Around the League 2018-19 Part 2

[Sojourn]

That’s the rumored asking price. And contracts are getting bigger and bigger. I can understand their thought process of not wanting to be held hostage by their super star player in the middle of the cup window

There definitely needs to be a lockout though

I understand. I'm just saying that Matthews in no way deserves that, whether he asked for it or not. It's one thing to say that Matthews could become the best player in the league, but it's quite another to actually be that.

Maybe he just started believing the hype, and maybe Toronto has blown too much sunshine up his ass, but the numbers don't support it. Even if you remove the games missed and extrapolate his numbers over full seasons, they still don't come close.

 

[AngelDuck]

I understand. I'm just saying that Matthews in no way deserves that, whether he asked for it or not. It's one thing to say that Matthews could become the best player in the league, but it's quite another to actually be that.

Maybe he just started believing the hype, and maybe Toronto has blown too much sunshine up his ass, but the numbers don't support it. Even if you remove the games missed and extrapolate his numbers over full seasons, they still don't come close.

Obviously he doesn’t deserve to be the highest paid player.

So do you let him hold out instead next year? Because he likely wasn’t signing anything other than the ridiculous 8 year/14-15 AAV contract or the contract they just gave him.

I’m just saying that it makes sense why Toronto did what they did

He’s now being paid at a fair rate for the next 5 years guaranteed and you can worry about it after the lockout

 

[Sojourn]

Obviously he doesn’t deserve to be the highest paid player.

So do you let him hold out instead next year? Because he likely wasn’t signing anything other than the ridiculous 8 year/14-15 AAV contract or the contract they just gave him.

I’m just saying that it makes sense why Toronto did what they did

I can't really answer that. I wasn't there to see the negotiations. All I know is that Matthews was not in McDavid's tier, so it's ridiculous that there was even a demand for that kind of money. For all I know, Dubas didn't work hard enough to make that argument. Toronto loves the kid, and the media hypes him like crazy, but it was Dubas' responsibility to be the voice of reason.

 

[AngelDuck]

Say what you want about Matthews being overrated but the guy is a 40+ goal 1st line center barely over 20 years old

A ton of leverage

 

[AngelDuck]

I can't really answer that. I wasn't there to see the negotiations. All I know is that Matthews was not in McDavid's tier, so it's ridiculous that there was even a demand for that kind of money. For all I know, Dubas didn't work hard enough to make that argument. Toronto loves the kid, and the media hypes him like crazy, but it was Dubas' responsibility to be the voice of reason.

Okay, we get it, it’s ridiculous.

That’s what he was going to be commanding though, as ridiculous as it may be to you. Lebrun and McKenzie have confirmed it.

They wouldn’t have made this deal if they think they could have got him for less than that over 8 years. Obviously

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Nylander scared Dubas into this deal. I'm really looking forward to the fireworks this summer over Marner.

 

[Sojourn]

Okay, we get it, it’s ridiculous.

That’s what he was going to be commanding though, as ridiculous as it may be to you. Lebrun and McKenzie have confirmed it.

They wouldn’t have made this deal if they think they could have got him for less than that over 8 years. Obviously

Are you really taking issue with me reiterating that it's ridiculous? Why is that a problem?

Yes, I take issue with Matthews commanding a McDavid percentage of a team's salary. You can say that people are saying he would have gotten it, and I'll continue to reiterate that's part of the problem. In my opinion, it's partly the media's fault this is even happening. There was so much hype around Matthews, that it almost became irrelevant that he wasn't actually a top 5 player in the game based on actual results. People were saying he was that, and that was enough. There is a pretty good argument here that the media is actually influencing the salary players are able to command, despite the results not supporting it

If people weren't claiming Matthews was the best thing since sliced bread, and we were looking solely at his on-ice play and his progression, would we even be having this conversation?

 

[AngelDuck]

Jesus, it's like pulling teeth. Refuse to state your actual opinion on what you would have done, continue to go back to the same regurgitated line of the last 6 posts.

Like a politician

 

[Sojourn]

I mean, it's great that Toronto got bent over here. Maybe they will get a Cup out of it, but they're hurting themselves in the long-term. But this is not a good precedent to set, and it may impact us at some point too.

 

[Sojourn]

Jesus, it's like pulling teeth. Refuse to state your actual opinion on what you would have done, continue to go back to the same regurgitated line of the last 6 posts.

Like a politician

Did I run over your cat or something, man?

What is your deal?

 

[Sojourn]

Nylander scared Dubas into this deal. I'm really looking forward to the fireworks this summer over Marner.

He's in a terrific position right now.

 

[anezthes]

Matthews also has a great supporting cast. Something McDavid does not.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

He's in a terrific position right now.

Yes, he is. I'm loving the consternation in Leafs nation these days. I remember when they were convinced the big 3 would take team friendly deals to win multiple cups together. Good times.

Last night on the TSN feed, between periods, Bobby Mac went through a PowerPoint presentation how all these numbers could work out fine for the Leafs. Filling the roster with scraps and no Gardiner, he got them with $1.2M cap to spare, assuming a cap of $85M. And that assumes the Leafs have no carry over hits to the cap from Matthews & Marner ELC bonuses earned this year. Oh yeah, watching the Leafs media shit themselves over this debacle is priceless.

 

[Sojourn]

Matthews also has a great supporting cast. Something McDavid does not.

Also true. He's surrounded by offensive talent. You can only really speculate how he'd do with less help, but it's yet another argument that he isn't as valuable.

I don't know. Like I said, I wasn't there to see the discussions so I'm not sure what I'd do differently, or even if something could have been done. I just don't think it should have gotten to this point. The numbers don't justify that kind of salary, which leads me to believe it's mostly hype driven. Toronto and the media made the argument that he was that good, even if the stats weren't there for it, and maybe Dubas didn't work hard enough to counter that argument.

The argument that he is worth less is there. It's clear.

 

[Sojourn]

Yes, he is. I'm loving the consternation in Leafs nation these days. I remember when they were convinced the big 3 would take team friendly deals to win multiple cups together. Good times.

Last night on the TSN feed, between periods, Bobby Mac went through a PowerPoint presentation how all these numbers could work out fine for the Leafs. Filling the roster with scraps and no Gardiner, he got them with $1.2M cap to spare, assuming a cap of $85M. And that assumes the Leafs have no carry over hits to the cap from Matthews & Marner ELC bonuses earned this year. Oh yeah, watching the Leafs media **** themselves over this debacle is priceless.

It gets worse when you remember Andersen and Rielly will need new contracts in a few years.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

It gets worse when you remember Andersen and Rielly will need new contracts in a few years.

Oh, I'm gonna die of laughter before then. Short of winning the cup this is the best and most entertaining hockey news I've had in a long time.

 

[Paul4587]

Did Toronto just sign Matthews to a bridge deal worth $11.5M that sends him to UFA? Does that seem like a bad idea to anyone else?

It’s not the best deal, I get the logic but it makes McDavid and Eichels deals look like absolute steals.

 

[Paul4587]

Say what you want about Matthews being overrated but the guy is a 40+ goal 1st line center barely over 20 years old

A ton of leverage

He’s 21 and at the same age McDavid had two scoring titles.

He’s in the Eichel tier, not the McDavid tier. Him getting paid $1M less than Connor at just over half the term is a bit much.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Oh, this is going to be sooo much fun!

 

[AngelDuck]

He’s 21 and at the same age McDavid had two scoring titles.

He’s in the Eichel tier, not the McDavid tier. Him getting paid $1M less than Connor at just over half the term is a bit much.

He's better than Eichel, and will easily be worth that contract over his age 22-27 seasons.

 

[Paul4587]

He's better than Eichel, and will easily be worth that contract over his age 22-27 seasons.

He’s slightly better. It’s not by a huge amount. I’m not sure how worth it he we will be, plenty of better players are carrying lower cap hits and McDavid who is far, far better is only $1M more.

 

[AngelDuck]

He’s slightly better. It’s not by a huge amount. I’m not sure how worth it he we will be, plenty of better players are carrying lower cap hits and McDavid who is far, far better is only $1M more.

These contracts are not some sort of static science. They are increasing every single season. If McDavid were an RFA today, he would get more than he did.

A player like Draisaitl got 8 million for Christ sake. Matthews is a lot better than that guy

 

[bumperkisser]

Oh, this is going to be sooo much fun!

As they should. Some could say Marner is better than Matthews. An argument could certainly be made that he's the better producer

 

[BiolaRunner]

Then something is wrong. He shouldn't have gotten what McDavid got, let alone more. I know he's hyped all to hell and back, but McDavid actually put up the numbers to justify it, and not enough time has passed to justify a salary inflation argument.

They got, what? 1 UFA year of Matthews? At a price tag that, really, you'd expect the full 8 years for. There aren't enough UFA years here. They're setting things up for an even bigger payday, or they will lose him outright.

McDavid pretty much by himself took EDM within a game of the WCF. Matthews has 2 first round exits where they under performed. McDavid definitely deserves the higher contract

 

[AngelDuck]

McDavid pretty much by himself took EDM within a game of the WCF. Matthews has 2 first round exits where they under performed. McDavid definitely deserves the higher contract

And he has the higher contract.