Around the League 2019-20 Pt. 2

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The fact that Gretzky was able to stay healthy and have the productive longevity he did should be accounted for in the caliber of player he was. I've heard Adam Oates talk about this as "not tolerating unnecessary contact" in reference to him being a skills coach for guys like Schiefele and Stamkos. Oates himself is a great example as far as longevity and durability goes. I take your point that McDavid, Orr, and Lemieux may be 'better' players, but if you expand the definition of who is 'better' to include the knack to play the game in a way that extends their durability and productivity, which I believe you should as career's are measured by their entirety, Gretz wins out.

You can still make the HHOF with a high peak (e.g. Lindros), but to be the greatest player to ever play you need the full body work of work taken into account and can't just normalize to Lemieux or Orr's career length.


I agree with that, I always say staying healthy is a skill, and especially for players at the top of the game when you're comparing legacies, duration matters. You never know what happens if a guy stays healthy, he may actually tail off early. That's why I say Gretz is the "greatest," he did it for a long time while being a target. We'll never know what could have been for Orr, Lemieux. My point is only that I think those three are 'better'--a large assumption on my part that I think had they had full careers they'd be looked upon more favorably than Gretzky. However--I do think if McDavid plays until 35 he has the opportunity to rewrite everything. His dominance over his peers is something to behold and I think the best is yet to come.

Like I said it's a hot take and I don't have much to support it, haha.
 
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I agree with that, I always say staying healthy is a skill, and especially for players at the top of the game when you're comparing legacies, duration matters. You never know what happens if a guy stays healthy, he may actually tail off early. That's why I say Gretz is the "greatest," he did it for a long time while being a target. We'll never know what could have been for Orr, Lemieux. My point is only that I think those three are 'better'--a large assumption on my part that I think had they had full careers they'd be looked upon more favorably than Gretzky. However--I do think if McDavid plays until 35 he has the opportunity to rewrite everything. His dominance over his peers is something to behold and I think the best is yet to come.

Like I said it's a hot take and I don't have much to support it, haha.



I think we have to look at what Gretzky throughout all stages of his career.

As a rookie he tied for the league lead in scoring with 137 points as a scrawny 19 year old. Yes he had Blair McDonald who had a career high 94 points that year, followed by Weir with 66 and Lumly and Callahan with 56. He basically lit up the league as a 19 year old with little to no help.


Years 3 to 8 in the league he averaged over 200 points a year

If you take Gretzky from 19 to 27 he averaged 2.40 points a game or 192 points a year on a 80 game schedule.

During that same time Kurri averaged 1.38 points a game for an average of 110 points a year on a 80 game schedule

Messier averaged 1.16 for 93 points a game in the same years. Messier did go on to have a career high 129 points 2 years after Gretzky left, Gretzky led the league in scoring that year with 142 points



Gretzky goes on to turn 30 and puts up another 163 points, 72 more then his closest teammate Luc Robitaille


Now if at this time Gretzky suffers an injury and is not able to finish his career with 2142 points in 847 games.

His prime years 19 to 30 he averaged 2.53 ppg = an average of 202 points a year.

I think some of us forget just how dominant he was as he played an extra 10 years which diminished his numbers drastically.

I think if Lemieux and Orr would have had a 20 year career they too would have had father time catch up with them. We got what we got in their prime years and it was incredible but not as incredible as what Gretzky did in his. Gretzky then carried on 10 years past his prime still being at or near the top of the league even when he was playing on some miserable teams.

In short what all 3 did was spectacular. I still think Gretzky has the best 5 year stint this league will ever see and has nearly every all time record because he was able to persevere and last.


Not even going to comment on Connor, If he is still stunning the league in 10 years then he can get added into this discussion.
 
I’m not going to repost the crap that he wrote on social media, but I’m sure glad Brendan Leipsic is no longer a King. What a f***ing idiot.

More details about the garbage he spewed can be found on the main board discussion.
Brendan Leipsic's Instagram: calls Dowd & Hathaway 'losers', seems to be pro-drugs, & insults women.

Makes sense how he's bounced around so much; glad he's not in a Kings sweater anymore, and I hope Pearson whoops his ass if they ever share NHL ice again (but I'm guessing Leipsic won't be getting that chance after this).
 
I’m not going to repost the crap that he wrote on social media, but I’m sure glad Brendan Leipsic is no longer a King. What a f***ing idiot.

More details about the garbage he spewed can be found on the main board discussion.
Brendan Leipsic's Instagram: calls Dowd & Hathaway 'losers', seems to be pro-drugs, & insults women.

Well he's not going to play another game this season and likely not anytime soon after this. Now I'm really glad the Kings didn't retain him.
 
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I’m not going to repost the crap that he wrote on social media, but I’m sure glad Brendan Leipsic is no longer a King. What a f***ing idiot.

More details about the garbage he spewed can be found on the main board discussion.
Brendan Leipsic's Instagram: calls Dowd & Hathaway 'losers', seems to be pro-drugs, & insults women.
I found out in the late 90s how much coke and womanizing goes on in the NHL. Had a a friend that liked visiting players in their hotels. She had stories. Try to separate it from the game itself but I stopped idolizing dudes after that.
 
i don't f*** with this TMZ bullshit tbh. if pearson wants to do something about leipsic's comments, that's on him. why anyone besides him is commenting is beyond me. mind your own.
 
I liked Leipsic as a player, at the time I wanted the Kings to keep him since he brought some jam and scoring ability to the bottom six. I do think private messages should be just that, private. Most people could be made to look like real assholes by making that stuff public.

That being said, there was a reason the Kings moved on from him and it wasn't his play on the ice.
 
f*** that ass-hat Brenden Leipsic.
What a moron. It’s gonna be real awkward when the Caps start playing again. Wonder if they’ll healthy scratch him for the rest of the season/playoffs. While he has some talent, it isn’t a stretch that the Caps should be able to easily find a replacement for him (11 pts in 61 games).
I hope he’s working hard on his Russian language skills during this pause, because he might be KHL-bound for next season.
 
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I do think private messages should be just that, private. Most people could be made to look like real assholes by making that stuff public.

Said out loud while having a beer out with your buddies is one thing, but being stupid enough to put it down on paper in a group text is a different ball game.

Why do you think I *attempt* to not say stupid shit here on HF!? :sarcasm:
 
It would've taken zero energy to not be a giant piece of shit, so I have no sympathy for Leipsic. This being private or public doesn't matter. Thinking those things and voicing them shows his character–or lack thereof. All this "that's just how the boys talk" stuff is garbage. If that's how your friends talk, tell them it's not cool. Talking trash about players on other teams is one thing, talking trash about your own teammates is another, objectifying women is low class, and making fun of someone's wife... yikes.

But let's see what comes of this. I think it's easy to fall into toxic thinking when it's what you're used to, and you are able to, and you're encouraged to do so. This might be a good wake up call for him. Hopefully he can take a good, long look in the mirror and decide what kind of person he wants to be.
 
This Pronger interview is fascinating.


  • Right off the bat he goes over the 1993 draft and how San Jose (which was managed by Dean Lombardi at the time), interviewed him and told Pronger that they had no plans to draft him because they already had Mike Rathje and Doug Zmolek. The Sharks had the #2 overall pick and traded down to get their man, Viktor Kozlov. Ouch.
  • Pronger mentions that when he was with the Blues, he thought he was going to be dealt to the Kings in a trade that involved Lubomir Visnovsky. He'd wind up being dealt to the Oilers instead for Eric Brewer, Doug Lynch and Jeff Woywitka.
  • He was also nearly dealt to Toronto for Tomas Kaberle and a couple of firsts and another player, but the deal breaker for Toronto was that the Blues insisted on Alex Steen, so the Leafs backed out. Years later the Leafs would trade Steen to the Blues for Carlo Colaiacovo and Lee Stempniak.
 
You have to be an idiot to post anything controversial on Facebook or Instagram. Why even have an account if you are a professional athlete?
 
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I mean, the guy is a good enough player to stick on the teams he's played on. This clearly isn't an isolated incident when he can't stick on 6 teams in 6 years.
 
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