Around the League 2018-2019 Part 3

[Little Psycho]

 

[KINGS17]

Over a decade of consistency didn't solve it. a 92 point season didn't solve it. Leading the playoffs in scoring twice, multiple Cups, Selkes, hart-caliber seasons didn't solve it.

Just hoping he's one of those players that's remembered more fondly in hindsight.

Give me a break. There was not a decade of consistency. Kopitar has many not so great seasons during his career.

Kopitar has been a great player for the Kings, but he isn't Crosby, McJesus, Ovechkin, or anyone else in that class. Right now, today, he isn't a top 20 center in the NHL. He has a lot to prove this coming season.

 

[kingsholygrail]

many not so great seasons during his career.

Which seasons were those? Last season being a given.

 

[BigKing]

Which seasons were those? Last season being a given.

2015. 2017. 2019.

I'm not joining the argument since I still think he is a Top 20 center, but he has not been consistent since 2014 except for consistently having a poor season followed by a good one.

When I say "poor", it is poor for his standards and then definitely poor for the money he is pulling down. It is no coincidence that the three season's worth of missed playoff appearances since 2014 coincide with those poor seasons.

 

[kingsholygrail]

2015. 2017. 2019.

I'm not joining the argument since I still think he is a Top 20 center, but he has not been consistent since 2014 except for consistently having a poor season followed by a good one.

When I say "poor", it is poor for his standards and then definitely poor for the money he is pulling down. It is no coincidence that the three season's worth of missed playoff appearances since 2014 coincide with those poor seasons.

He was a Selke finalist in 2015.

 

[King'sPawn]

Give me a break. There was not a decade of consistency. Kopitar has many not so great seasons during his career.

Kopitar has been a great player for the Kings, but he isn't Crosby, McJesus, Ovechkin, or anyone else in that class. Right now, today, he isn't a top 20 center in the NHL. He has a lot to prove this coming season.

His points/gm the first ten seasons since joining the league:
.85
.94
.80
.99
.97
.93
.89
.85
.81
.91

That's a decade. That's averaging 66 pts+ per game over an 82 game season while being a top defensive center.

If you want to argue he's not Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, etc, sure. But if that's your barometer of greatness, then you're doomed to be disappointed every season unless the Kings win the lottery.

 

[KINGS17]

His points/gm the first ten seasons since joining the league:
.85
.94
.80
.99
.97
.93
.89
.85
.81
.91

That's a decade. That's averaging 66 pts+ per game over an 82 game season while being a top defensive center.

If you want to argue he's not Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, etc, sure. But if that's your barometer of greatness, then you're doomed to be disappointed every season unless the Kings win the lottery.

Let's not just go by points, which include a number of secondary assists. Kopitar had some unacceptable seasons in terms of goal scoring and putting shots on goal. He also had seasons where he failed miserably on the power play by staying glued to the half wall. People want to know why he isn't consistently considered to be among the best centers of the game. Well, that's why. He just doesn't impose his will on his opponents with enough frequency.

I grow tired of debating this. You all know who Kopitar is and why he is regarded to be a notch below the other great centers in the game.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I grow tired of debating this.

But you didn't even debate. You said many seasons and I asked which ones and only another user bothered to throw some years out there.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Let's not just go by points, which include a number of secondary assists. Kopitar had some unacceptable seasons in terms of goal scoring and putting shots on goal. He also had seasons where he failed miserably on the power play by staying glued to the half wall. People want to know why he isn't consistently considered to be among the best centers of the game. Well, that's why. He just doesn't impose his will on his opponents with enough frequency.

I grow tired of debating this. You all know who Kopitar is and why he is regarded to be a notch below the other great centers in the game.

I don't intend to go down this rabbit hole again with you, but suggesting the team's leading scorer for over a decade is just some dude schlubbing around collecting secondary assists is about as dishonest as I've seen you in regards to Anze and that's saying something.

Kopitar's seasons by primary points percentage (goals + 1st assists):
2018-19: 80%, 85% at ES
2017-18: 72%, 80% at ES
2016-17: 65%
2015-16: 68% 75% at ES
2014-15: 72%
2013-14: 76%, 80% at ES
2012-13: 67%, 80 at ES
2011-12: 65%, 72% at ES
2010-11: 75%

And before you go "SEE 65%" realize that even Crosby has similar seasons and some other superstars have sub 60% seasons (including a few EK seasons of barely 50%). Anze is regularly in the McDavid/Malkin area of primary points %. Which given his deployment should be impressive but like I said above, some people won't be pleased by him and it clearly is what it is at this point.

If you have to dig to 'secondary assists' to bash a guy's career, you're looking too hard and just proving my point.

 

[kingsboy11]

Let's not just go by points, which include a number of secondary assists. Kopitar had some unacceptable seasons in terms of goal scoring and putting shots on goal. He also had seasons where he failed miserably on the power play by staying glued to the half wall. People want to know why he isn't consistently considered to be among the best centers of the game. Well, that's why. He just doesn't impose his will on his opponents with enough frequency.

I grow tired of debating this. You all know who Kopitar is and why he is regarded to be a notch below the other great centers in the game.

You seem more surly than normal about Kopitar today. Look no one is going to deny his good season/bad season flip flop he's had since 2014, but those good seasons in between were imo his best seasons that he's ever had. So yeah its incredibly frustrating, but when you step back and look at the entire career he has been one of the more consistent centers in the league this past decade.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You seem more surly than normal about Kopitar today. Look no one is going to deny his good season/bad season flip flop he's had since 2014, but those good seasons in between were imo his best seasons that he's ever had. So yeah its incredibly frustrating, but when you step back and look at the entire career he has been one of the more consistent centers in the league this past decade.

When you look at Kopitar's games played per season, points, and general play from season to season when he entered the league, even considering his 'down' seasons of the last few years, he's still one of the most consistent players in the league. Saying otherwise is a serious lack of perspective on what other players do yearly, never mind time missed with injuries, etc.

 

[raswilliam]

honestly, this is all that matters to me. Everything else is a bonus

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I fully support giving Kopitar credit for 2007-2012. I feel he was a very consistent center during this time who ultimately sacrificed a lot of points during his young career to play a stellar two way game.

The stretch Kopitar became an inconsistent player to me was the 2013 playoffs. He completely disappeared, and the Kings were carried to the WCF largely on the backs of Richards and Quick. Then Bolland rung Richards’ bell for the final time and that was that.

Since that bizarre stretch of disappearance, Kopitar has been a textbook inconsistent player - at least offensively. That seems pretty obvious with just a cursory glance at his stats.

I said it then and I’ll say it now: 18/19 was Kopitar’s career year. He will never again approach those numbers. Everything went right for him that year, and frankly, he deserves the praise. It will go down as his capstone campaign. Pity the rest of the team was so bad around him (sans Doughty and a resurgent Brown).

 

[YP44]

2015. 2017. 2019.

I'm not joining the argument since I still think he is a Top 20 center, but he has not been consistent since 2014 except for consistently having a poor season followed by a good one.

When I say "poor", it is poor for his standards and then definitely poor for the money he is pulling down. It is no coincidence that the three season's worth of missed playoff appearances since 2014 coincide with those poor seasons.

Can someone look and see if those down years correlate with years he had a kid?

 

[BigKing]

He was a Selke finalist in 2015.

Just residuals from winning the Cup the year before and being hyped. Look at his point totals. Missed the playoffs by a point.

 

[KINGS17]

You seem more surly than normal about Kopitar today. Look no one is going to deny his good season/bad season flip flop he's had since 2014, but those good seasons in between were imo his best seasons that he's ever had. So yeah its incredibly frustrating, but when you step back and look at the entire career he has been one of the more consistent centers in the league this past decade.

I am not surly about Kopitar. People post something along the lines of being unable to believe he isn't considered a top 20 center in the NHL heading into the coming season, and it is obvious that his inconsistent performance is the reason why he isn't highly regarded by the pundits.

One of these every other seasons he isn't going to bounce back. That's a fact. It's just a question of how soon it happens.

At this point Kopitar is going to be around for at least a few more seasons, and probably through the end of his deal unless a new CBA allows the Kings to do something different. Time to move on with the rebuild, and he will be a part of it in some way.

 

[lumbergh]

Over a decade of consistency didn't solve it. a 92 point season didn't solve it. Leading the playoffs in scoring twice, multiple Cups, Selkes, hart-caliber seasons didn't solve it.

Just hoping he's one of those players that's remembered more fondly in hindsight.

Future Hall of Famer. Book it. Joe Thornton with rings.

 

[KopitarFAN]

A candidate to be signed and exposed in the expansion?

 

[YP44]

A candidate to be signed and exposed in the expansion?

normally when I see rangers on these sort of lists I automatically put them as the favorite but are they not pretty close to the cap with Deangelo still to sign?

 

[kingsholygrail]

Just residuals from winning the Cup the year before and being hyped. Look at his point totals. Missed the playoffs by a point.

Is this the only way we evaluate centers in the league? If that's the case, I'm shocked you didn't bring up 2009 as a bad year.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

normally when I see rangers on these sort of lists I automatically put them as the favorite but are they not pretty close to the cap with Deangelo still to sign?

I think out the teams listed i see detroit as the leader as they have more money and opportunity for him to play big mins.

 

[YP44]

I think out the teams listed i see detroit as the leader as they have more money and opportunity for him to play big mins.

thinking the same

 

[King'sPawn]

Is this the only way we evaluate centers in the league? If that's the case, I'm shocked you didn't bring up 2009 as a bad year.

Frankly I've resigned myself to stop debating Kopitar as of yesterday.

Presented points/game to outline consistency, then I'm told it's not about points.

Then points are used to show why another year is bad. Not targeted at BigKing, since he still feels Kopitar is a top 20 center.

It's similar to when he had a terrible points/game average. He started racking up assists, then gets bagged for not scoring more goals.

People who take away from what Kopitar has done will always complain about him not doing more.

Kopitar has led his team in scoring since he entered the league more than any other player, except maybe Ovechkin. Even then I think Backstrom has a couple. I am too lazy to check.

Whether it's 50 or 80 points, that consistency in offensive output and defensive responsibility outweighs the petty metrics people throw against him.

Kopitar will be missed by the Kings when he's no longer on the team. Except by the detractors who will be complaining about the new #1 Center on the team.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Frankly I've resigned myself to stop debating Kopitar as of yesterday.

Presented points/game to outline consistency, then I'm told it's not about points.

Then points are used to show why another year is bad. Not targeted at BigKing, since he still feels Kopitar is a top 20 center.

It's similar to when he had a terrible points/game average. He started racking up assists, then gets bagged for not scoring more goals.

People who take away from what Kopitar has done will always complain about him not doing more.

Kopitar has led his team in scoring since he entered the league more than any other player, except maybe Ovechkin. Even then I think Backstrom has a couple. I am too lazy to check.

Whether it's 50 or 80 points, that consistency in offensive output and defensive responsibility outweighs the petty metrics people throw against him.

Kopitar will be missed by the Kings when he's no longer on the team. Except by the detractors who will be complaining about the new #1 Center on the team.

Like I said, hoping someday he's remembered fondly in retrospect, rather than "yeah, but did you see that year that 35% of his points where secondary assists?"

People don't know what real inconsistency is. Malkin has 30 point seasons sandwiching 110. This is like when people are complaining about bottom six production. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

 

[KINGS17]

Like I said, hoping someday he's remembered fondly in retrospect, rather than "yeah, but did you see that year that 35% of his points where secondary assists?"

People don't know what real inconsistency is. Malkin has 30 point seasons sandwiching 110. This is like when people are complaining about bottom six production. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

Absolutely correct, Malkin in the past had consecutive seasons of 37 points in 43 games, 109 points in 75 games, and 33 points in 31 games. He is just the epitome of inconsistency.