Around the League 20-21 Thread: Playoffs Edition

[WHOneedsSOX]

Scheifele was lucky it was cupcake Toffoli as the first guy to him. He's lucky it wasn't Weber.

 

[Bandit]

“he didn’t travel 200 feet!”

no, just goal line to goal line. What a difference.

 

[deeshamrock]

Absolute snipe show by Rantanen.

Insane. Having him and MacKinnon, ridiculous.

Money players.

 

[BringTheReign]

I'd been trying to think of why I love watching Rantanen play so much, and I finally figured it out with his OT winner tonight.

Rantanen is Kopitar if he never had to develop a Selke-level defensive acumen and was instead unleashed as an offensive weapon. The size, the hands, the vision, the puck protection, the powerful stride, and the absolute laser of a shot when he uses it, it's all there. Their line is so puck dominant and Landeskog is a great release valve that Rantanen is allowed to just be creative.

I don't wish a different style on Kopitar as we don't win 2 Cups without him as he is today, but damn, it's kind of cool to see another path taken in Rantanen.

 

[Bandit]

Yeah Rantanen is a machine. And just think that Colorado still has Kadri on ice. The guy is a douche but he’s a good hockey player when he plays.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I don't see the problem with that hit. Make players dependent on refs to stop getting hurt, and players will increasingly not be aware of their surroundings. Same as when guys turn from the boards so that they get hit in the numbers, and draw the penalty. You get that invincible feeling with that protective barrier.

 

[tny760]

sad

 

[kingsboy11]

I didn't mention it last night, but that was a bad hit by Scheifele. Morrow's hit on Kopi was different in that there wasn't head contact and it was just an unfortunate result. If take into consideration the score and Scheifele's frustration and the distance traveled and then the head contact, this seems like a no brainer suspension. I can understand he has every right to make that kind of hit, but I thought it was too much. I think he'll probably get a game or 2

 

[BigKing]

I didn't mention it last night, but that was a bad hit by Scheifele. Morrow's hit on Kopi was different in that there wasn't head contact and it was just an unfortunate result. If take into consideration the score and Scheifele's frustration and the distance traveled and then the head contact, this seems like a no brainer suspension. I can understand he has every right to make that kind of hit, but I thought it was too much. I think he'll probably get a game or 2

So we now have to legislate if a hit is too hard? The slippery slope keeps getting slipperier.

 

[KINGS17]

sad

How is that charging? Scheifele starts gliding in the slot, and never leaves his feet.

 

[Jason Squirties]

But isn't that the thing with big hits? They aren't intended to make the other player feel better. By definition, they are intended to hurt. Guys know that they can get hurt if they try to dipsy-doodle to the "high traffic areas" or skate with their heads down toward the front of the net. Why? Because they can get hit and a clean hit could knock you out for multiple games or more and you will possibly forever shy away from going to the front of the net or the high-traffic areas until you are out of the league or a current forward on the Kings roster.

I'm not going to argue that it was a bad hit. It was a total trucking and it is rare to see someone get hit that hard. We can argue if he should have hit him or or not due to a "lack of respect" but I feel he was within his rights to do so as long as he didn't elbow, leave his feet, completely target the head etc.

Agreeing with a lot of what you're saying here as per usual. What I haven't seen mentioned yet(still some pages to read) is whether Evans looks over his shoulder there before he heads around the netand sees Shiefle bearing down if he still tries to make that play. My guess is no.

 

[tny760]

How is that charging? Scheifele starts gliding in the slot, and never leaves his feet.

that's exactly how i feel. i've yet to find a convincing argument besides "guy got blown up, must be a penalty"

the rule itself is so ambiguous it's no surprise it only got called 12 times last season, probably all for similar nebulous hits where someone got hurt and they're like "uhhhh must be charging"

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How is that charging? Scheifele starts gliding in the slot, and never leaves his feet.

42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates, jumps into or charges an opponent in any manner. Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A “charge” may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.

Nothing in the rulebook states if the charging player is gliding or skating, it's about distance traveled.

 

[kingsboy11]

So we now have to legislate if a hit is too hard? The slippery slope keeps getting slipperier.

That's not what I said, there was clear head contact which is why I thought it was too much. Compare that to Morrow's hit where there wasn't head contact, but it looked worse than it actually ended up being and Kopi didn't miss a shift. Evans was clearly knocked out and has a concussion. Clear distinction there for me.

 

[tny760]

42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates, jumps into or charges an opponent in any manner. Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A “charge” may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.

Nothing in the rulebook states if the charging player is gliding or skating, it's about distance traveled.

where is the "start" point for distance travelled? the faceoff circle at the beginning of the shift? the bench? what if scheifele wasn't the first backchecker, evans continued around the boards and got laid out at the half boards by a late backchecker? probably travelled the same distance, just not by striding as hard as scheifele did. somehow that makes it different?

it's not as clear of a rule as you guys make it out to be, and there's a reason it's hardly ever called..

 

[Jason Squirties]

“he didn’t travel 200 feet!”

no, just goal line to goal line. What a difference.

Note to self : Don't skate back the length of the ice to prevent a goal, also do not hit anyone after coasting through the dots

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

where is the "start" point for distance travelled? the faceoff circle at the beginning of the shift? the bench? what if scheifele wasn't the first backchecker, evans continued around the boards and got laid out at the half boards by a late backchecker? probably travelled the same distance, just not by striding as hard as scheifele did. somehow that makes it different?

it's not as clear of a rule as you guys make it out to be, and there's a reason it's hardly ever called..

Where does the rule indicate a determination has to be made for a start point?

 

[Jason Squirties]

Sounds like Evans is ok, in his hotel room resting. It'll be interesting to see if he gets asked if he would do anything differently there. Scores the icing goal on his birthday to put his team up 1-0 in the series. Might go down as one of the best days of his life

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sounds like Evans is ok, in his hotel room resting. It'll be interesting to see if he gets asked if he would do anything differently there. Scores the icing goal on his birthday to put his team up 1-0 in the series. Might go down as one of the best days of his life

He has a concussion, but thankfully not in a hospital. Given his history with head issues, who knows if or when he’ll be back.

 

[tny760]

Where does the rule indicate a determination has to be made for a start point?

one would think that a definitive start and end point would be uhh.. mathematically necessary.. to make a statement about "distance travelled"

 

[BigKing]

42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates, jumps into or charges an opponent in any manner. Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A “charge” may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.

Nothing in the rulebook states if the charging player is gliding or skating, it's about distance traveled.

"Skates" is the key word here. Taken literally, you have to skate to play hockey so basically every hit involves someone "skating into" an opponent. This is where the coasting/gliding comes in to play as "skates" is meant as actually taking strides into the hit. The distance traveled thing is, again, silly because what is this distance, exactly? I've already mentioned that a forecheck hit on a dump-in involves a guy at least traveling from the blue line and there is a good chance the original distance could be even further. These result in "violent checks" as well but charging is still almost always called because a player jumps into a hit or actively strides into it.

Now, if we want to go exactly by the rule book then, sure, it is charging. They can also call cross checking, holding, slashing and roughing pretty much every 30 seconds if they want to.

We're penalizing the result but, you know, most people are going to be fine with that and I get it: nobody wants to see a kid get hurt badly. Unfortunately, there are those of us that don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and--much like Wilson's "horrifying act of violence"--this isn't the hill to die on. Those with an agenda to completely soften the sport use incidents like this (how can one argue "for" this hit when someone gets hurt like that?!?!) and Wilson's horrifying display (public enemy #1 gets no leash and if you argue that this wasn't even a big deal, you support Tom Wilson and his crusade to end careers) to get deafening support for their agenda, allowing them to continue to chip away at the sport that we love. One day, we'll be watching a game and realize that every game has the intensity and drama of a 2019-2021 Kings game but with more skill and think "maybe we went a little too far in trying to bubble wrap this game?"

That's not what I said, there was clear head contact which is why I thought it was too much. Compare that to Morrow's hit where there wasn't head contact, but it looked worse than it actually ended up being and Kopi didn't miss a shift. Evans was clearly knocked out and has a concussion. Clear distinction there for me.

There's clear everywhere contact. I think he hit his toes too. He did not target the head and head contact is allowed if it is a full body check which this absolutely was.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

one would think that a definitive start and end point would be uhh.. mathematically necessary.. to make a statement about "distance travelled"

And you can't figure that out from watching the distance Scheifele traveled to deliver that hit?

 

[Bandit]

Note to self : Don't skate back the length of the ice to prevent a goal, also do not hit anyone after coasting through the dots

In a sport where dozens of hits are thrown every game, and years go by without a hit like this, if that's what you take away from it well... ok.

Yes hockey has hitting, yes it can cause injury, but there is language in the rulebook specifically about "intent to injure", even in a sport that allows hitting. There is a line, and it can be (and was) crossed.

 

[tny760]

And you can't figure that out from watching the distance Scheifele traveled to deliver that hit?

i'd argue that i'm seeing him skate really hard to backcheck, holding his stick on the backhand to defend a slot pass from below the goal line, then him deciding to close the gap

if his SOLE intention was to blow up evans no matter what, why bother holding your stick on the backhand? he could've just blasted 4 more strides without his stick anywhere near the ice and delivered the hit with his left shoulder. he let up striding to make a defensive play and made a read that he could close the gap before the wrap. he was wrong, but it doesn't really matter.

 

[redcard]

where is the "start" point for distance travelled? the faceoff circle at the beginning of the shift? the bench? what if scheifele wasn't the first backchecker, evans continued around the boards and got laid out at the half boards by a late backchecker? probably travelled the same distance, just not by striding as hard as scheifele did. somehow that makes it different?

it's not as clear of a rule as you guys make it out to be, and there's a reason it's hardly ever called..

You're right to say the rule isn't clear, its ambiguous, and likely leads to calls being made based on injury or the optics of the hit which is less than ideal.

However, you can't travel much farther in a straight line than Scheifele did, and for much of it he was at full speed. So I have to think that this is what the specific language "as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner" is referring to.