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Around the League 2018-2019 Part 3

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KINGS17 said:
Let Marner go to Europe. He isn't worth what he is asking.
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Maybe not but if you're in a fervent market and you still don't have room to sign him and your only strategy is "screw it let him go to europe" then yeah I'm gonna question your GMing.

Even hardballers know how to make appropriate concessions. The hardline employer-holds-all-the-cards faux tough-negotiator act is a yawn vs. all the other results he's had so far.

Like sure to some degree it's just the Marner camp flexing/posturing but we've already seen this movie with Nylander, Dubas is f***ing lost.
 
KINGS17 said:
Let Marner go to Europe. He isn't worth what he is asking.
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What do you think he is asking? I'd like to know for a frame of reference, because I think the guy who has led his team in scoring by 6 points the last 2 seasons is worth quite a bit.

I honestly believe the biggest mistake by Dubas was signing Tavares and not locking up Matthews and Marner long term around 10 million.
 
crassbonanza said:
What do you think he is asking? I'd like to know for a frame of reference, because I think the guy who has led his team in scoring by 6 points the last 2 seasons is worth quite a bit.

I honestly believe the biggest mistake by Dubas was signing Tavares and not locking up Matthews and Marner long term around 10 million.
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There were some ridiculous asks reported but those are pretty obviously negotiation points. I do think there are legitimate criticisms and concerns about committing that kind of money to a scoring winger who may have had a peak season, especially when the roster has other major holes...but when you go blow your wad early by signing Tavares and barely addressing the defense while setting the salary bar so high, that's a self inflicted shotgun wound.
 
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They went for it in the ELC window. Just like Edmonton and Winnipeg. Didn't work, and now they just have too many guys making too much money. To sign Tavares, before you have your two big players signed, after you already went through a hassle with a third young player, who isn't as good as the main two young guys, was probably a mistake. Sometimes you have to take your shot though.

What's interesting is whenever they figure out the Marner stuff, after this season, they might have to rebuild basically their entire defense. With a #1 goalie that will be a UFA a year after that.

Bit of a tough spot. They might have to take the hit and trade someone, probably at a talent-loss, for a couple depth players making $4-5m. Which, could make them better overall, or it could be the new Gilmour non-call against Gretzky, where they never let it go.

Salary caps, what can you do?
 
KingsFan7824 said:
They went for it in the ELC window. Just like Edmonton and Winnipeg. Didn't work, and now they just have too many guys making too much money. To sign Tavares, before you have your two big players signed, after you already went through a hassle with a third young player, who isn't as good as the main two young guys, was probably a mistake. Sometimes you have to take your shot though.

What's interesting is whenever they figure out the Marner stuff, after this season, they might have to rebuild basically their entire defense. With a #1 goalie that will be a UFA a year after that.

Bit of a tough spot. They might have to take the hit and trade someone, probably at a talent-loss, for a couple depth players making $4-5m. Which, could make them better overall, or it could be the new Gilmour non-call against Gretzky, where they never let it go.

Salary caps, what can you do?
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I dunno, I mean, I was told it was easy as long as you didn't overpay veterans for past performance, you just have to pay guys before you win since that's when they're worth it and...oh.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
I dunno, I mean, I was told it was easy as long as you didn't overpay veterans for past performance, you just have to pay guys before you win since that's when they're worth it and...oh.
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I think the approach Edmonton took was interesting with Draistl and McDavid. The problem is once a team's best players get paid the other players on the roster try to negotiate off those numbers, which management should not allow. It was an interesting experiment, but doesn't look like it is going to work out.

If you are going to pay anyone on their second contracts it should be guys like McDavid and Matthews. If you are the GM you can't let the agents of other players come in and negotiate off those numbers, which is what happened in Toronto. Matthews is a better player than Marner in my opinion, and fills a much more valuable role.

At this point the Leafs would be better off trading Marner in a two-for-one, or three-for-one deal and filling some of their holes. They would have better depth and be a more balanced team. They arguably have two of the top five centers in the NHL. Trade Marner to add a solid winger and a solid defenseman.
 
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Apparently Marner's speaking with Switzerland is just to train. Either way, it doesn't look good when you promise the fans you won't lose any core players and your hands are tied with one of them.
 
King'sPawn said:
Apparently Marner's speaking with Switzerland is just to train. Either way, it doesn't look good when you promise the fans you won't lose any core players and your hands are tied with one of them.
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Maybe the Leafs should consider Matthews, Tavares, and Reilly as their core players. They might not have the star power, but be a better team if they move Marner out for more depth. Any competent winger playing with Matthews or Tavares is going to put up decent numbers.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
I dunno, I mean, I was told it was easy as long as you didn't overpay veterans for past performance, you just have to pay guys before you win since that's when they're worth it and...oh.
Click to expand...
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crassbonanza said:
What do you think he is asking? I'd like to know for a frame of reference, because I think the guy who has led his team in scoring by 6 points the last 2 seasons is worth quite a bit.

I honestly believe the biggest mistake by Dubas was signing Tavares and not locking up Matthews and Marner long term around 10 million.
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according to the Toronto Star, Marner wants 5 yrs/11.6 M per
 
I'm surprised at how many FA's still aren't signed. Flyers still have 2 to ink, Konecky (supposedly close to signing at 2/3 yrs , 4.5 per, which is fair)
and Provorov, which is getting ugly. His agent wants way too much and Flyers aren't budging. And until Werenski and McAvoy sign, I don't think they will.
 
deeshamrock said:
I'm surprised at how many FA's still aren't signed. Flyers still have 2 to ink, Konecky (supposedly close to signing at 2/3 yrs , 4.5 per, which is fair)
and Provorov, which is getting ugly. His agent wants way too much and Flyers aren't budging. And until Werenski and McAvoy sign, I don't think they will.
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Part of the problem is as soon as a GM for any team makes a mistake and overpays for a player, the agents of other players want to negotiate off that number as if it is the new market price. GMs are going to have to learn to reject that kind of thinking.
 
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KINGS17 said:
I think the approach Edmonton took was interesting with Draistl and McDavid. The problem is once a team's best players get paid the other players on the roster try to negotiate off those numbers, which management should not allow. It was an interesting experiment, but doesn't look like it is going to work out.

If you are going to pay anyone on their second contracts it should be guys like McDavid and Matthews. If you are the GM you can't let the agents of other players come in and negotiate off those numbers, which is what happened in Toronto. Matthews is a better player than Marner in my opinion, and fills a much more valuable role.

At this point the Leafs would be better off trading Marner in a two-for-one, or three-for-one deal and filling some of their holes. They would have better depth and be a more balanced team. They arguably have two of the top five centers in the NHL. Trade Marner to add a solid winger and a solid defenseman.
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Yeah, I don't see it as a problem with Matthews and McDavid. They're matthews and McDavid. They essentially get blank checks like Crosby. The TO problem was blowing the wad on Tavares with other holes there and Marner knowing he gets to hold them hostage because of it.

I know we rarely agree on these things but yeah the smart thing to do would be to try to get some premium playable assets for Marner at this point. I mean, two elite Cs is better than elite C and W imo anyway, so in a sense it was the 'right' move, but the wrong time without locking others up and with roster holes, setting a bad precedent (and the salary bar as we both alluded to), and without a guarantee for Marner...while also looking like a chump with his other negotiations anyway. Nylander just gave us the blueprint for how to steamroll Dubas, Marner just gets to borrow the playbook and ring up additional $. How soft does Dubas look if two of his three "big 3" RFAs sit out until Winter before taking big checks anyway?
 
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deeshamrock said:
according to the Toronto Star, Marner wants 5 yrs/11.6 M per
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Well, that seems like a fair position to begin their negotiation. That is the exact contract that Matthews received and Marner has outscored him by 27 points over the past two seasons, Marner also logged 111 minutes of PK time last season while Matthews only logged 2. I get that there is a premium payed to centers, but I also understand why Marner would ask for the same contract as Matthews.
 
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