Around the League 20-21 Thread: Playoffs Edition

[Raccoon Jesus]

How about having a historic season in one of the NHL's best feeder leagues and then almost immediately stepping onto an NHL teams 1st line, after a brief cup of coffee domination of the NHL's best feeder league? I mean at what point do we just concede that the (I admit valid) concerns at the time are just not. Players who aren't going to be stars very rarely look like that in the AHL in D+2 or play on the 1st line of a playoff team.

You got to stop with the hater stuff. I don't hate Turcotte, I have said numerous times I wish the Kings had gone in another direction, that does not mean I hate him. You know how highly I think of both Caufield and Zegras, so why does me saying I think they are better prospects hating? I mean, that is kind of a consensus view outside of this board, you can disagree with it but atleast acknowledge it. I also think they are better than Kaako and Dach, does that make me a Dach hater? Damn a couple of weeks ago you accused me of overhyping Dach.

I conceded that a long time ago. I was just pointing out that if your argument is that Caufield is awesome because he's producing in the playoffs, that's not the argument you want to rely on, because his production isn't commensurate with his potential abilities. That's all.

There's plenty of other evidence that he's a phenom.

 

[Herby]

I conceded that a long time ago. I was just pointing out that if your argument is that Caufield is awesome because he's producing in the playoffs, that's not the argument you want to rely on, because his production isn't commensurate with his potential abilities. That's all.

There's plenty of other evidence that he's a phenom.

Then why do you get pissed at me when I say I'd take him (and Zegras) over Turcotte?

I just don't get where the hater stuff comes from. Where does the "You'd be ripping Turcotte" stuff come from?

I have never in 2 decades posting here ripped on a 19/20 year old player for scoring .5 PPG as an NHL rookie. That is just tough to do, not many players do it, and the ones that do almost always turn into scoring stars in the league. I respect you and know you are one of the smart and informed ones and understand this fact, just curious why you reply to my posts but don't bother to correct the "Fizzle out" crowd by pointing out that fact that D+2 players scoring at that rate very rarely "fizzle out"

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Just toys. Don't make a difference in winning.

And Kucherov just toyed with the Islanders.

 

[deeshamrock]

Cheating again...too many men on the ice...and they score.

 

[Herby]

And Kucherov just toyed with the Islanders.

I wish Ziggy had been able to play with people like this in his prime. That is who Kucherov reminds me of, just so many ways to beat you in the offensive zone. Poor Ziggy was stuck playing for mostly bad teams and people like Armstrong in the dead puck era. He'd be amazing today with the way the game is played.

As for Kucherov, some of the passes he has made in these playoffs, seriously Gretzky'esque. What a brilliant player. No one is McDavid but he deserves to be mentioned in the next tier.

 

[lumbergh]

I like what Buffalo is doing now. The scorched Earth tear it down strategy.

They will get two top 10 picks this year, one of which being a perfect compliment to Dahlin. Say they trade with the Kings for Reinart and get Johnson with the pick. They likely get a few good young pieces from whoever trades for Eichel, say hypothetically they were to get Kaako as the big piece from NYR.

Suddenly they have

Dahlin (21)
Power (18)
K. Johnson (18)
Kaako (20)
Cozens (20)
R. Johnson (20)

They send Power and Johnson back to school for a year and field what will almost surely be the worst team in the NHL. They are in position to draft Wright, Lambert or Savoie in 2022 all of whom look like they could have star potential.

They are terrible again in 2022-2023 and are suddenly in a position to hit the jackpot with Bedard or Michkov who both look like they have generational potential. You know a draft is loaded when someone like Adam Fantilli is projected to go #3.

After the 2023 draft (only 2 short years from now) they have

Bedard/Michkov/Fantilli (18). (#1, #2, or #3 OA picks)
Wright/Lamber/Savoie (19) (#1, #2, #3 OA picks)
Kaako (22) (#2OA pick)
Dahlin (23) (#1 OA pick)
Power (20) (#1 OA pick)
K. Johnson (20) (Top 10 pick)
Cozens (22) (Top 10 pick)
R. Johnson (1st round pick)

This is why scorched Earth is better to do than what Blake has done. Buffalo has a stronger more loyal fanbase than LA though, that city has suffered with it's two teams for decades, easier to sell a laughable team for a couple of years to end up with something like this.

Buffalo will be the envy of the league 5 years from now if their management goes scorched Earth.

After the 2023 season Dahlin will be asking to be traded, having never come within sniffing distance of the playoffs his entire career. Fans in Buffalo will be demanding the new GM be fired, for the third year in a row. A team cannot continue to lose year after year after year after year. At some point the losing becomes your identity.

 

[SFKingshomer]

After the 2023 season Dahlin will be asking to be traded, having never come within sniffing distance of the playoffs his entire career. Fans in Buffalo will be demanding the new GM be fired, for the third year in a row. A team cannot continue to lose year after year after year after year. At some point the losing becomes your identity.

They need a Dean Lombardi cleanse from top to bottom. Trade Eichel and Reinhart for culture guys.

 

[Bandit]

You’d be incensed if that call was made against the Kings, as would I. Terrible call.

Possibly, but since I’m able to remove my irrational fandom from the equation on this one I can see that he’s gotta at least try to get out of the way.

Just toys. Don't make a difference in winning.

Who said that about Point or Kucherov? Caufield is a different player, because of the spelling, and 3 or 4 inches.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I guess we forgot the LAPD line eh

 

[King'sPawn]

Nope not as long as you can. I think Buffalo can trade Reinart and Eichel, be horrible in the next 2 years and then be ready to roll. But I also don't believe in the super slow rebuild like some here do, if you get the right impact players it can be turned around quickly. They are then loaded with elite young players mostly on ELC's. They are so loaded they can do what Blake should do if he won't scorch Earth and trade a couple of pieces for a veteran in his prime. You still have a loaded system and now you have the cap freedom to add to it. You also have the cap space to bring in quality older veterans who are good in the room, you know like Dean did with the Kings in his early years. No one is suggesting to run with a team full of guys under 23.

It's not strictly first overall picks, the odds are Buffalo will not get a 1st overall pick, but being the worst team guarantees you no worse than the 3, the 3 is going to provide an opportunity to draft potential superstars in the next 2 drafts. They know this, that is why they are unloading Reinart. The higher you draft the more likely you are to draft an elite player, again I know that you know this. Why would they not try and tank to draft those players, does having stupid seasons like the Kings had in 15, 17, and 21 help you in any way? Of the Top 25 scorers in the NHL this year 12 were taken with Top 4 picks.

You cite Raty, yes one example for sure. But for the most part the best players in the league were all identified as younger players, sure some fall through the cracks and to quote a popular word "fizzle out" but most don't, I know you know that. The odds of any of those players not being elite prospects on their draft night are very slim.

I am a believer that players win championships, not managers. Dean Lombardi won squat in SJ and suddenly comes to LA inherits two hall of fame players, drafts another and wins. He hasn't been able to find a GM job since. Ray Shero inherits three Hall of Fame players, wins a championship and is laughably bad in his next spot. John Muckler and Glen Sather in Edmonton, never won squat without their Hall of Famers. Dale Tallon wins a championship in Chicago with his Hall of Fame core, goes to Florida and can't do anything.

I don't disagree that picking the right young players win championships.

I disagree that the Sabres haven't had enough opportunity to grab them before deciding there's something else fundamentally wrong with the organization.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Dean Lombardi won squat in SJ and suddenly comes to LA inherits two hall of fame players, drafts another and wins. He hasn't been able to find a GM job since.

Nobody has really won wherever DL left, Minnesota North Stars ended up going to Dallas, San Jose never got over the hump, Kings never won a playoff game since DL left etc. DL guys still get hired in this league.

No doubt that DL could get a job if he wanted but he has turned down interviews and offers. Wasn’t interested in Buffalo, Edmonton, Vancouver etc. He took it pretty hard when San Jose fired him, yet they kept his staff and structure that he built in place, ditto LA/AEG.

He was really into it and so he probably was hurt and just got emotionally burned out. He’s just working on projects and lending an ear for the Philadelphia GM and that ownership. I don’t think he will be a GM again unless Boston (his favorite team) comes calling and even if they called, probably wouldn’t do it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Looks like Tampa Bay isn’t afraid of dishing out some physicality on top of their offensive punch. Realistically, they’re the only team remaining that can match up against the Golden Knights.

 

[Herby]

Looks like Tampa Bay isn’t afraid of dishing out some physicality on top of their offensive punch. Realistically, they’re the only team remaining that can match up against the Golden Knights.

I don't think things are over yet for either of the other teams. This is the NHL playoffs, anything can happen. Carey Price could steal a game 2-1 tomorrow and suddenly they are going home tied at 1.

The Islanders did what they had to and the Mausoleum will be crazy in a couple of nights.

BTW how crazy is it they are still playing there in 2021? Imagine the Kings still at the Forum.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I don't think things are over yet for either of the other teams. This is the NHL playoffs, anything can happen. Carey Price could steal a game 2-1 tomorrow and suddenly they are going home tied at 1.

The Islanders did what they had to and the Mausoleum will be crazy in a couple of nights.

BTW how crazy is it they are still playing there in 2021? Imagine the Kings still at the Forum.

I think their new building is still being constructed, but they had to get out of the new dump. The at least the old dump has atmosphere.

 

[Herby]

Nobody has really won wherever DL left, Minnesota North Stars ended up going to Dallas, San Jose never got over the hump, Kings never won a playoff game since DL left etc. DL guys still get hired in this league.

No doubt that DL could get a job if he wanted but he has turned down interviews and offers. Wasn’t interested in Buffalo, Edmonton, Vancouver etc. He took it pretty hard when San Jose fired him, yet they kept his staff and structure that he built in place, ditto LA/AEG.

He was really into it and so he probably was hurt and just got emotionally burned out. He’s just working on projects and lending an ear for the Philadelphia GM and that ownership. I don’t think he will be a GM again unless Boston (his favorite team) comes calling and even if they called, probably wouldn’t do it.

Fair enough, I don't know what jobs he has wanted or turned down, other than the rumored Vancouver one a couple of years ago. I'm inclined to believe you are right since his LA run mirrored what Chiarelli and Shero did in Boston and Pittsburgh (great initial success followed by terrible mismanagement and a collapse) and both those guys got another chance. I think they were all hired right about the same time in 2006.

My point was that his success was the result of having 3 Hall of Fame players and building around them correctly. That should and has been the foundation point for the vast majority of championship teams for decades. Get your superstars and build around them, Bolby apparently has other ideas, but he likes to buck the trends on a lot of things.

 

[Herby]

I think their new building is still being constructed, but they had to get out of the new dump. The at least the old dump has atmosphere.

Yeah they are getting a new arena by Belmont.

I saw the Kings play there a couple of times when I lived in NY, which feels like a lifetime ago. I love that it's still kicking, even if it was fixed up a couple years ago.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't think things are over yet for either of the other teams. This is the NHL playoffs, anything can happen. Carey Price could steal a game 2-1 tomorrow and suddenly they are going home tied at 1.

The Islanders did what they had to and the Mausoleum will be crazy in a couple of nights.

BTW how crazy is it they are still playing there in 2021? Imagine the Kings still at the Forum.

I do wish they would play some exhibition games at The Forum, like the last game played there where the Kings destroyed the Ducks, but that's unlikely to happen.

 

[Herby]

I do wish they would play some exhibition games at The Forum, like the last game played there where the Kings destroyed the Ducks, but that's unlikely to happen.

I remember that!

Aki Aki Aki Aki!

Only the Kings win the lottery and have the guys career highlight be an exhibition game.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Islanders in 6.

 

[kingsfan28]

Cheating again...too many men on the ice...and they score.

Just flat out stupid allowing it to happen. If Vegas did it, I wouldn't have been surprised.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Nobody has really won wherever DL left, Minnesota North Stars ended up going to Dallas, San Jose never got over the hump, Kings never won a playoff game since DL left etc. DL guys still get hired in this league.

No doubt that DL could get a job if he wanted but he has turned down interviews and offers. Wasn’t interested in Buffalo, Edmonton, Vancouver etc. He took it pretty hard when San Jose fired him, yet they kept his staff and structure that he built in place, ditto LA/AEG.

He was really into it and so he probably was hurt and just got emotionally burned out. He’s just working on projects and lending an ear for the Philadelphia GM and that ownership. I don’t think he will be a GM again unless Boston (his favorite team) comes calling and even if they called, probably wouldn’t do it.

This makes me miss Lombardi. I never supported a GM like I did with him because he was open to the fans and seems so genuine. He has a huge heart and that hurts in this business. He has his flaws and it was time to move on but I can see why players love him. You could tell the stress was getting to him. The Richards, Voynov, and Stoll stuff aged him about 10 years. I truly hope he’s invited to a legends night. What he did on and off the ice can’t be understated.

 

[YP44]

That and the Oilers had #1 in mediocre to terrible drafts.

RNH and Hall were good picks.

Nail was the patrick Stephan. but at least Patrick S had a long career.

 

[raswilliam]

This makes me miss Lombardi. I never supported a GM like I did with him because he was open to the fans and seems so genuine. He has a huge heart and that hurts in this business. He has his flaws and it was time to move on but I can see why players love him. You could tell the stress was getting to him. The Richards, Voynov, and Stoll stuff aged him about 10 years. I truly hope he’s invited to a legends night. What he did on and off the ice can’t be understated.

dudes sports coat needs to be raised in the staples center rafters

 

[Herby]

Islanders in 6.

It's the SC playoffs. We might as well create the who you got, Islanders vs. Habs SC final poll.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

This makes me miss Lombardi. I never supported a GM like I did with him because he was open to the fans and seems so genuine. He has a huge heart and that hurts in this business. He has his flaws and it was time to move on but I can see why players love him. You could tell the stress was getting to him. The Richards, Voynov, and Stoll stuff aged him about 10 years. I truly hope he’s invited to a legends night. What he did on and off the ice can’t be understated.

DL was PISSED in his coffee with Bob interview. He couldn’t figure it out but also acknowledged that the hardest thing to do is to stay on top after winning it. He read a lot of books, had conversations with Kraft and the Patriots organization, same with the Lakers etc.

Hopefully he’s honored but I’m looking forward to that book he said he was going to write.