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Around the League 2018-2019 Part 2- Everyone is having fun except us

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GoldenBearHockey said:
I think it's close with Carlo, definitely not Kulak, Mayfield is close and can go either way, and Simek, don't know him too well enough to judge either way.
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Hey, I’m not really into the analytics thing but Corsica hockey would tend to disagree with you regarding Forbort.

NHL Player Ratings, NHL Player Rankings

It’s not all about strictly going by the eye test anymore which I prefer but, I’m getting old :laugh:. Like it or not, all the cool kids are using these types of formulas and numbers to play a large part in how they determine the make up of their roster.

Is it a perfect system? I’d say no but, it is what it is.

Copy cat league.
 
kovacro said:
Hey, I’m not really into the analytics thing but Corsica hockey would tend to disagree with you regarding Forbort.

NHL Player Ratings, NHL Player Rankings

It’s not all about strictly going by the eye test anymore which I prefer but, I’m getting old :laugh:. Like it or not, all the cool kids are using these types of formulas and numbers to play a large part in how they determine the make up of their roster.

Is it a perfect system? I’d say no but, it is what it is.

Copy cat league.
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Yes, except no team that has done it, has won anything, until that happens, you won't see too much of it being taken seriously,

They use it as a tool, but I can almost guarantee you they use the opinions of their professional scouts more.
 
So if not analytics, then eye test?

Forbort flunks the eye test. He is actually a guy who you hope analytics saves because his eye test is a failure. In this instance, it is a case of analytics and good old-fashioned "do you watch the games, nerd?" combining to bury a guy: rightfully so.

Is he at least a bottom pairing guy in the NHL? Sure. I'd just prefer that it not be on the team I follow.
 
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GoldenBearHockey said:
Yes, except no team that has done it, has won anything, until that happens, you won't see too much of it being taken seriously,

They use it as a tool, but I can almost guarantee you they use the opinions of their professional scouts more.
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How do we know teams haven’t won because of analytics? I’m sure it’s played some part.

It’s been around for awhile going back to Corsi, no?
 
BigKing said:
So if not analytics, then eye test?

Forbort flunks the eye test. He is actually a guy who you hope analytics saves because his eye test is a failure. In this instance, it is a case of analytics and good old-fashioned "do you watch the games, nerd?" combining to bury a guy: rightfully so.

Is he at least a bottom pairing guy in the NHL? Sure. I'd just prefer that it not be on the team I follow.
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Disagree, and I go back to hyper focusing on mistakes while ignoring the plays that succeed, does he make mistakes, absolutely, does he make mistakes a top 3 D should make, absolutely....but when you watch his game, and take fandom out of it, and analyze, 95% of the time, he is going to make the play that needs to be made.... again, there is a reason why NO ONE has replaced him on the roster, if he was as bad as people want him to be, does anyone really think people who do this for a living, wouldn't have noticed, does everyone either think that highly of their evaluation skills and that low of LA's?
 
kovacro said:
How do we know teams haven’t won because of analytics? I’m sure it’s played some part.

It’s been around for awhile going back to Corsi, no?
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I assumed you meant teams that were constructing their lineups from analytics.....Arizona tried, failed miserable, FLA was doing well, then tried, and failed miserably
 
kovacro said:
How do we know teams haven’t won because of analytics? I’m sure it’s played some part.

It’s been around for awhile going back to Corsi, no?
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Dean Lombardi himself is a believer in metrics like corsi, and he incorporated it into his roster construction. There’s a reason the Kings were top of the league for a solid run at the beginning of the decade. There also is a pretty strong correlation between possession metrics and the best teams in the league, including Stanley Cup winners. It’s not rocket science.

See, e.g., How the Los Angeles Kings Corsi'd their way to the NHL's elite
 
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GoldenBearHockey said:
Disagree, and I go back to hyper focusing on mistakes while ignoring the plays that succeed, does he make mistakes, absolutely, does he make mistakes a top 3 D should make, absolutely....but when you watch his game, and take fandom out of it, and analyze, 95% of the time, he is going to make the play that needs to be made.... again, there is a reason why NO ONE has replaced him on the roster, if he was as bad as people want him to be, does anyone really think people who do this for a living, wouldn't have noticed, does everyone either think that highly of their evaluation skills and that low of LA's?
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Nobody is "hyper focusing" on mistakes since you don't have to "hyper focus" to see them.

The fact that nobody has replaced him on the roster speaks to two things:

1 - The Kings are making a strong push to be the worst team in the league.

2 - That's how bad the Kings pipeline has been on defense.

I say all of this as a guy that has stuck up for him in the past as not being as bad as he is made out to be; however, I can't do that this season.

My "fandom" wants him long gone from the Kings organization. My knowledge of the game of hockey admits that he is an NHL defenseman.
 
Chazz Reinhold said:
Dean Lombardi himself is a believer in metrics like corsi, and he incorporated it into his roster construction. There’s a reason the Kings were top of the league for a solid run at the beginning of the decade. There also is a pretty strong correlation between possession metrics and the best teams in the league, including Stanley Cup winners. It’s not rocket science.

See, e.g., How the Los Angeles Kings Corsi'd their way to the NHL's elite
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Did you read the link, literally said, the best teams possess the puck more....to me...that's not on the edge cutting analysis, that's pretty much history, that's been since the game was invented.....Yes, Lombardi used analytics, tell me how that worked after 2014?
 
BigKing said:
Nobody is "hyper focusing" on mistakes since you don't have to "hyper focus" to see them.

The fact that nobody has replaced him on the roster speaks to two things:

1 - The Kings are making a strong push to be the worst team in the league.

2 - That's how bad the Kings pipeline has been on defense.

I say all of this as a guy that has stuck up for him in the past as not being as bad as he is made out to be; however, I can't do that this season.

My "fandom" wants him long gone from the Kings organization. My knowledge of the game of hockey admits that he is an NHL defenseman.
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I bolded the nonsense,

1. The team was pushing to make the playoffs in 2016, made them in 2017, has had a horrible 2018, nothing about that suggests Forbort is the reason, that's just insane, he's still on the roster because the Kings are making a push to be the worst, that MIGHT make sense, if he was a rookie.

2. Are you suggesting that the Kings pipeline is the only place to get defenseman? Hell, they got Muzzin by free agency.....but you'd rather believe that the Kings couldn't replace Forbort because their pipeline is bad (has been, I do agree with you, but that's NOT the reason Forbort is still on the roster)
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
I assumed you meant teams that were constructing their lineups from analytics.....Arizona tried, failed miserable, FLA was doing well, then tried, and failed miserably
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I’m sure teams are. It’s a part of factoring in how they build their club.

Leafs are using it with success. Dubas is an analytics guy.
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
He;s an analytics guy, but point to a move he has done because of analytics?

He hasn't yet...
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.

Haha, how would you or I know in all honesty? Because he didn’t come out and say as much? They may have loved Petan’s analytics or Muzzin’s for that matter.

You don’t think there was some sort of analytical comparison/number crunching that was factored into any acquisition he’s made during his tenure?

No one should be acquiring a player based solely off numbers generated from a Commodore 64 but, it does play a factor in the game today.
 
Just switched on the Blues Oilesr game (switching around during Flyers commerical)

Blues up 4-0 with /10 minutes left in the 2nd

Blues outshooting the Oilers 25-6

Oilers just got their 1st SOG in the 2nd...
 
Captain Clutch does it again. Justin Williams ties the game vs the Pens 2-2 with just under 2 min left. He busts his butt on almost every shift. His 22nd of the year.
now the Canes are on a PP.
Hope they win this one...
 
Red Wings win.

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Chazz Reinhold said:
Dean Lombardi himself is a believer in metrics like corsi, and he incorporated it into his roster construction. There’s a reason the Kings were top of the league for a solid run at the beginning of the decade. There also is a pretty strong correlation between possession metrics and the best teams in the league, including Stanley Cup winners. It’s not rocket science.

See, e.g., How the Los Angeles Kings Corsi'd their way to the NHL's elite
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It passed the eye test as well. Pretty tough for the other team to score when the Kings were possessing the puck in the opposition's zone.
 
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GoldenBearHockey said:
That's not analytics bud, that's common sense...

Again, referring to Arizona, whose analytics had them get rid of Domi, Strome, Perlini,

Florida who chose to get rid of Marchessault and Reilly, per analytics etc, not solely there, but that was part of it....
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Well, those are the stats I have been using, so if he is atrocious by those metrics and those are common sense metrics, what does that make Forbort? Also, not sure why you are bringing up those teams to me, I disagree with going overboard with analytics when building a team, largely because there is more to the game. However, in this case the eye test and results are lining up perfectly with the analytics.
 
crassbonanza said:
Well, those are the stats I have been using, so if he is atrocious by those metrics and those are common sense metrics, what does that make Forbort? Also, not sure why you are bringing up those teams to me, I disagree with going overboard with analytics when building a team, largely because there is more to the game. However, in this case the eye test and results are lining up perfectly with the analytics.
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It's like talking to a wall, man.
 
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