Around the League 20-21 Thread: Playoffs Edition

[Bandit]

Easily? The puck was guarded by Evans stick all the way. So he punishes him for the goal. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Yes easily, as the replay clearly shows.

 

[kilowatt]

I don't like that Schiefele hit at all because there was no attempt to even stop the goal. If there was, he would have been trying to play the puck and sliding to stop it from going in.

Instead, Scheifele said "the puck's already going in, so I'm just going to blow this guy up". I don't think there's room for that in today's hockey. I don't think the onus is on Evans there to protect his head or expect that he's about to get rocked. I'm all for big hits but not when guys are in vulnerable positions like that.

On the flip side, I don't like that the DoPS makes decisions based on injuries as the result of hits. It'll be interesting to see if there's a suspension, but I think there should be.

 

[kovacro]

Scheifele knew what he did was pretty bad. You could see the look on his face after he went into the tunnel on the Sportsnet broadcast.

Can’t believe people are even suggesting Evans is to blame on this.

 

[BigKing]

I already acknowledged that it wasn't the entire rink, but it was at least half of it, and more like 2/3 which is way too much.



And if Schieffle really wanted to prevent a goal he would have stuck his stick out and easily deflected the puck away. That wasn't what he was doing.

I knew someone would bring this up after they ran it during intermission.

Charging is one of the most nebulous calls in the sport and could be called on most every big hit. Like, a big hit on a dump in...is the forechecker starting at the dot in the zone already when he starts skating into the hit? Of course not because it is offsides. The forechecker is travelling a great distance from at least the blue line.

Charging is usually only called if someone leaves their feet prior to the hit or if they continue skating in to it. Scheifele didn't skate into the hit or leave his feet.

If we want to start quoting the rule book and wanting things called "by the book", there will never be any even strength hockey. Charging was called here due to the end result and not the actual play. I keep reading that they need to suspend intent and/or the play and not the result but here we have all result/fine play and it is still "suspend! suspend! suspend!". Not saying you are in that camp so no shade being tossed your way but the outrage crowd at every "questionable" play just want suspensions until nobody ever gets hurt from a hit or fight ever again. Sorry, but it is hockey. You can legislate out a lot of the cheap stuff and, let's be honest, they really have. When does it stop though?

As for stopping the goal, it doesn't matter because it wasn't late. His best chance to stop it with his stick involves him having to skate another stride to even have a chance and he still winds up bowling into him. He chose to make the hit which, in my opinion, is perfectly understandable and reasonable but it wound up looking like a VW Bug stalling out on a railroad crossing.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I knew someone would bring this up after they ran it during intermission.

Charging is one of the most nebulous calls in the sport and could be called on most every big hit. Like, a big hit on a dump in...is the forechecker starting at the dot in the zone already when he starts skating into the hit? Of course not because it is offsides. The forechecker is travelling a great distance from at least the blue line.

Charging is usually only called if someone leaves their feet prior to the hit or if they continue skating in to it. Scheifele didn't skate into the hit or leave his feet.

If we want to start quoting the rule book and wanting things called "by the book", there will never be any even strength hockey. Charging was called here due to the end result and not the actual play. I keep reading that they need to suspend intent and/or the play and not the result but here we have all result/fine play and it is still "suspend! suspend! suspend!". Not saying you are in that camp so no shade being tossed your way but the outrage crowd at every "questionable" play just want suspensions until nobody ever gets hurt from a hit or fight ever again. Sorry, but it is hockey. You can legislate out a lot of the cheap stuff and, let's be honest, they really have. When does it stop though?

As for stopping the goal, it doesn't matter because it wasn't late. His best chance to stop it with his stick involves him having to skate another stride to even have a chance and he still winds up bowling into him. He chose to make the hit which, in my opinion, is perfectly understandable and reasonable but it wound up looking like a VW Bug stalling out on a railroad crossing.

MS has 20lbs and 3" on Evans.

 

[Bandit]

I knew someone would bring this up after they ran it during intermission.

Charging is one of the most nebulous calls in the sport and could be called on most every big hit. Like, a big hit on a dump in...is the forechecker starting at the dot in the zone already when he starts skating into the hit? Of course not because it is offsides. The forechecker is travelling a great distance from at least the blue line.

Charging is usually only called if someone leaves their feet prior to the hit or if they continue skating in to it. Scheifele didn't skate into the hit or leave his feet.

If we want to start quoting the rule book and wanting things called "by the book", there will never be any even strength hockey. Charging was called here due to the end result and not the actual play. I keep reading that they need to suspend intent and/or the play and not the result but here we have all result/fine play and it is still "suspend! suspend! suspend!". Not saying you are in that camp so no shade being tossed your way but the outrage crowd at every "questionable" play just want suspensions until nobody ever gets hurt from a hit or fight ever again. Sorry, but it is hockey. You can legislate out a lot of the cheap stuff and, let's be honest, they really have. When does it stop though?

As for stopping the goal, it doesn't matter because it wasn't late. His best chance to stop it with his stick involves him having to skate another stride to even have a chance and he still winds up bowling into him. He chose to make the hit which, in my opinion, is perfectly understandable and reasonable but it wound up looking like a VW Bug stalling out on a railroad crossing.

I’ve known about the rule since I was 15. Trust me, that was a very long time ago.

It was a bad hit. Schieffle was trying to hurt him and he did. He could have easily extended his stick and deflected the attempt before it even got to the front, but he didn’t really care about stopping the goal, so he didn’t. He got a major for it and the rule book is not on his side.

He should sit and even he knew it, but it’ll probably just cost him $50 because DoPS.

 

[Bandit]

Vegas looks a lot better this game, unfortunately.

 

[Herby]

We just have to accept the fact that any hit that results in a concussion is almost always illegal and very well may come with a suspension depending on the violence and force.

After watching the videos online, I think Bandit is exactly right with the "he was trying to hurt him thing", I think Scheifle realized he wasn't going to stop the goal but still delivered a violent hit to a pretty defenseless player. Whether it was frustration or trying to send a message, he went over the line.

 

[kovacro]

MacKinnon with a cap hit of only $6.3 million is f***ing ridiculous. He’s going to get seriously paid in a few years. He’s a beast.

 

[Bandit]

We just have to accept the fact that any hit that results in a concussion is almost always illegal and very well may come with a suspension depending on the violence and force.

After watching the videos online, I think Bandit is exactly right with the "he was trying to hurt him thing", I think Scheifle realized he wasn't going to stop the goal but still delivered a violent hit to a pretty defenseless player. Whether it was frustration or trying to send a message, he went over the line.

I mean look at his stick position:

he’s not trying to stop a goal.

 

[Bandit]

MacKinnon with a cap hit of only $6.3 million is f***ing ridiculous. He’s going to get seriously paid in a few years. He’s a beast.

He must be looking at Marner and wishing like f*** he was drafted by Toronto. Then again, he probably wants to win.

 

[kilowatt]

I knew someone would bring this up after they ran it during intermission.

Charging is one of the most nebulous calls in the sport and could be called on most every big hit. Like, a big hit on a dump in...is the forechecker starting at the dot in the zone already when he starts skating into the hit? Of course not because it is offsides. The forechecker is travelling a great distance from at least the blue line.

Charging is usually only called if someone leaves their feet prior to the hit or if they continue skating in to it. Scheifele didn't skate into the hit or leave his feet.

If we want to start quoting the rule book and wanting things called "by the book", there will never be any even strength hockey. Charging was called here due to the end result and not the actual play. I keep reading that they need to suspend intent and/or the play and not the result but here we have all result/fine play and it is still "suspend! suspend! suspend!". Not saying you are in that camp so no shade being tossed your way but the outrage crowd at every "questionable" play just want suspensions until nobody ever gets hurt from a hit or fight ever again. Sorry, but it is hockey. You can legislate out a lot of the cheap stuff and, let's be honest, they really have. When does it stop though?

As for stopping the goal, it doesn't matter because it wasn't late. His best chance to stop it with his stick involves him having to skate another stride to even have a chance and he still winds up bowling into him. He chose to make the hit which, in my opinion, is perfectly understandable and reasonable but it wound up looking like a VW Bug stalling out on a railroad crossing.

Hopefully it stops when guys stop getting stretchered off the ice because another dude was pissed about losing game one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[kilowatt]

I mean look at his stick position:

View attachment 442554

he’s not trying to stop a goal.

He probably could have stopped the goal, too.

 

[kovacro]

Love seeing Sampo Ranta get a taste o playoff action. Kid was solid this past season at Minnesota. Avs got another good one to develop.

 

[BigKing]

I’ve known about the rule since I was 15. Trust me, that was a very long time ago.

It was a bad hit. Schieffle was trying to hurt him and he did. He could have easily extended his stick and deflected the attempt before it even got to the front, but he didn’t really care about stopping the goal, so he didn’t. He got a major for it and the rule book is not on his side.

He should sit and even he knew it, but it’ll probably just cost him $50 because DoPS.

But isn't that the thing with big hits? They aren't intended to make the other player feel better. By definition, they are intended to hurt. Guys know that they can get hurt if they try to dipsy-doodle to the "high traffic areas" or skate with their heads down toward the front of the net. Why? Because they can get hit and a clean hit could knock you out for multiple games or more and you will possibly forever shy away from going to the front of the net or the high-traffic areas until you are out of the league or a current forward on the Kings roster.

I'm not going to argue that it was a bad hit. It was a total trucking and it is rare to see someone get hit that hard. We can argue if he should have hit him or or not due to a "lack of respect" but I feel he was within his rights to do so as long as he didn't elbow, leave his feet, completely target the head etc.

 

[Herby]

I mean look at his stick position:

View attachment 442554

he’s not trying to stop a goal.

No hockey play there. No place in the game to hit and injure someone like that.

We will see what the wheel says, but I think this warrants some sitting.

It reminded me of one of those hits you see in the NFL where a QB, RB or OL just gets lit up after an interception. Those have also been banned by the NFL.

 

[BigKing]

Hopefully it stops when guys stop getting stretchered off the ice because another dude was pissed about losing game one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I respect you and other posters that have this stance although I obviously staunchly disagree with it.

This is a hockey play not matter how much you want to Zapruder it and say "just use the stick and stop the goal". There are hockey plays that will always lead to guys, unfortunately, being stretchered off from time to time. That's part of the danger of this sport that makes it so special: high skill while at the same time high danger.

You want to stop this stuff from happening? Ban hitting until it is only beer league board rubs. As long as you can hit hard, people will get hurt.

@Herby mentioned the NFL earlier and I'll turn it on him since it goes both ways. Guys are still going to be carted off in the NFL--even on clean plays--because it is a gnarly sport. They can legislate out the Tatums and Lotts but its still a game built upon getting a guy on the ground at high speed. While not exactly the same, the NHL allows hitting and has 230 pounds guys skating at 20 MPH. Shit happens sometimes and the result is unfortunate but it doesn't mean any hit that leads to an injury is dirty: especially not under the bullshit guise of "He didn't have to do it".

 

[tny760]

all i really have to say is that you're very likely to be hit in that position and no matter how close you are to scoring you need to be aware that you could be hit while trying to score

i see literally nothing wrong with that hit even though it's an unbelievably hard one

 

[bland]

I knew someone would bring this up after they ran it during intermission.

Charging is one of the most nebulous calls in the sport and could be called on most every big hit. Like, a big hit on a dump in...is the forechecker starting at the dot in the zone already when he starts skating into the hit? Of course not because it is offsides. The forechecker is travelling a great distance from at least the blue line.

Charging is usually only called if someone leaves their feet prior to the hit or if they continue skating in to it. Scheifele didn't skate into the hit or leave his feet.

If we want to start quoting the rule book and wanting things called "by the book", there will never be any even strength hockey. Charging was called here due to the end result and not the actual play. I keep reading that they need to suspend intent and/or the play and not the result but here we have all result/fine play and it is still "suspend! suspend! suspend!". Not saying you are in that camp so no shade being tossed your way but the outrage crowd at every "questionable" play just want suspensions until nobody ever gets hurt from a hit or fight ever again. Sorry, but it is hockey. You can legislate out a lot of the cheap stuff and, let's be honest, they really have. When does it stop though?

As for stopping the goal, it doesn't matter because it wasn't late. His best chance to stop it with his stick involves him having to skate another stride to even have a chance and he still winds up bowling into him. He chose to make the hit which, in my opinion, is perfectly understandable and reasonable but it wound up looking like a VW Bug stalling out on a railroad crossing.

The way I see it, Schiefele knows that his only fleeting impact at stopping the goal there is to show big hit and hope against hope that Evans chickens out. He didn't to his full credit, and got railed by a guy who committed to an ugly, nasty, violent hit. A hit you know is coming and you have to take because its the playoffs. Messages, etc.

If you suspend him, its for the sheer violence, which I am torn about, because yeah, it wasn't really a penalty. But Schiefele knew he was blowing up a guy, and went for full value against a player who did decide to take the hit to make the play.

And hitting really boils down to two purposes - to make the opponent decide if he is willing to get hit hard to make the play or to panic and possibly turn over the puck in a disadvantageous spot. Are you going to be intimidated into a mistake? The other is attrition, simply injuring or wearing out your opponent.

This is just a really, really dramatic version of the consequences of a hockey play. Tomorrow, I am probably cool with it. Tonight, it's shocking violence.

 

[ru4reals]

MacKinnon is Freakin insane. He's incredible to watch.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I mean look at his stick position:

View attachment 442554

he’s not trying to stop a goal.

If it's hit all the way why is his stick even on the ice here?

 

[Bandit]

The way I see it, Schiefele knows that his only fleeting impact at stopping the goal there is to show big hit and hope against hope that Evans chickens out. He didn't to his full credit, and got railed by a guy who committed to an ugly, nasty, violent hit. A hit you know is coming and you have to take because its the playoffs. Messages, etc.

If you suspend him, its for the sheer violence, which I am torn about, because yeah, it wasn't really a penalty. But Schiefele knew he was blowing up a guy, and went for full value against a player who did decide to take the hit to make the play.

And hitting really boils down to two purposes - to make the opponent decide if he is willing to get hit hard to make the play or to panic and possibly turn over the puck in a disadvantageous spot. Are you going to be intimidated into a mistake? The other is attrition, simply injuring or wearing out your opponent.

This is just a really, really dramatic version of the consequences of a hockey play. Tomorrow, I am probably cool with it. Tonight, it's shocking violence.

Imagine if Evans saw Schieffle at the last second, ducked and MS goes Superman into the end boards full speed head first. Just an ugly move by MS. We’ll see what the league does.

 

[Herby]

Scheifele knew what he did was pretty bad. You could see the look on his face after he went into the tunnel on the Sportsnet broadcast.

Can’t believe people are even suggesting Evans is to blame on this.

Are you really surprised?

 

[bland]

I mean look at his stick position:

View attachment 442554

he’s not trying to stop a goal.

That's a cheap one though. How do you expect a guy going full tilt straight into what he knows is going to be a big, nasty contact - whether he tries to play the puck or not - to correctly read and react to how Evans maneuvers behind the net in less than a split second? No freeze frame has any value, you have to watch a full speed.

Schiefele pulled up, braced himself, and plowed him. Which isn't illegal, it's just brutal. Its malicious and definitely made with ill intent, but, I mean, he didn't charge him, he lined him up, but he didn't change anything to make the hit. How does he know that Evans isn't going to shy away, or brace himself, or fumble the puck or take a slightly different angle at that speed?

 

[Bandit]

That's a cheap one though. How do you expect a guy going full tilt straight into what he knows is going to be a big, nasty contact - whether he tries to play the puck or not - to correctly read and react to how Evans maneuvers behind the net in less than a split second? No freeze frame has any value, you have to watch a full speed.

Schiefele pulled up, braced himself, and plowed him. Which isn't illegal, it's just brutal. Its malicious and definitely made with ill intent, but, I mean, he didn't charge him, he lined him up, but he didn't change anything to make the hit. How does he know that Evans isn't going to shy away, or brace himself, or fumble the puck or take a slightly different angle at that speed?

If MS went for the poke they would have still run into each other absolutely, but the outcome would have been vastly different than him lowering his shoulder and going for the hardest possible hit.

And it was deemed illegal, which is why he got 5 and a game for it.