Around the League 2018-2019 Part 2- Everyone is having fun except us

[deeshamrock]

Caps also get a 5th in return.

That's a good move for the Caps, I think Jensen will be a good add for them.

 

[crassbonanza]

I think it's short-sighted. I would have moved Panarin and Bobrovsky out of there earlier in the season.

What would have been your end goal? To throw away your season for a couple of picks in the late 20's, so that hopefully in another decade they may have another opportunity to try for a deep playoff run? While hoping the whole time that the long suffering fanbase continues to support the franchise that gave up when they had their best opportunity at one? Even if you sold everything, you are not likely to end up with the talent that they currently have again. It's really not a lot that they traded, picks in the late 20's are really not that valuable, this is a worthwhile risk for them.

 

[kovacro]

I think the Jackets owe to their fans who have put up with mediocrity for long enough. Why not go for it? Just got to get into the dance and anything can happen. We all know that.

I would not be surprised if they made another move or two prior to the deadline.

 

[KINGS17]

What would have been your end goal? To throw away your season for a couple of picks in the late 20's, so that hopefully in another decade they may have another opportunity to try for a deep playoff run? While hoping the whole time that the long suffering fanbase continues to support the franchise that gave up when they had their best opportunity at one? Even if you sold everything, you are not likely to end up with the talent that they currently have again. It's really not a lot that they traded, picks in the late 20's are really not that valuable, this is a worthwhile risk for them.

Unfortunately, even with Panarin and Bobrovsky Columbus is a bubble team. I don't think adding Duchene has that great of an impact.

Sorry, but I think they misjudged the Panarin situation and spent too much on Bobrovsky.

It's a setback, but they would have gotten more for Panarin alone than picks in the late 20's, especially if they had done so earlier in the season. I think you know the return on Panarin alone would have been quite good.

 

[KINGS17]

I think the Jackets owe to their fans who have put up with mediocrity for long enough. Why not go for it? Just got to get into the dance and anything can happen. We all know that.

I would not be surprised if they made another move or two prior to the deadline.

Sorry, I don't see the resemblance to the 2012 Kings at all.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Unfortunately, even with Panarin and Bobrovsky Columbus is a bubble team. I don't think adding Duchene has that great of an impact.

Sorry, but I think they misjudged the Panarin situation and spent too much on Bobrovsky.

It's a setback, but they would have gotten more for Panarin alone than picks in the late 20's, especially if they had done so earlier in the season. I think you know the return on Panarin alone would have been quite good.

BS, everyone knows he's going to "test" FA and he's only interested in 3-4 markets.....so if you are WPG and you want him as a rental, are you going to throw a "quite good" offer for him for 3 months?

If you are true to your word here, of course you wouldn't......but I wouldn't be surprised if you switched courses and say yes, of course you would etc.

 

[crassbonanza]

Unfortunately, even with Panarin and Bobrovsky Columbus is a bubble team. I don't think adding Duchene has that great of an impact.

Sorry, but I think they misjudged the Panarin situation and spent too much on Bobrovsky.

It's a setback, but they would have gotten more for Panarin alone than picks in the late 20's, especially if they had done so earlier in the season. I think you know the return on Panarin alone would have been quite good.

To say that Duchene won't have an impact is just not fair, I mean he has 58 points in 50 games. He will definitely have an impact on the Blue Jackets offense. I personally think Duchene is over rated and the Blue Jackets paid a bit too much, but at the same time completely understand this risk and think it was the right move. You can't just sit on your ass selling off players constantly for lottery tickets. Eventually you have to go for it.

 

[KINGS17]

To say that Duchene won't have an impact is just not fair, I mean he has 58 points in 50 games. He will definitely have an impact on the Blue Jackets offense. I personally think Duchene is over rated and the Blue Jackets paid a bit too much, but at the same time completely understand this risk and think it was the right move. You can't just sit on your ass selling off players constantly for lottery tickets. Eventually you have to go for it.

I agree, I just don't think this is the time for Columbus. I was rooting for them last season when they went up 2-0 on the Caps.

I would be a bit concerned too about getting the all out effort required to win in the playoffs from three guys who might be moving on soon.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think everyone is making good points which help illustrate why Kekalainen is in such a tough spot.

To me, I'm with K17. I would have tried to get assets for Bob and Panarin. They're not a part of your future plans, and they're not getting you over the hump in the present. Transform them into more great young players instead of riding out the wave like this is your last shot. Going out and trading further assets for Duchene helps strengthen what could be a catastrophe, a setback from a building standpoint. They're not the core, what's the point? And if CBJ tries to build around Duchene...there goes another pick, right? Oy, vey, never mind how much he's demonstrated he's not the guy. Once the checking picks up, he gets erased completely. Not talented enough to score on the rush, not elusive enough to elude contact like Gaudreau, just a very exciting looking player with low end 1C/high end 2C results. For perspective, until now, he's hardly put up Jeff Carter numbers despite being force-fed.

To me, CBJ should be building around their youngsters. Jones is 24. Werenski 21. PLD is 20. Anderson is 24. Keep Atkinson, 29, and Foligno, 31, as the C/A "good vets." And maybe David Savard, 28. Bjorkstrand, Wennberg, etc. all good supplementary players are all young and cheap. I don't think it's wise to give up their future support for literally ONE kick at the can hoping that Duchene, Dubinsky, Panarin are going to outduel Backstrom/Kuznetsov/Ovechkin, or Kucherov/Stamkos/Point, or Malkin/Crosby, etc. you get the idea. They have to run a guantlet vs. the east. It's a whole lot of shitting in one hand and wishing in another and seeing which one fills up first while wiping clean with picks.

In other words, to me, it's one part bad asset management, one part wishful--not logical--thinking.

Edit: nearly forgot especially because of CBJs prospect pool. Man, giving up Abramov and Davidson was dumb. Luckily they still have Foudy, Gavrikov. Bemstrom.

That's a good move for the Caps, I think Jensen will be a good add for them.

I admit to apparently knowing nothing about Nick Jensen.

 

[deeshamrock]

Good signing, he'll be a steady blueliner for them. He's a fairly good PK'er, pretty aggressive with SOG's, a good puck mover who has a pretty good sense of things around him, pretty good stick, blocking the puck and getting it out with lead passes. He's a good defensive guy, averages about 20 min per game. For what he can do for them, that's a steal.

 

[LAKings88]

Panarin and Bob should have been traded. Even if only for a first rounder each.

Not a Cup team. Not the right year.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

mcDavid suspended 2 games. Wha?

I didn't see what he did, so i'm just oging to assume this is the NHL rigging the lottery for the oilers

 

[tny760]

drive-by head pick, 2 games is fair imo

 

[johnjm22]

Sorry, I don't see the resemblance to the 2012 Kings at all.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Panarin and Bob should have been traded. Even if only for a first rounder each.

Not a Cup team. Not the right year.

They very likely won't be able to replace Panarin quickly. When is it going to be the right year? They've been around going on 18 years, and they have 5 single game playoff wins. They've got Panarin having a career year, Atkinson having a career year, Dubois having a better 2nd than 1st year, it's Werenski's last ELC year. They bring in Duchene, playing for a big contract, and having a career year. Who knows what the goaltending will be next year. They're unlikely to get their next franchise player in any deal involving any UFA. They've protected their lottery chances.

Is TB going to suck next year? Washington? Pittsburgh? Toronto? When will the right year be? Always the next year?

 

[kovacro]

Panarin and Bob should have been traded. Even if only for a first rounder each.

Not a Cup team. Not the right year.

There’s a reason the Jackets went they way they did today. They surely listened to offers on Panarin and potentially Bob and there wasn’t anything at the level of compensation they were asking for. Essentially, these two are their ‘rentals’ for the rest of the season.

If you are a GM and you know Panarin is going to test the market on July 1, would you commit to giving a 1st rd pick and potentially an A level prospect? I surely would not, much too rich for a guy who has no reported interest in talking about an extension. Paying a 2nd or 3rd and low level prospect? sure, but Columbus is telling you to politely go f*** off.

I think GBH touched on this earlier in the thread, but I could be mistaken.

I cannot blame the Jackets for taking a shot here. I don’t think they are done either.

 

[kovacro]

Good signing, he'll be a steady blueliner for them. He's a fairly good PK'er, pretty aggressive with SOG's, a good puck mover who has a pretty good sense of things around him, pretty good stick, blocking the puck and getting it out with lead passes. He's a good defensive guy, averages about 20 min per game. For what he can do for them, that's a steal.

He might be their 2019 version of Michael Kempny. Nice pickup indeed.

 

[kovacro]

Let’s go Ducks....Again, I feel gross.

Tied with the Flames after 40. I’d be content if they could squeeze a point out of this one.

 

[LAKings88]

There’s a reason the Jackets went they way they did today. They surely listened to offers on Panarin and potentially Bob and there wasn’t anything at the level of compensation they were asking for. Essentially, these two are their ‘rentals’ for the rest of the season.

If you are a GM and you know Panarin is going to test the market on July 1, would you commit to giving a 1st rd pick and potentially an A level prospect? I surely would not, much too rich for a guy who has no reported interest in talking about an extension. Paying a 2nd or 3rd and low level prospect? sure, but Columbus is telling you to politely go **** off.

I think GBH touched on this earlier in the thread, but I could be mistaken.

I cannot blame the Jackets for taking a shot here. I don’t think they are done either.

I get the thinking but I don’t agree. CLB could lose three major pieces without getting anything in return. Now they have also lost their first rounder. Very near sighted imho. Hope it’s not all for a first round exit.

 

[kingsfan28]

mcDavid suspended 2 games. Wha?

I didn't see what he did, so i'm just oging to assume this is the NHL rigging the lottery for the oilers

Yeah, I was shocked too. After seeing it, he should've been tossed , not given a minor penalty. Of course he goes on a win the game in OT.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They very likely won't be able to replace Panarin quickly. When is it going to be the right year? They've been around going on 18 years, and they have 5 single game playoff wins. They've got Panarin having a career year, Atkinson having a career year, Dubois having a better 2nd than 1st year, it's Werenski's last ELC year. They bring in Duchene, playing for a big contract, and having a career year. Who knows what the goaltending will be next year. They're unlikely to get their next franchise player in any deal involving any UFA. They've protected their lottery chances.

Is TB going to suck next year? Washington? Pittsburgh? Toronto? When will the right year be? Always the next year?

CBJs real core is 5-10 years younger than each one of those teams. It would have been like the 09-10 Kings making moves at the deadline to throw haymakers at peak Sedins and the Canucks, Thornton and the Sharks, Datsyuk and Zetterberg, the Hawks. Getting Paul Stastny doesn't get the Kings anything there but a hampered future and a one-round-later loss. I expect the same for CBJ.

I'm not saying you wait out the other teams or anything, just that you have to wait for your true team to erupt. We know Panarin and Bob aren't Jackets for life, we know Duchene is a f***ing loser, we know Atkinson, Dubi, Foligno are great players but aren't going to lead a hard charge through generational guys. So why sacrifice future solid players on a wish? To win ONE playoff round because the fans deserve it? Why does that thinking "make it and anything can happen" get so routinely trampled around here, then? Why not add more parts for free to a career-year Kopitar, Doughty, Quick?

I get the thinking but I don’t agree. CLB could lose three major pieces without getting anything in return. Now they have also lost their first rounder. Very near sighted imho. Hope it’s not all for a first round exit.

They may also sign Duchene and lose another first rounder.

 

[deeshamrock]

I think everyone is making good points which help illustrate why Kekalainen is in such a tough spot.

To me, I'm with K17. I would have tried to get assets for Bob and Panarin. They're not a part of your future plans, and they're not getting you over the hump in the present. Transform them into more great young players instead of riding out the wave like this is your last shot. Going out and trading further assets for Duchene helps strengthen what could be a catastrophe, a setback from a building standpoint. They're not the core, what's the point? And if CBJ tries to build around Duchene...there goes another pick, right? Oy, vey, never mind how much he's demonstrated he's not the guy. Once the checking picks up, he gets erased completely. Not talented enough to score on the rush, not elusive enough to elude contact like Gaudreau, just a very exciting looking player with low end 1C/high end 2C results. For perspective, until now, he's hardly put up Jeff Carter numbers despite being force-fed.

To me, CBJ should be building around their youngsters. Jones is 24. Werenski 21. PLD is 20. Anderson is 24. Keep Atkinson, 29, and Foligno, 31, as the C/A "good vets." And maybe David Savard, 28. Bjorkstrand, Wennberg, etc. all good supplementary players are all young and cheap. I don't think it's wise to give up their future support for literally ONE kick at the can hoping that Duchene, Dubinsky, Panarin are going to outduel Backstrom/Kuznetsov/Ovechkin, or Kucherov/Stamkos/Point, or Malkin/Crosby, etc. you get the idea. They have to run a guantlet vs. the east. It's a whole lot of ****ting in one hand and wishing in another and seeing which one fills up first while wiping clean with picks.

In other words, to me, it's one part bad asset management, one part wishful--not logical--thinking.

Edit: nearly forgot especially because of CBJs prospect pool. Man, giving up Abramov and Davidson was dumb. Luckily they still have Foudy, Gavrikov. Bemstrom.



I admit to apparently knowing nothing about Nick Jensen.

Getting assets for Bob and Panarin - what assets? No GM is giving up anything significant for rentals of that caliber who are signing elsewhere. Once Bob and Panarin said they were moving on, any hopes of getting a fair return went out the window. They are move valuable thru post season on the team then for a low round pick that might never leave the AHL. It sucks, but it happens. Players have the right to move on.

Building around Duchene/core- Duchene would be part of the core, not the player they are building around. Their most glaring hole is in goal and that has to be addressed first. Not easy but once Bob decided to set sail, that was that

Abramov and Davidson- IMO, not dumb. Davidson is at best a 4th liner and Abramov , although fast, has a lot of holes in his game. Projected to be and being are 2 different things. I didn't see either as a loss.
I get you don't like Duchene, which is a part of your argument against the trade. I think he's on a team with a talented group of players and will do just fine, if the BJ's fill the hole in the net. He's a good forward, he has speed and skill.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I get the thinking but I don’t agree. CLB could lose three major pieces without getting anything in return. Now they have also lost their first rounder. Very near sighted imho. Hope it’s not all for a first round exit.

The Jackets also haven't drafted a franchise changing player outside of the top 10 ever. The last few times they've had some late 1st's, they haven't ended up with anyone of consequence yet. The crap shoot of the draft is as big of a roll of the dice as the playoffs. If it was one of Panarin or Bob that was a UFA this year, maybe it's different. If they ended up like the Kings this year, it would be an easy decision to get rid of both. 4 points out of 2nd, and 6 points out of 1st in the Metro.

CBJs real core is 5-10 years younger than each one of those teams. It would have been like the 09-10 Kings making moves at the deadline to throw haymakers at peak Sedins and the Canucks, Thornton and the Sharks, Datsyuk and Zetterberg, the Hawks. Getting Paul Stastny doesn't get the Kings anything there but a hampered future and a one-round-later loss. I expect the same for CBJ.

I'm not saying you wait out the other teams or anything, just that you have to wait for your true team to erupt. We know Panarin and Bob aren't Jackets for life, we know Duchene is a ****ing loser, we know Atkinson, Dubi, Foligno are great players but aren't going to lead a hard charge through generational guys. So why sacrifice future solid players on a wish? To win ONE playoff round because the fans deserve it? Why does that thinking "make it and anything can happen" get so routinely trampled around here, then? Why not add more parts for free to a career-year Kopitar, Doughty, Quick?

That Kings team wasn't in danger of having to transform their team in the following season through player choice. That was all up to DL.

How often are you going to have a player like Panarin? How many more times is Atkinson going to be a top 10 goal scorer as he's closing in on 30 years of age? Columbus will likely not get one of the top couple picks this year, so they're unlikely to add a potential franchise guy. As we've all been discussing recently, late 1st's are more likely to not be anything than to be something.

If their real core is that young, they have time to regroup if they don't win this year. At some point, you have to take advantage of Panarin and Atkinson. Production like that doesn't fall off a tree. Without knowing what the offers are for Panarin, what's he really going to bring back?

They're in the worst possible position to be as a team. They're not top 5, they're not bad, and they have a couple massive UFA's. There's no easy choice. There's little nuance possible. It's either get rid of them for whatever is out there, or go all in. Both paths have...

 

[LAKings88]

I think a pure rental Panarin would fetch a first and a prospect from a team that is close to competing for the cup.

Bob is tougher just because ‘goalies’.

You need to be very smart with youth and keeping you cupboards full nowadays. For future roster players and moves.

I admire going for it but I think they don’t stack up. Maybe I’m wrong. I guess they feel it’s never gonna be better than now. Good luck.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Getting assets for Bob and Panarin - what assets? No GM is giving up anything significant for rentals of that caliber who are signing elsewhere. Once Bob and Panarin said they were moving on, any hopes of getting a fair return went out the window. They are move valuable thru post season on the team then for a low round pick that might never leave the AHL. It sucks, but it happens. Players have the right to move on.

Building around Duchene/core- Duchene would be part of the core, not the player they are building around. Their most glaring hole is in goal and that has to be addressed first. Not easy but once Bob decided to set sail, that was that

Abramov and Davidson- IMO, not dumb. Davidson is at best a 4th liner and Abramov , although fast, has a lot of holes in his game. Projected to be and being are 2 different things. I didn't see either as a loss.
I get you don't like Duchene, which is a part of your argument against the trade. I think he's on a team with a talented group of players and will do just fine, if the BJ's fill the hole in the net. He's a good forward, he has speed and skill.

Yes, ultimately it's my beef with Duchene rather than the other items that's my major argument with the trade. You don't trade two of your best prospects AND two first round picks for "just fine," imo. Imagine the return for Carter if he returns to form! I also disagree that Panarin especially wouldn't land you at least a really good prospect and a conditional first. Like I said, I just see it as a desperate kick at the can, not a strategic "ok, we're ready" move.

The Jackets also haven't drafted a franchise changing player outside of the top 10 ever. The last few times they've had some late 1st's, they haven't ended up with anyone of consequence yet. The crap shoot of the draft is as big of a roll of the dice as the playoffs. If it was one of Panarin or Bob that was a UFA this year, maybe it's different. If they ended up like the Kings this year, it would be an easy decision to get rid of both. 4 points out of 2nd, and 6 points out of 1st in the Metro.



That Kings team wasn't in danger of having to transform their team in the following season through player choice. That was all up to DL.

How often are you going to have a player like Panarin? How many more times is Atkinson going to be a top 10 goal scorer as he's closing in on 30 years of age? Columbus will likely not get one of the top couple picks this year, so they're unlikely to add a potential franchise guy. As we've all been discussing recently, late 1st's are more likely to not be anything than to be something.

If their real core is that young, they have time to regroup if they don't win this year. At some point, you have to take advantage of Panarin and Atkinson. Production like that doesn't fall off a tree. Without knowing what the offers are for Panarin, what's he really going to bring back?

They're in the worst possible position to be as a team. They're not top 5, they're not bad, and they have a couple massive UFA's. There's no easy choice. There's little nuance possible. It's either get rid of them for whatever is out there, or go all in. Both paths have...

Yeah, I definitely think they're in a tough spot, mentioned as much earlier. There's probably not a 'right' answer and I generally like Kekalainen as well as the rest of that squad. I just feel Duchene isn't a difference-maker, that's a hefty price to pay, and they're not significantly better to challenge any of the other eastern conference powers for more than a round. Especially with "playoff" Bob, who is basically reverse-JQ, great in the regular season, leaves you wishing for more in the playoffs.