Around the League 2018-19 IV

[billingtons ghost]

I wouldn't call Johnny Mac a traitor for going to the Rangers. He and Bruce Driver are both big exceptions, which I talked about last week.

First off with Johnny Mac, he didn't leave the Devils to go to the Rangers (Driver did, but I'll get to that later). He was traded by us to San Jose, then when his contract expired he signed with the Rangers. He said he signed with the Rangers to move back and be close to his kids. I think he turned down a better deal from Toronto to go to the Rangers. Obviously coming back to the Devils was not an option or on the table at that point. He would later come back as a coach after his playing career was done, but coming back to the Devils was not going to happen at that point, so he came back to the area and signed with the Rangers and got to be with his kids again.

Driver left the Devils as a UFA to sign with the Rangers. He wanted to stay with the Devils, but Lou wouldn't give him a no trade clause. He didn't wanna uproot his family and signing with the Rangers afforded him the ability to do that. They gave him the no trade clause and he went there.

Back in the day, Lou didn't hand out no trade clasues or no movement clauses. Not a lot of GM's did back in the mid 90's, even though they're so common place today. They're standard with almost any multiple year UFA that's on a decent salaried contract.

I'm trying to think if Elias got the first no trade clause Lou ever gave out? Marty and Scott Stevens might have gotten them, but they were always re-signed before getting close to UFA or even RFA in Marty's case at that time, due to his age. So I'm not even counting them. I don't think Mogilny and that batch in 2005 got a NTC or NMC, did they? Elias might have been the first in 2006. Then guys like Zubrus (I don't even know if he got one on his first contract with us though? I think he did on his second) and maybe even Rolston were getting them also.

Good post man. I can't knock Johnny Mac for his reasoning HOWEVER-
Going to the Rangers is a non-starter. There was definitely a hint of showing up Lou and the organization by picking the Rags. Go to the Isles. Even Philthy would be better. With Pittsburgh, Boston etc etc nearby, it isn't like Winnepeg where there's only one game in town to be near his kids. He knew what he was doing.

 

[Patrik26]

I wouldn't call Johnny Mac a traitor for going to the Rangers. He and Bruce Driver are both big exceptions, which I talked about last week.

First off with Johnny Mac, he didn't leave the Devils to go to the Rangers (Driver did, but I'll get to that later). He was traded by us to San Jose, then when his contract expired he signed with the Rangers. He said he signed with the Rangers to move back and be close to his kids. I think he turned down a better deal from Toronto to go to the Rangers. Obviously coming back to the Devils was not an option or on the table at that point. He would later come back as a coach after his playing career was done, but coming back to the Devils was not going to happen at that point, so he came back to the area and signed with the Rangers and got to be with his kids again.

Driver left the Devils as a UFA to sign with the Rangers. He wanted to stay with the Devils, but Lou wouldn't give him a no trade clause. He didn't wanna uproot his family and signing with the Rangers afforded him the ability to do that. They gave him the no trade clause and he went there.

Back in the day, Lou didn't hand out no trade clasues or no movement clauses. Not a lot of GM's did back in the mid 90's, even though they're so common place today. They're standard with almost any multiple year UFA that's on a decent salaried contract.

I'm trying to think if Elias got the first no trade clause Lou ever gave out? Marty and Scott Stevens might have gotten them, but they were always re-signed before getting close to UFA or even RFA in Marty's case at that time, due to his age. So I'm not even counting them. I don't think Mogilny and that batch in 2005 got a NTC or NMC, did they? Elias might have been the first in 2006. Then guys like Zubrus (I don't even know if he got one on his first contract with us though? I think he did on his second) and maybe even Rolston were getting them also.

Good post man. I can't knock Johnny Mac for his reasoning HOWEVER-
Going to the Rangers is a non-starter. There was definitely a hint of showing up Lou and the organization by picking the Rags. Go to the Isles. Even Philthy would be better. With Pittsburgh, Boston etc etc nearby, it isn't like Winnepeg where there's only one game in town to be near his kids. He knew what he was doing.

We'll never know what actually took place during any serious negotiations (if there even were any) but the human element is reality and maybe, just maybe, Lou pissed players off enough to sway the destination to a hated rival.

 

[billingtons ghost]

We'll never know what actually took place during any serious negotiations (if there even were any) but the human element is reality and maybe, just maybe, Lou pissed players off enough to sway the destination to a hated rival.

Johnny Mac was towards the end of his career (34yrs old) and wanted to get paid for what came before - he was disgruntled at the offers Lou was giving him, as Lou had his eyes on getting us a few more cups before the windows were closing on Stevens et al. Rightfully, Lou thought of him as a moveable and replaceable piece. He also rightfully took some of the blame of the disaster of missing the playoffs during the cup hangover in 96.

Like I said, I don't fault JMac's thinking - and in reality he owed the Devils (and fans?!?) nothing - but it doesn't take much to see that he enjoyed thinking he was sticking it to the Devils by going to the arch rivals - and I personally think him less of a person because of it. He owes nothing to the fans? I owe nothing to him.

 

[glenwo2]

That Ferland hit on Johansson did not look good. I hate to say it, but I’m glad we got something for him before he got injured again.

I also feel dirty for agreeing with you.

But it is what it is.

Right now, I'm hoping MarJo can recover from this.

Ugh. Clean hit, but really feel for Mojo. Hope he's just shaken up at worst.

Shoulder doesn't appear to make any connection to the head nor Mojo's head hit any part of the ice.

Looks to me like the Whip-Lash affect may have scrambled something.

 

[FooteBahl]

I also feel dirty for agreeing with you.

But it is what it is.

Right now, I'm hoping MarJo can recover from this.






Shoulder doesn't appear to make any connection to the head nor Mojo's head hit any part of the ice.

Looks to me like the Whip-Lash affect may have scrambled something.

Yup, the brain is still moving at high speed when the rest of your body is suddenly stopped. I pray it’s just a shoulder/collarbone for him, but that neck snap is concerning.

 

[mtnet]

Poor MoJo can't catch a break, hope he'll be alright

 

[devilsblood]

Yup, the brain is still moving at high speed when the rest of your body is suddenly stopped. I pray it’s just a shoulder/collarbone for him, but that neck snap is concerning.

Was he knocked loopy?

 

[FooteBahl]

Was he knocked loopy?

I’m not sure. The video I saw of him skating off the ice he was hunched over favoring his left arm.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I also feel dirty for agreeing with you.

But it is what it is.

You know - people keep lauding the strides the league has taken in getting rid of 'goonery' - but with the size of players, and the speed that they are playing at, and the perceived 'safety' of today's new NHL - we're just going to see more of this... and stick swinging... and boarding...

In the old days, Mojo would have dipped the shoulders and Ferland would have to consider the future of his knees when running a player like that. Or he'd have to consider the value of his face hitting someone's fist after the play. I thought it would make alot of players think twice.

Also - Mojo needs to be cognizant of the danger. He's a professional, and it isn't like this is the first time he's entered a zone with his head down.

But... I'll just go yell at these clouds.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Johansson still in the hospital as of two hours ago.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Yikes. I hope Mojo recovers. Seems to be a curse to get traded to a new team this season.

 

[glenwo2]

I’m not sure. The video I saw of him skating off the ice he was hunched over favoring his left arm.

If he was favoring his left arm, then there's a hopeful possibility, it's not a concussion....

 

[devilsblood]

You know - people keep lauding the strides the league has taken in getting rid of 'goonery' - but with the size of players, and the speed that they are playing at, and the perceived 'safety' of today's new NHL - we're just going to see more of this... and stick swinging... and boarding...

In the old days, Mojo would have dipped the shoulders and Ferland would have to consider the future of his knees when running a player like that. Or he'd have to consider the value of his face hitting someone's fist after the play. I thought it would make alot of players think twice.

Also - Mojo needs to be cognizant of the danger. He's a professional, and it isn't like this is the first time he's entered a zone with his head down.

But... I'll just go yell at these clouds.

Are we saying that there were not big hits like this in the old days?

 

[Japam]

Mojo has a lung contusion. Bummer

 

[NJDevs26]

The guy can't catch a break...you'd think oh great he doesn't have a concussion but then he STILL has a serious injury.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Mojo has a lung contusion. Bummer

That’s actually fantastic news. If that was another concussion his career might have ended last night.

 

[Darkauron]

Thank god it wasnt a concussion

 

[billingtons ghost]

Are we saying that there were not big hits like this in the old days?

No I'm saying that:
1. there were repercussions
2. players were self-policing
3. players didn't have a false sense of security that injury would be prevented. There is this fallacy that 'illegal hits' are the only ones that cause injury.
4. players are bigger, stronger and faster

I think the fact is that the last item is probably the most important - but I think you're seeing some 'cheaper' retribution hits since guys aren't settling things with their fists. I also think that the creativity and improved open-ice flow that are making the game more enjoyable to watch and boosting scoring is also giving a false sense of safety - and also the fact that you cannot effectively obstruct and slow players down means that there is more overall speed in the game -and therefore bigger impacts.

It's the same thing in all sports - the human body isn't built to take the punishing hits that the larger bodies and faster speeds (more momentum) are introducing. That's why there's a big rise in rugby deaths too...

edit: I'll also say i don't really remember SKILL players getting bashed at quite the same pace. It seemed like the 4th liners would go after each other - it wasn't really this Marchand/Tom Wilson-esque preying upon skill players. And guys wouldn't run each other if they knew Probert was coming.

 

[My3Sons]

No I'm saying that:
1. there were repercussions
2. players were self-policing
3. players didn't have a false sense of security that injury would be prevented. There is this fallacy that 'illegal hits' are the only ones that cause injury.
4. players are bigger, stronger and faster

I think the fact is that the last item is probably the most important - but I think you're seeing some 'cheaper' retribution hits since guys aren't settling things with their fists. I also think that the creativity and improved open-ice flow that are making the game more enjoyable to watch and boosting scoring is also giving a false sense of safety - and also the fact that you cannot effectively obstruct and slow players down means that there is more overall speed in the game -and therefore bigger impacts.

It's the same thing in all sports - the human body isn't built to take the punishing hits that the larger bodies and faster speeds (more momentum) are introducing. That's why there's a big rise in rugby deaths too...

It’s basic physics. Force equals mass times acceleration and today’s players probably have a bit less mass on average but more than make up for it with the acceleration.

 

[Bleedred]

Johnny Mac was towards the end of his career (34yrs old) and wanted to get paid for what came before - he was disgruntled at the offers Lou was giving him, as Lou had his eyes on getting us a few more cups before the windows were closing on Stevens et al. Rightfully, Lou thought of him as a moveable and replaceable piece. He also rightfully took some of the blame of the disaster of missing the playoffs during the cup hangover in 96.

Like I said, I don't fault JMac's thinking - and in reality he owed the Devils (and fans?!?) nothing - but it doesn't take much to see that he enjoyed thinking he was sticking it to the Devils by going to the arch rivals - and I personally think him less of a person because of it. He owes nothing to the fans? I owe nothing to him.

I don't get the feeling he was sticking it to the Devils by that point. I think he was mad initially, but I think within another 6 months or so he was probably over it. And who knows if the Flyers or Islanders were offering deals to him?

I'm glad he wasn't kept at the time, as he was pretty bad by the end of that Rangers contract and that would have coincided with our 2000 cup. He was still good in the 99=00 season, but we had enough older players by that point and if he were around, he might have been in the same role that someone better than him wound up having on the 2000 cup team.

 

[Bleedred]

What's the prognosis on a lung contusion? Is this like a rest of the season thing?

 

[devilsblood]

No I'm saying that:
1. there were repercussions
2. players were self-policing
3. players didn't have a false sense of security that injury would be prevented. There is this fallacy that 'illegal hits' are the only ones that cause injury.
4. players are bigger, stronger and faster

I think the fact is that the last item is probably the most important - but I think you're seeing some 'cheaper' retribution hits since guys aren't settling things with their fists. I also think that the creativity and improved open-ice flow that are making the game more enjoyable to watch and boosting scoring is also giving a false sense of safety - and also the fact that you cannot effectively obstruct and slow players down means that there is more overall speed in the game -and therefore bigger impacts.

It's the same thing in all sports - the human body isn't built to take the punishing hits that the larger bodies and faster speeds (more momentum) are introducing. That's why there's a big rise in rugby deaths too...

edit: I'll also say i don't really remember SKILL players getting bashed at quite the same pace. It seemed like the 4th liners would go after each other - it wasn't really this Marchand/Tom Wilson-esque preying upon skill players. And guys wouldn't run each other if they knew Probert was coming.

Yeah I dunno, I find it odd that a Devil fan would act like there weren't big hits on skilled players back in the day.

I'll agree the game has gotten faster tough.

 

[NJDevs26]

The rub is yes players are bigger and faster on the whole but you also have a lot more midgets in the game now cause of the present-day emphasis on skill than you did twenty-thirty years ago. Ergo a lot more bigger, faster guys can plow into smaller guys and bad things happen.

Yikes. I hope Mojo recovers. Seems to be a curse to get traded to a new team this season.

Just wait till these injuries start happening right before the deadline as opposed to right after, GM's will really start jumping the gun trading in early February then

 

[devilsblood]

The guy can't catch a break...you'd think oh great he doesn't have a concussion but then he STILL has a serious injury.

ya, lung contusion sounds pretty scary, especially with him still being in the hospital.

If it were a broken collarbone I'd probably feel better.

 

[Triumph]

No I'm saying that:
1. there were repercussions

A: Okay, great, so the cycle of violence just continued endlessly.

2. players were self-policing

See A.

3. players didn't have a false sense of security that injury would be prevented. There is this fallacy that 'illegal hits' are the only ones that cause injury.

B: I doubt there is anything of the kind.

4. players are bigger, stronger and faster

They are stronger and faster. I do not think they are bigger.

I think the fact is that the last item is probably the most important - but I think you're seeing some 'cheaper' retribution hits since guys aren't settling things with their fists. I also think that the creativity and improved open-ice flow that are making the game more enjoyable to watch and boosting scoring is also giving a false sense of safety - and also the fact that you cannot effectively obstruct and slow players down means that there is more overall speed in the game -and therefore bigger impacts.

This idea that retribution stopped hits like this is just the purest fantasy. Who stopped Scott Stevens from doing this semi-routinely? Who was Scott Stevens afraid of? And that goes for any of the guys who made these big hits all the time - it's a painful game and sometimes pain is the price a player pays to inflict pain on someone else.

It's the same thing in all sports - the human body isn't built to take the punishing hits that the larger bodies and faster speeds (more momentum) are introducing. That's why there's a big rise in rugby deaths too...

edit: I'll also say i don't really remember SKILL players getting bashed at quite the same pace. It seemed like the 4th liners would go after each other - it wasn't really this Marchand/Tom Wilson-esque preying upon skill players. And guys wouldn't run each other if they knew Probert was coming.

This is again, fantasy. If your team has Probert, why wouldn't you run someone with impunity in this scenario? He can beat up their guy if that guy messes with you, so where's the check on that? That Probert doesn't like doing other people's dirty work? It's a justice system that frankly could not have worked and it didn't.