Around the League 20-21 Thread: Playoffs Edition

[deaderhead28]

Brown started skating from behind the goal line, didn't slow down and hit Sedin at the far blue line when Sedin didn't expect it. If distance traveled and violent hit defines charging, then Brown's hit on Sedin is charging under the new interpretation of the rule.

No not the same hit not the same speed or thrust into the player.Look I understand some just can't let the Scheifele charge go,but trying to defend it will never change the events or punishment that followed.

 

[deaderhead28]

Delete

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Brown started skating from behind the goal line, didn't slow down and hit Sedin at the far blue line when Sedin didn't expect it. If distance traveled and violent hit defines charging, then Brown's hit on Sedin is charging under the new interpretation of the rule.

How can you even compare the two hits? Is Brown going at full speed and fully aware that Sedin is going to stop and turn into him as he's coming in for the hit?


If you watch Sedin, he looks over his shoulder and sees Kopitar coming in to his left, and Brown is already committed to hitting Sedin from the side (starting at the :04 to :05 mark). The timing of Sedin turning and Brown connecting is what made the impact worse for Henrik.

That isn't a charge, and Brown isn't skating at top speed until he connects with Sedin. I don't see how that hit is in any way, shape or form similar to the Scheifele hit.

It's evident some of you don't even know what a charging penalty is and have your own interpretation of it.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It's tough....because if you take it in a vaccuum...just the hit and no context, I can make an argument that it was clean violating no rules etc. But given that Schiefele was visually frustrated the entire game, I'm not happy with that hit, it was unnecessary, predatory, and violent. And I actually like most of those things. This one just felt....off, given the context and the timing of it.

 

[Jason Squirties]

I would absolutely not be shocked if that was called a charge in today's game because yes, ref's have their own interpretation of it as well.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

You guys are really dating yourselves. It's cute, in an old fart sort of way.

Hey I’m 33, just happened to have a John Wayne phase in my preteen years.

 

[BigKing]

How can you even compare the two hits? Is Brown going at full speed and fully aware that Sedin is going to stop and turn into him as he's coming in for the hit?


If you watch Sedin, he looks over his shoulder and sees Kopitar coming in to his left, and Brown is already committed to hitting Sedin from the side (starting at the :04 to :05 mark). The timing of Sedin turning and Brown connecting is what made the impact worse for Henrik.

That isn't a charge, and Brown isn't skating at top speed until he connects with Sedin. I don't see how that hit is in any way, shape or form similar to the Scheifele hit.

It's evident some of you don't even know what a charging penalty is and have your own interpretation of it.

Is there a speed limit? Scheifele coasted into the hit like Brown. What they have in common is that both players traveled a long distance and made a violent hit. This is what is being used against Scheifele to say it is a "textbook" charge.

Those that don't think the Scheifele hit was clean are really clinging to the rule book on this one to talk about what a charging penalty is but they are ignoring how the rule has actually been applied for basically the entire history of the NHL.

Even nancy-boy Jim Fox looks at the hit and doesn't know what Scheifele technically did wrong. This is a wuss that kept his gloves on the entire time during a 5 v 5 brawl for like five minutes in the 80s. He looks at the hit and is like...what did Schefiele do wrong?

Can the league call it charging based on the rule book? Yes. They have and then they punished the player based on the hit being illegal because it was charging and caused a major injury. The entire point about being upset with the decision is that the literal definition of charging applies to the majority of hits so it us usually only called when a player leaves his feet or continues to take strides into a hit.

This is like getting Al Capone for tax evasion instead of the real crimes. People don't like the hit but there isn't an elbow, headshot or any of the other things that are illegal so now all of a sudden everyone knows the exact wording of charging in the rule book and acts like that's how it is f***ing implemented in real life. Got to hang Scheifele somehow so let's just ignore all of the circumstances surrounding the hit and become intimately familiar with the exact wording of what constitutes charging in the rule book simply because we don't like the result of the hit, don't think he had to do it or both.

The hit is technically sound. He's being punished for simply hitting someone too hard.

 

[Fishhead]

Scheifele committed a clear charge.He skated at a high rate of speed for over 160ft and never made the attempt to play the puck or slow down.He also hit Evans after the punk was in the net.I think it deserved suspension for the entire series,but 4 games is ok as well..No the Browns hit was legal and they were not alike...

Brown made a beeline for Sedin as well, and when he started sticking his arm out for impact he could clearly see Sedin's numbers. Brown never attempted to make a play on the puck either, and the puck was off Sedin's stick longer than it was off Evans. Sedin was in a far more vulnerable position with his back turned, not to mention he was right up against the boards.

Brown's hit was worse than Scheifle's in many ways, the biggest difference was that Brown wasn't going quite as fast and that the outcome was drastically different. I've actually thought of this many times since it happened, because I think if that happened now it's a penalty for sure. And if Sedin got injured and missed time, it would be a suspension. It checks all the boxes. Player in a vulnerable position where he can't see the other guy coming, player within a few feet of the boards with numbers visible, Brown didn't deviate from his pathway directly to the player, he didn't attempt to play the puck in any way. It pretty much hits every single part of the DOPS explanation of why Scheifle was suspended.

There is just a huge grey area with these kinds of things and there is always going to be arguments, especially with emotions and eye-test variations between people. I can see the Scheifle hit going either way, but that Brown hit was just as brutal and I'm a Kings fan. I couldn't care less about WPG or MTL or either player involved, so I don't have a dog in that race.

 

[tbrown33]

Brown's hit was worse than Scheifle's in many ways, the biggest difference was that Brown wasn't going quite as fast and that the outcome was drastically different.

"Not quite as fast" is an understatement. Scheifele had a full head of steam due to distance traveled. Brown was coasting through the neutral zone. Hit needs to be violent "as a result of" distance traveled. Arguable in Brown's case, sure, but it's clear as day in Scheifele's.

He also hit the guy straight in the head.

 

[Sam]

There was another similar hit, minus the result, 2 years ago with Krug on Thomas. No penalty, no supplemental discipline.

 

[tbrown33]

There was another similar hit, minus the result, 2 years ago with Krug on Thomas. No penalty, no supplemental discipline.

Definitely a charge, and he left his feet. Head is not principle point of contact.

 

[BigKing]

Definitely a charge, and he left his feet. Head is not principle point of contact.

His feet left the ice due to the force of the hit: he didn't jump into the hit.

It wasn't called a charge because, again, they don't factor in speed/distance to whether something is a charge. The rulebook states it but NHL refs don't call it that way.

The difference in these two hits is the size difference between the hitters and, more importantly, Thomas was aware of his surroundings.

Just an awesome hockey play. St. Louis was so mad about this egregious charge that they signed him as a free agent afterwards.

 

[tbrown33]

His feet left the ice due to the force of the hit: he didn't jump into the hit.

It wasn't called a charge because, again, they don't factor in speed/distance to whether something is a charge. The rulebook states it but NHL refs don't call it that way.

The difference in these two hits is the size difference between the hitters and, more importantly, Thomas was aware of his surroundings.

Just an awesome hockey play. St. Louis was so mad about this egregious charge that they signed him as a free agent afterwards.

I mean, it's not at all the same play. Are we litigating every big hit in hockey history now as some sort of barometer WRT the one that happened two days ago? If you want to argue if something's a minor penalty or not, ok. Who cares. Has nothing to do with the Scheifele hit. He hit a guy in the head at full speed. You don't get suspended for a charging minor, which is arguably/arguably not what Krug or Brown did. I would say the Krug play is a 2 minute minor for charging. Brown's could go either way. How is the head getting hit not the biggest difference.

 

[Master Yoda]

I mean, it's not at all the same play. Are we litigating every big hit in hockey history now as some sort of barometer WRT the one that happened two days ago? If you want to argue if something's a minor penalty or not, ok. Who cares. Has nothing to do with the Scheifele hit. He hit a guy in the head at full speed. You don't get suspended for a charging minor, which is arguably/arguably not what Krug or Brown did. I would say the Krug play is a 2 minute minor for charging. Brown's could go either way. How is the head getting hit not the biggest difference.

The DoPS videos showed there was some contact with the head, but it didn't seem like it was the main point of contact. The suspension wasn't even based on the head contact.
The penalty was a charging major and the suspension was based on the play being a charge and the resulting injury.
And the charge, by the definition we're using is a violent contact as a result of distance traveled.
All the examples we're citing are violent contacts as a result of distance traveled, none of which were even assessed a minor penalty.

 

[BigKing]

I mean, it's not at all the same play. Are we litigating every big hit in hockey history now as some sort of barometer WRT the one that happened two days ago? If you want to argue if something's a minor penalty or not, ok. Who cares. Has nothing to do with the Scheifele hit. He hit a guy in the head at full speed. You don't get suspended for a charging minor, which is arguably/arguably not what Krug or Brown did. I would say the Krug play is a 2 minute minor for charging. Brown's could go either way. How is the head getting hit not the biggest difference.

But you can hit the head if it isn't the principal point of contact. This wasn't a head shot so, yes, we are litigating every big hit in hockey history where charging wasn't called on a violent hit delivered after travelling a great distance.

That's the point. Technically, the hit was perfectly fine just insanely hard. The argument over Evans needing to be aware of the situation, Scheifele should have poked check etc...is just window dressing. Evans was eligible to be hit and he was. The hitter did not target the head, did not jump into the hit and did not actively skate into the hit. The problem was it was just a ruthless hit and people are upset because nobody likes to see a kid laying facedown on the ice and then get carted off on a stretcher.

There is a giant element of "he shouldn't have made the hit" that colors the entire argument but he was well within his rights to make that hit legally which some of us believe he did. The morality of making the hit is a side argument that should have zero impact on the penalty but the suspension handed down is purely emotional and results based v. process. At the end of the day, most people are fine with whatever it is based on as long as he pays for the hit whereas I am greatly concerned about the process and how it effects the game moving forward. The league has just used the nebulous charging language in the rule book to--for the first time--penalize someone for hitting someone too hard.

 

[tbrown33]

The DoPS videos showed there was some contact with the head, but it didn't seem like it was the main point of contact. The suspension wasn't even based on the head contact.
The penalty was a charging major and the suspension was based on the play being a charge and the resulting injury.
And the charge, by the definition we're using is a violent contact as a result of distance traveled.
All the examples we're citing are violent contacts as a result of distance traveled, none of which were even assessed a minor penalty.

The suspension is based on the sum of its parts based on the video: "Scheifele, moving with excessive momentum over a considerable distance, finishes his check violently and with unwarranted force into Evans, making significant head contact in the process and causing an injury."

I am also not sure what the whataboutism on other hits is supposed to accomplish.

 

[justonetime]

Also reminds me of Neil on Boychuk and Phaneuf on Sauer. Those were longer ago and things have changed, but hits can be both violent and clean.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Jeff Carter is going to get plenty of ice time in Pittsburgh next season.

 

[Fishhead]

The suspension is based on the sum of its parts based on the video: "Scheifele, moving with excessive momentum over a considerable distance, finishes his check violently and with unwarranted force into Evans, making significant head contact in the process and causing an injury."

I am also not sure what the whataboutism on other hits is supposed to accomplish.

Well, in courts they use precedent all the time and it's usually highly effective. Past rulings have tremendous importance and judges take them into consideration with great weight.

We could all argue all day long on this board about which hits are suspendable and which ones aren't, that's just in the eye of the beholder and everyone would have valid points. But if there is one thing I've learned from all the suspensions handed down by the NHL, it's that it's not the hit that matters so much as any injury to the player being hit. I'm 100% certain that if you took two instances of the exact same hit, one where a player was injured and one where they popped right back up, the one with the injury would be far more likely to incur a penalty and review for suspension.

I think that's the most maddening thing, consistency looks to be impossible. It's one of those things that is going to get worse, too. When the Kings were trucking everyone, big heavy teams were the rage. Fans clamored for more speed and skill in the game. Well, now we have that and we are going to see more and more violent hits as players are moving at higher rates of speed. And honestly, I don't know how it can be addressed. I agree that Scheifle should miss some games, that was a brutal hit. But if Evans gets right up after it, I completely believe he could have gotten off with nothing but a warning.

 

[deeshamrock]

Suzuki and Caufield are really fun to watch, so fast and skilled.
Habs up 1-0 in the 2nd , Toffoli with a shortie.

Canadians are playing a good game.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Jeff Carter is going to get plenty of ice time in Pittsburgh next season.

Malkin seems to always be getting work done. He's like an old Pinto.

 

[Lt Dan]

Lol toffoli

 

[deeshamrock]

Malkin seems to always be getting work done. He's like an old Pinto.

Next year is his 16th season, has only played 82 games twice and not since 2009. Injury magnet.
Should have traded him a few years ago. When the youngest of your top 3 centers is 34, that's a problem.

Read today that the reason Nolan PAtrick changed agents is because he wants to be traded. Is not happy with the Flyers and hates the coach. Hexy drafted him, could be he trades for him. I think he needs a new team, expectations, pressue and Mishandling by Haks and AV haven't helped. NOt to dismiss the chronic migraines, that of course has affected him as well.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Dubois has done nothing for the Jets. That trade for Laine is looking worse and worse, despite what’s happened in Columbus.

 

[deeshamrock]

Lol toffoli

Got the GWG, Habs win 1-0, have the 2-0 lead in the series.
Could be it might be over before Weber and company get their sites lined up number 55