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Around the League 2018-2019 Part 3

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KINGS17 said:
Not what I said, At All.
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Dude, that is literally what you are saying. You are saying that you would rather the Blues throw in the towel on being competitive(because dumping a player of Petro's caliber means you are at the minimum re-tooling) rather than sign Petro to an 8 year deal. All because you are scared of those last two years. That is madness, when you have a contender you don't give up a high end number 1 defenseman over a few years at the end of his deal. Again, the goal is to win the cup, if you are already close to it, you don't worry about 7 years down the road. It is very hard to get to that level, as we have seen from Edmonton, Buffalo, New Jersey, Arizona. You don't even know if that contract will be a hindrance, yet you are already saying it will be a bad idea.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
What? Muzzin missed an entire season. Season and a half, actually.

"When Muzzin was 16, his hockey career was derailed after he suffered a herniated disc. He underwent surgery to repair the precarious ailment and wound up missing more than a year of action.

“For a little bit it kind of felt that hockey was done for me,” he said. “It was a difficult time and it made me not take hockey for granted.
“When you’re that young and out for over a year with a back injury it’s a difficult situation to deal with.”

But Muzzin had belief in the surgeon and the recovery plan. He returned in time to play the final 37 games for the 2006-07 Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds and two rounds of the playoffs. He exhibited enough for the Pittsburgh Penguins to select Muzzin in the fifth round (141st overall) of the 2007 draft.

But the teenager failed to demonstrate enough in the next two seasons of junior for the Penguins to sign him to an entry-level contract. Therefore, Muzzin re-entered the draft in 2009, but his name wasn’t called as he sat through seven rounds and 211 selections."


Long and winding path leads to veteran status for Muzzin
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Hockeydb doesn’t track his stats or games played before the 06/07 season. I don’t know what’s going on there. I didn’t know he missed the entire 05/06 season. I thought he only missed half of 06/07.

In any case, Muzzin is the exception, not the rule.
 
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Eight year deals to 28/29 aged players are killer, should avoid them. The next lockout needs to have contract max term brought down to four years for UFA and Five years for team drafted players.
 
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SettlementRichie10 said:
Hockeydb doesn’t track his stats or games played before the 06/07 season. I don’t know what’s going on there. I didn’t know he missed the entire 05/06 season. I thought he only missed half of 06/07.

In any case, Muzzin is the exception, not the rule.
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But my point is there is no rule. Are there a ton of examples of junior-aged players having back injuries or surgeries? There's Scott Barney, but hard to say if he would have been an impact player, and it's not like he was out of hockey, he lit up the AHL for years. There's Muzzin. There's Olli Juolevi, guess jury's still out on that one. If anything, in each case, the guy went on to play pro hockey. Vilardi would be the exception if he doesn't play at all. But again, uncertainty, not rules.
 
tomd said:
Good organizations and good GM's work around those issues which are FAR into the future. Superstars get both $ and term. That's reality. If you don't like it go follow football. But if you continue to follow hockey, don't make what are very weak excuses for this team's lack of performance. They had a really bad year last year but that doesn't mean that with the right changes they can't be much better next year. Believe it or not, they can get better, get younger, get faster all at the same time.
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Name a team that has handed out a $10M+ cap hit, 8-year contract and won a Stanley Cup.
 
KINGS17 said:
Wrong! Next!

Chicago Blackhawks 2014 Salary Cap

Chicago Blackhawks Stanley Cup Champs 2014-15

Player with highest cap hits:

Toews $6.3M - 8.9% of cap
Kane $6.3M - 8.9% of cap
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Might wanna check again, Toews and Kane signed that 10 million contract on......wait..here, I will show you,

STANDARD CONTRACT

COMPARE THIS CONTRACT
LENGTH: 8 YEARS
EXPIRY STATUS: UFA
SIGNING TEAM: Chicago Blackhawks
VALUE: $84,000,000
C.H.%
q.svg
: 15.22
SIGNING DATE: July 9, 2014

And then they won the cup in 2014-2015, like you said.....

Anything else?
 
Last season for the Kings:

Kopitar $10M - 12.8% of cap
Doughty $7M - 8.9% of cap, going over 12% for the upcoming season.

Now, you understand why the Kings will fail to be contenders for the next several years, or longer. The cap hits would almost be acceptable if the contracts didn't have such a long term that they can't be traded, not to mention the NMCs attached to them.

Imagine having Kopitar on a six year deal instead of eight and Blake calling up Sakic and saying, "Look Joe, we'll retain $3M in cap hit on Kopitar for the last two seasons of his contract, and you get to have the best 1B center in the NHL for $7M a season for the next two years. Say it with me Joe, you get Anze! But it's going to cost you."
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
Might wanna check again, Toews and Kane signed that 10 million contract on......wait..here, I will show you,

STANDARD CONTRACT

COMPARE THIS CONTRACT
LENGTH: 8 YEARS
EXPIRY STATUS: UFA
SIGNING TEAM: Chicago Blackhawks
VALUE: $84,000,000
C.H.%
q.svg
: 15.22
SIGNING DATE: July 9, 2014

And then they won the cup in 2014-2015, like you said.....

Anything else?
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When they signed doesn't mean a damn thing. It's the cap hits in effect at the time they last won. I know you love to obfuscate everyone's point, but you're wrong. Find a team that has won a cup with a player making a $10M cap hit.

Oh, on the anything else bit. Yeah, providing you with facts is a waste of my time.
 
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KINGS17 said:
When they signed doesn't mean a damn thing. It's the cap hits in effect at the time they last won. I know you love to obfuscate everyone's point, but you're wrong. Find a team that has won a cup with a player making a $10M cap hit.

Oh, on the anything else bit. Yeah, providing you with facts is a waste of my time.
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I guess one can say the same, how about this,

You tell me the last GM to let a premier player WALK away WITH NOTHING in return, given the assumption that the player wanted to stay....let me know the last time a GM let a player walk because the player wouldn't take a 5 year deal or 6 year deal....

Ready...go
 
KINGS17 said:
Find a team that has won a cup with a player making a $10M cap hit.
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It's almost as if you believe 10 million cap hits are the NORM, and they have been around as long as the cap itself......I know you are looking at this from your playstation GMing ways, but man, you gotta get with reality. In reality, GMs do not let star players walk at 27-28 year olds over 2-3 years on term, not if the GM wants to continue to work in the league....

As far as cap hits, I would say Ovechkin's 9.5 is the closest one, considering that 10 million caps hits have only been around for what, 4-5 years? I think Kane/Toews might have been the first ones to sign those 8 digit cap hits.....
 
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GoldenBearHockey said:
I guess one can say the same, how about this,

You tell me the last GM to let a premier player WALK away WITH NOTHING in return, given the assumption that the player wanted to stay....let me know the last time a GM let a player walk because the player wouldn't take a 5 year deal or 6 year deal....

Ready...go
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Actually, no you can't say the same. When you provide some facts to support your position, I will let you know.

When have I ever said the Kings should have let Kopitar, Doughty or any top notch NHL player walk away for nothing in return? A: Never
 
KINGS17 said:
Actually, no you can't say the same. When you provide some facts to support your position, I will let you know.

When have I ever said the Kings should have let Kopitar, Doughty or any top notch NHL player walk away for nothing in return? A: Never
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Really? you literally just said yesterday that if Kopitar didn't like the offer....adios Kopitar.....
 
BigKing said:
Again, you start negotiating while they are under contract so saying adios means you could trade him.
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Fair enough, show me a star player that is 28-29, that teams traded as a UFA a year before their deal is up.......it does happen occasionally, but top 5 position players? Not really, GMs are fired for less....

What Kings17 is advocating would work in a gaming world where cap space is key, and players are robots, but we are dealing with reality, and he refuses to deal with it, so where do you go from there?

It's fine and dandy to say NO TEAM HAS EVER WON A CUP WITH A 10MILLION YEAR CAP HIT, when 10 million cap hits have been around for 4 years.....that's like saying no team has ever lost a cup from offisde review......not taking into account, that it's only been around 2-3 years etc
 
kings11 said:
It would have been the Capitals but they circumvented the hell out of the Cap.. Ovie @ $9.5 is close..
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Agreed Ovechkin is close. He was slightly over 12% of their cap when they won last year. Very talented player with a contract to match. Glad he finally won a cup.
 
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