop into adults, especially when many of them are leaving their parents and living with billets, national dev programs, European lower pro leagues, etc as teenagers.

I think the argument "this is a society at large problem, not an XYZ league problem" completely ignores the influence these large leagues have. Yes, of course it is a society at large problem, but who do we think kids are looking up to? Ideally they'd be taking notes from strong role models in their own lives, but we all know the pull pro athletes have. This doesn't just apply to pro athletes, or young athletes on pro trajectories. If the NHL or NBA player does it and gets away with it, the high school varsity kid is going to notice that. It's a sad reality, but it's a real one. There's a great (fictional) book called Beartown about a hockey team and town that grapples with this exact issue, highly recommend it.

 

[Sol]

I think by the end of the year he will start playing the part. Next year he will look like the 2nd overall you are hoping for. At the moment take joy in the glimpses of high end talent and the little things hes doing on the wall and defensive zone while learning to be a pro.

Full transparency it’s hard for me when Stutzle just looks much better and he was the guy I wanted. I know he won’t be Stutzle level but it’d make me happy if he was at least close to it. Byfield really needs to turn up. He’s rarely ever looks special and that worries me. I knew Stutzle was the better player before the draft but it’s hard. I think too many people on these boards and even in the organization fell in love with the idea of Byfield and ignored some of the issues that was prevalent at the time. Oh well. Sucks but it is what it is. Many players don’t have the Gabe Vilardi renaissance. Bad WJC. And didn’t really turn up before making the team. He’s been very underwhelming regardless of his age.

I feel like Kaliyev for example picked it up very quickly on what he needed to do and changed. Byfield doesn’t look much different than last year

 

[Herby]

I mean QB needs to look like a second overall player this year or he will just be another player that will have a high draft selection to wind up in the NHL

I think this is a fair statement. And I said as much in this thread about Laf, eventually there has to be a step made, and if it's not made by year 3 for players taken this high it is a concern.

But Byfield also didn't get the benefit of playing 56 games in the NHL as an 18 year old like Laf did, and is also 10 months younger. So it's not exactly the same thing, QB had to try develop in the middle of a playoff race on a team that was playing a bunch of close, low-scoring games.

If Byfield has a season similar to what Hughes had in his D+2 (which I think he will) he is on a decent path to being what I think he can be in the NHL (which is likely a PLD type player, maybe a pinch better). But ofcourse saying Byfield won't be the next Malkin or Matthews will be taken as calling him a "bust" by the dishonest crowd.

 

[Sol]

I think this is a fair statement. And I said as much in this thread about Laf, eventually there has to be a step made, and if it's not made by year 3 for players taken this high it is a concern.

But Byfield also didn't get the benefit of playing 56 games in the NHL as an 18 year old like Laf did, and is also 10 months younger. So it's not exactly the same thing, QB had to try develop in the middle of a playoff race on a team that was playing a bunch of close, low-scoring games.

If Byfield has a season similar to what Hughes had in his D+2 (which I think he will) he is on a decent path to being what I think he can be in the NHL (which is likely a PLD type player, maybe a pinch better). But ofcourse saying Byfield won't be the next Malkin or Matthews will be taken as calling him a "bust" by the dishonest crowd.

The thing is I’ve accepted he won’t be a Stutzle at all. I am just hoping that we would have seen at least something to indicated there’s something special in him. We’ve only seen like 5 plays in 60 games.

 

[Fishhead]

The thing is I’ve accepted he won’t be a Stutzle at all. I am just hoping that we would have seen at least something to indicated there’s something special in him. We’ve only seen like 5 plays in 60 games.

He made a few really good plays last night, and tried some that would have been highlight worthy. He was rewarded for that so hopefully it sticks. 40+ points this year should be the goal.