Around the League '16-'17 Stanley Cup Final Edition

[kovacro]

Playoff numbers for Richards, Simmonds and Schenn since the trade took place...

Richards: 61 GP, 10 G, 37 PTS

Simmonds: 24 GP, 5 G, 13 PTS

Schenn: 24 GP, 3 G, 14 PTS

I'm sorry Johnny, I like you, but it's about time you shut the **** up about this trade and stopped whining about it.

You'd have to be really obtuse not to see how much the Kings benefited from having Richards.

Meanwhile, what have the Flyers accomplished since then? Absolutely nothing. Would you prefer that? It's time you stopped crying about it. Go watch some fight videos or something.

Spot on man.

 

[Martyros]

In this day and age, people care about the future instead of the present.I wish we had Simmonds now, but Richards was a big piece in that 3-year run.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Boston buys out the last piece of the Seguin deal. They now have nothing to show from that deal, kinda like the Kings have nothing to show from the Simmonds, Schenn, Richards deal.

I'm sorry, but this line of thinking, and the comparison, borders on special needs.

 

[johnjm22]

Playoff numbers for Richards, Simmonds and Schenn since the trade took place...

Richards: 61 GP, 10 G, 37 PTS

Simmonds: 24 GP, 5 G, 13 PTS

Schenn: 24 GP, 3 G, 14 PTS

I'm sorry Johnny, I like you, but it's about time you shut the **** up about this trade and stopped whining about it.

You'd have to be really obtuse not to see how much the Kings benefited from having Richards.

Meanwhile, what have the Flyers accomplished since then? Absolutely nothing. Would you prefer that? It's time you stopped crying about it. Go watch some fight videos or something.

Richards has 37 points in 73 playoff games since the trade. (.51 points per game)
Simmonds has 13 points in 24 playoff games since the trade. (.54 points per game)

Even by your own stats, which only includes Richard's playoff games as a King, the difference between him and Simmonds points-per-game-wise is pretty small (.54 verse .60). The problem is, either way you dice it, the stats lack context. Richards clearly benefited from playing on significantly better playoff teams than Simmonds.

If Richards would have stayed on the Flyers do you think the Flyers would have won anything? Probably not.

 

[kingsholygrail]

???

Excelsior!

 

[Martyros]

Boston buys out the last piece of the Seguin deal. They now have nothing to show from that deal, kinda like the Kings have nothing to show from the Simmonds, Schenn, Richards deal.

I don't even know what to reply against that line of thinking. That's like saying Chicago has nothing to show for signing Hossa back in 2009 just because he's got a skin disorder/allergies and looks to be on the shelf for all eternity.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Richards has 37 points in 73 playoff games since the trade. (.51 points per game)
Simmonds has 13 points in 24 playoff games since the trade. (.54 points per game)

Even by your own stats, which only includes Richard's playoff games as a King, the difference between him and Simmonds points-per-game-wise is pretty small (.54 verse .60). The problem is, either way you dice it, the stats lack context. Richards clearly benefited from playing on significantly better playoff teams than Simmonds.

If Richards would have stayed on the Flyers do you think the Flyers would have won anything? Probably not.

I seem to recall the Flyers being a playoff team with Richards leading the way. What suddenly changed?

 

[Martyros]

Richards has 37 points in 73 playoff games since the trade. (.51 points per game)
Simmonds has 13 points in 24 playoff games since the trade. (.54 points per game)

Even by your own stats, which only includes Richard's playoff games as a King, the difference between him and Simmonds points-per-game-wise is pretty small (.54 verse .60). The problem is, either way you dice it, the stats lack context. Richards clearly benefited from playing on significantly better playoff teams than Simmonds.

If Richards would have stayed on the Flyers do you think the Flyers would have won anything? Probably not.

Were part of those points not during the series where the average score was 7-6 between the flyers and Pens? I could be wrong though.

Richards was the 2nd line center that we needed; it's more to do with what WE needed rather than how he would've done in Philadelphia had the trade not occurred. While we should never say never, I highly doubt we would have won the cup with Simmonds and Schenn and no Richards.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

was part of those points not during the series where the average score was 7-6 between the flyers and Pens? I could be wrong though.

Richards was 2nd line center that we needed, it's more to do with what WE needed rather than how he would've done in Philadelphia had the trade not occured. While we can never say never, I highly doubt we would have won the cup with Simmonds and Schenn and no Richards.

I guess they are convinced that the Kings would still win Cups with Stoll as the #2 center.

 

[go4hockey]

Boston buys out the last piece of the Seguin deal. They now have nothing to show from that deal, kinda like the Kings have nothing to show from the Simmonds, Schenn, Richards deal.

Well there is those two silver trophies we won that most of us never thought we would see. But that's reall small and easy to forget The toughest thing is having to watch all the success that Simmons and Schenn have had in Philadelphia.

 

[johnjm22]

I seem to recall the Flyers being a playoff team with Richards leading the way. What suddenly changed?

I guess guys like Carter and Pronger had nothing to to with it.

Are you implying that if Richards was on the current Flyers roster that they would have won the SC by now? I highly doubt that. The team just isn't good enough. The Flyers team that went to the finals had the good versions of Briere/Timonen/Hartnell/Gagne as well as an emerging JVR/Giroux in addition to Carter and Pronger. That's a lot of talent.

Remember the Kings were actually worse off after the Simmonds/Richards trade. It wasn't until Carter got here that it turned around.

 

[Reclamation Project]

If the Kings don't acquire Mike Richards Dean Lombardi loses his job and we never have Carter.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I guess guys like Carter and Pronger had nothing to to with it.

Are you implying that if Richards was on the current Flyers roster that they would have won the SC by now? I highly doubt that. The team just isn't good enough. The Flyers team that went to the finals had the good versions of Briere/Timonen/Hartnell/Gagne as well as an emerging JVR/Giroux in addition to Carter and Pronger. That's a lot of talent.

Remember the Kings were actually worse off after the Simmonds/Richards trade. It wasn't until Carter got here that it turned around.

Pronger barely played in Richards' last season in Philly as well. His career was already nearing its end and he barely snuck in some playoff games in '11.

Do you look back at the Cup runs and honestly think the Kings would've been better off with Simmonds and Schenn? You and Johnny Utah can't seem to let things go. It's getting rather pathetic hearing you guys whine about a player who served an essential purpose.

Yet Schenn and Simmonds haven't outperformed a beaten up and now retired Richards in post season play. It almost sounds like you guys would rather have those two guys back over those Cup banners.

 

[Master Yoda]

I guess guys like Carter and Pronger had nothing to to with it.

Are you implying that if Richards was on the current Flyers roster that they would have won the SC by now? I highly doubt that. The team just isn't good enough. The Flyers team that went to the finals had the good versions of Briere/Timonen/Hartnell/Gagne as well as an emerging JVR/Giroux in addition to Carter and Pronger. That's a lot of talent.

Remember the Kings were actually worse off after the Simmonds/Richards trade. It wasn't until Carter got here that it turned around.

You also have to remember that with Richards, the Kings were seen as cup contenders. Or more importantly, Dean saw the team as a contender. If the Kings don't have Richards, they are probably not getting Carter either.

 

[Winger23]

Why does this trade keep being brought back to life? Cup means 100 times more to me than debating who won the trade.

I don't care if Philly were to win a cup, the kings already did and that's worth more than keeping a player.

If you gave me a choice of keeping Carter on the team for 5 more years or winning a cup but lose Carter the following year I take the cup every time. I don't think some realize just how damn good that 3 year run was...

 

[BigKing]

It's just so silly. No way to know what would of happened if he kept Simmonds/Schenn but we do know what actually happened and are reminded every time we look up at the rafters in Staples.

 

[Stimpythecat]

Cups.

If at the time of the trade we could be guarranteed 2 cups but only if we added, then I'd add. No hesitation. It's all about the cups.

 

[LaFan1967]

I always take the bird in the hand instead of the two in the bush

the bird being 2 cups

 

[johnjm22]

Pronger barely played in Richards' last season in Philly as well. His career was already nearing its end and he barely snuck in some playoff games in '11.

Yes, and the Flyers didn't go anywhere probably in part because of it. They eeked into the second round then got swept. I mean they had Richards still, why didn't he lead them to the cup?

The idea that the Flyers haven't won anything because they traded Richards is silly and you know it.

Do you look back at the Cup runs and honestly think the Kings would've been better off with Simmonds and Schenn? You and Johnny Utah can't seem to let things go. It's getting rather pathetic hearing you guys whine about a player who served an essential purpose.

Yet Schenn and Simmonds haven't outperformed a beaten up and now retired Richards in post season play. It almost sounds like you guys would rather have those two guys back over those Cup banners.

Did I say the Kings would have won the cup without the trade? I've said multiple times I wouldn't take the trade back. What I have said is that it's possible. I've also said that Richards is overrated, and the trade was a bad one in terms of asset value.

The irony is, that because the Richards trade failed to improve the team, it sent in motion a chain of events that were necessary to turn the team around. That's why I wouldn't undo the past.

You just can't seem to be objective when it comes to this.

Richards clearly has played on much better playoff teams than Simmonds. Despite that, Simmonds produced goals at a better pace, and produced overall points at nearly the same pace in the playoffs.

 

[damacles1156]

Jesus you guys still arguing about the ridiculous Philly trade ?

Wow.

 

[KingsCourt]

Jesus you guys still arguing about the ridiculous Philly trade ?

Wow.

Ya exactly

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Mike Richards almost put up more points in the 2012 playoffs than Schenn did in the entire 2012 regular season, and god bless simmer but he's not a center.

We aren't winning that first cup without Richards, nothing else matters. But go ahead and hold your breath if it makes you feel better.

"failed to improve the team" is absolutely ridiculous by any metric.

 

[kilowatt]

Richards was the best player on the team period before his concussion. The Kings were a completely different team after trading for Richards. They felt like contenders for the first time...ever. Then, once they got Carter, it felt like they were actually going to win.

 

[deeshamrock]

I seem to recall the Flyers being a playoff team with Richards leading the way. What suddenly changed?

Leadership. With Richie, they went to the Conf Finals twice (2008, 2010) and SCF once (2010) and he was barely 25 , if he didn't blow out both shoulders in 2009, they'd have gone deep that year. Since he's left, 6 yrs of playing golf. He comes to a Kings team that hadn't gone deep and they g ot 3 trips to the conf finals. That's not a coincidence. Bob McKenzie said (the day of the trade) he was the missing piece for the kings to get that Cup, that he's a proven winner and pure champion, he simply' knows how to win' and his teammates willingly follow.

I've suffered thru every Flyers game since then and as has been pointed out by Danny Briere , they never replaced the leadership they lost, said that in 2011 and 2012. And said it again about a year ago. That nobody sacrificed himself more to win than Richie. Said what he had, you can't teach and it was why he wins at every level.

Six years of playing golf in April because Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds and Schenn are a weak leadership group. Schenn being moved is the first step, and with Nolan Patrick's potential next contract, as well as Provorov, the others will be dealt between now and July 2019.
Also heard Justin Williams say the Kings 'room' was never the same w/o Richards

Playoffs are a different animal, pressure, etc. And Simmonds hasn't stood out.
Hexy is going to move that old stale core out and put 'his' team in place over the next two years.

 

[deeshamrock]

Yes, and the Flyers didn't go anywhere probably in part because of it. They eeked into the second round then got swept. I mean they had Richards still, why didn't he lead them to the cup?

The idea that the Flyers haven't won anything because they traded Richards is silly and you know it.



Did I say the Kings would have won the cup without the trade? I've said multiple times I wouldn't take the trade back. What I have said is that it's possible. I've also said that Richards is overrated, and the trade was a bad one in terms of asset value.

The irony is, that because the Richards trade failed to improve the team, it sent in motion a chain of events that were necessary to turn the team around. That's why I wouldn't undo the past.

You just can't seem to be objective when it comes to this.

Richards clearly has played on much better playoff teams than Simmonds. Despite that, Simmonds produced goals at a better pace, and produced overall points at nearly the same pace in the playoffs.

Neither can you And winning is a lot more than points/pace in the playoffs. Simmonds has not stood out or been that difference maker, that got them the W. You take those paper props, the 'ppg's and I'll take the fact Richards has helped teams get to 5 Con Finals and 3 Cup finals.
Simmonds? Playing golf...