Around the League '16-'17 Road Trip Blues Edition

[kingsboy11]

Loved Simmer when he was here. Love him now. Would love to have him back here. That being said I make that trade everyday of the week. And there's no way that he would be the player he is today if he stayed here in LA. Probably the same could be said about Schenn. Wish Richards could've panned out past 3 years, but those 2 cups were worth it.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

That Simmonds deal was terrible. Kings could have still won those cups without Richards', especially that second one. Brayden Schenn is as good as MR and could have filled that center slot.

People will argue MR was key to the first cup because he filled the second line center role but I would still argue with the coaching change, calling up King/Nolan and the Carter trade the Kings would have been right there.

Kings haven't developed a center as good as Schenn since Kopitar and Andreoff, Clifford, or Nolan will never be Simmonds.

Uh oh, Johnny's lost his marbles.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I still believe Carter wouldn't have been traded to LA had Richards not been there. Also, pretty sure Philly wanted Voynov instead of Simmonds...

 

[KingsFan7824]

Richards' **** You attitude was one of the major reasons this team won a cup. That attitude has not been replace at this point. Want to know how the Kings got under other teams skin so much and got them off their games? Yeah, players like Richards.

That deal happened because of the same reason Richards wasn't bought out for free; he was everything Lombardi wants in a hockey player. There was that intangible quality.

It's funny how things end up playing out. Had Gagne not gotten hurt, and Penner not been ineffective, does Lombardi trade for Carter? In 2014, had Brown not fallen off the cliff, does Lombardi get Gaborik? If Voynov doesn't get suspended, there's less pressure to get Sekera.

Anyway, Richards in Game 1 against Vancouver. That's why Lombardi traded for him.

Playoffs:
Schenn, 24GP, 14pts, .583ppg
Simmonds, 36GP, 19pts, .528ppg

Richards:
136GP, 87pts, .640ppg

Richards in 2012 and 2013:
35GP, 27pts, .771ppg

Richards in 12/13/14:
61GP, 37pts, .607ppg

 

[johnjm22]

When people are defending Richards, they use terms like "leadership," "intangibles," "attitude." It's like debating someone who's using religion to back up their arguments.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

When people are defending Richards, they use terms like "leadership," "intangibles," "attitude." It's like debating someone who's using religion to back up their arguments.

There's also measurable stats that showed how effective he was when he scored 15 points in 20 games while averaging close to 20 minutes a game during the first Cup run.

Then the following season he had 12 points in 15 games as the team reached the Conference Finals. Richards was pretty productive in the post season up until 2014, where he was still able to tack on points as a fourth line center who averaged 15 minutes. Let's not forget that he setup the game winner in Game 1 in OT against the Rangers in the Cup Final and also scored a big goal in Game 3.

The signs were there though that his body would no longer be able to hold up the type of game he was used to playing by 2014, so it's on Lombardi for hanging on to Richards past his expiration date. But to deny his contributions is simply foolish, short sighted, and completely ignorant.

 

[KingsFan7824]

When people are defending Richards, they use terms like "leadership," "intangibles," "attitude." It's like debating someone who's using religion to back up their arguments.

Playoff stats:

Richards
136GP, 87pts, .640ppg

Richards in 2012 and 2013
35GP, 27pts, .771ppg

Richards in 12/13/14
61GP, 37pts, .607ppg

Those are numbers. Facts. You can look up some youtube clips of other tangible things he did if you forget. But yeah, whatever "it" is in sports, Richards had it. Lombardi still believed in the myth of Mike Richards in late June of 2014 though, which was the wrong move.

Go back and see Richards in Game 1 against Vancouver. A goal, an assist, and the hit at the end on Burrows. Going up against Kesler. That's why they got him.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

When people are defending Richards, they use terms like "leadership," "intangibles," "attitude." It's like debating someone who's using religion to back up their arguments.

Really? I can provide you YouTube links to show examples of what Richards brought to the table...you got any clips of Jesus?

 

[KingsCourt]

old arguement...do the kings win two cups without richards and with schenn/simmer? no one can say definitely 'yes' or 'no'...ya sucked to trade simmer, but the two cups did not suck...the team won, and that's all that matters...ya could look back and say 'what if' ...but all i know i see my two replica cups on my desk everyday, and makes me smile.

different question...if you were told we trade "insert player name" and we win another two cups ...have at it...trade away, don't care who it is drew, kopi, quick, Top Titty, Muzz, brown(we can only hope).

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

That deal happened because of the same reason Richards wasn't bought out for free; he was everything Lombardi wants in a hockey player. There was that intangible quality.

It's funny how things end up playing out. Had Gagne not gotten hurt, and Penner not been ineffective, does Lombardi trade for Carter? In 2014, had Brown not fallen off the cliff, does Lombardi get Gaborik? If Voynov doesn't get suspended, there's less pressure to get Sekera.

Add on if Smyth wasn't terrified of the dangers of Hermosa Beach and isn't traded, the Kings wouldn't have had the cap space for Carter.

 

[Johnny Utah]

MR had all the leadership qualities? They say he is shy in the room and didn't get along with Pronger in Philly and he was busted at the border with drugs. Is this good character?

Also, the dude has never been in shape and there are stories all over this board of locals saying every summer he parties hard and just rides his boat. Where is the commitment to off season training?

This is what DL valued so much? I'm lost.

How hard is it to hire a trainer when you are making millions of dollars over a decade.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Also, note that Lombardi missed Simmonds so much he gave up the farm to rent Lucic for a year to try and replace that type of player.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I can't believe that there is actually a debate about whether we should have traded for Richards. We won our first cup thanks in part to him. I would make that draft all day everyday.

 

[KingsKnight]

People think you can just slot in one player for another and get the same result. That's not how Cups happen.

 

[Bandit]

Really? I can provide you YouTube links to show examples of what Richards brought to the table...you got any clips of Jesus?

Hahahaha. This answer is perfect.

 

[Winger23]

When people are defending Richards, they use terms like "leadership," "intangibles," "attitude." It's like debating someone who's using religion to back up their arguments.

And people against Richards use things that happened before he got to the kings as ammo saying he's shy in the locker room with nothing to back it up. I've seen nothing to show he was shy in the kings locker room. I do remember his play in the playoffs which to this day is still more that either Simmons or schenn have done....

 

[Winger23]

Also, note that Lombardi missed Simmonds so much he gave up the farm to rent Lucic for a year to try and replace that type of player.

You really think he waited 3 years and 2 cups later to replace Simmons? Roflmao.

 

[KingsFan7824]

MR had all the leadership qualities? They say he is shy in the room and didn't get along with Pronger in Philly and he was busted at the border with drugs. Is this good character?

Also, the dude has never been in shape and there are stories all over this board of locals saying every summer he parties hard and just rides his boat. Where is the commitment to off season training?

This is what DL valued so much? I'm lost.

How hard is it to hire a trainer when you are making millions of dollars over a decade.

Regular season:
487pts in 749GP, .650ppg

Playoffs:
87pts in 136GP, .640ppg

That's what Lombardi valued. The way it all ended and the lead up to it, it sucked. How hard is it to see what Richards brought to the team though? At least from a fans perspective. We can't know what exactly goes on with the guys on the team.

Also, note that Lombardi missed Simmonds so much he gave up the farm to rent Lucic for a year to try and replace that type of player.

I'd say that was more because Brown wasn't the player he once was. But he also couldn't let Richards go so much, he didn't buy out a 4th line player making $5m a year. I'm going to guess the only guy in the league that Lombardi would've traded Simmonds for would've been Richards. Or Toews. Someone like that.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Really? I can provide you YouTube links to show examples of what Richards brought to the table...you got any clips of Jesus?

Well played, good sir.

 

[BigKing]

The mistake isn't the Richards trade but rather not buying him out when the chance was there. He was great in 2012 and was the team's leading scorer in 2013 (playoffs). Bolland's BS head shot on him really torpedoed the Kings chances in that series and, in retrospect, looks like a career killer as well. With that being said, he made the fortunate play that led to Gaborik's tying goal in Game 1 against Anaheim in 2014 so he still contributed in that playoff run as well. Let Couture break his hand on his face in Game 6 of the first round too.

They won two titles. I don't need to question any of the moves that built the 2012-14 teams because the proof is in the pudding. Nearly every move since then--starting with keeping Richards--deserves scrutiny.

 

[Winger23]

The mistake isn't the Richards trade but rather not buying him out when the chance was there. He was great in 2012 and was the team's leading scorer in 2013 (playoffs). Bolland's BS head shot on him really torpedoed the Kings chances in that series and, in retrospect, looks like a career killer as well. With that being said, he made the fortunate play that led to Gaborik's tying goal in Game 1 against Anaheim in 2014 so he still contributed in that playoff run as well. Let Couture break his hand on his face in Game 6 of the first round too.

They won two titles. I don't need to question any of the moves that built the 2012-14 teams because the proof is in the pudding. Nearly every move since then--starting with keeping Richards--deserves scrutiny.

This 100%.

 

[johnjm22]

There's also measurable stats that showed how effective he was when he scored 15 points in 20 games while averaging close to 20 minutes a game during the first Cup run.

Then the following season he had 12 points in 15 games as the team reached the Conference Finals. Richards was pretty productive in the post season up until 2014

Playoff stats:
Richards in 2012 and 2013
35GP, 27pts, .771ppg

Richards in 12/13/14
61GP, 37pts, .607ppg

Those are numbers. Facts.

Here's some facts, and measurable numbers:
In the 09/10 and 10/11 seasons combined, it took Mike Richards on average 30:52 minutes of even strength ice time to produce one point. Over the same period it took Simmonds 29:59.

This is despite the fact that Richards was still getting played on the top lines in 09/10, and despite the fact that Simmonds played on a more defensive oriented team, in a more defensive oriented conference almost exclusively in the bottom six.

See, the biggest problem for the Kings prior to the trade wasn't that they lacked a Mike Richards, it was that they needed a new coach. That's why even after Richards was acquired, the team didn't improve. (Also, the Kings biggest need was offense, and swapping Simmonds for Richards was essentially a lateral move or arguably a downgrade in this area.)

I have nothing against Richards. He did contribute to the Kings. I was one of the people that supported Dean not buying him out.

That said, I don't think he was the catalyst that turned around the Kings. I think he gets too much credit, and I think Dean could have acquired a better player than Richards. People forget that Schenn was the top ranked prospect in the world by most people at the time of the trade. His asset value was extremely high. Trading Schenn was absolutely the right move, it just shouldn't have been for Richards.

The irony of this, is the failure of the Richards trade to improve the team, is probably key to getting Terry fired, which is exactly what the Kings needed.

 

[johnjm22]

Really? I can provide you YouTube links to show examples of what Richards brought to the table...you got any clips of Jesus?

I'm sure you can provide lots of clips of Richards doing good things on the ice. Not sure what your point is. Never said he wasn't a good player at one point.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I'm sure you can provide lots of clips of Richards doing good things on the ice. Not sure what your point is. Never said he wasn't a good player at one point.

My point was I can provide you video evidence to back up words like 'leadership' and 'intangibles'...not sure what your point was. Maybe you should try again.

 

[KingsFan7824]

See, the biggest problem for the Kings prior to the trade wasn't that they lacked a Mike Richards, it was that they needed a new coach. That's why even after Richards was acquired, the team didn't improve. (Also, the Kings biggest need was offense, and swapping Simmonds for Richards was essentially a lateral move or arguably a downgrade in this area.)

The Kings lacked a 2nd center, and that was going to be Schenn, but Richards was like Ricci for Lombardi, the epitome of a hockey player. Lombardi basically bet his job on it. It didn't help that Penner wasn't effective that year until the playoffs, or that Gagne got hurt. The Kings were left with 4 forwards until Lombardi took what may have been his last chance to get Carter. King also came in and I'm guessing surprised all of us here.

That said, I don't think he was the catalyst that turned around the Kings. I think he gets too much credit, and I think Dean could have acquired a better player than Richards. People forget that Schenn was the top ranked prospect in the world by most people at the time of the trade. His asset value was extremely high. Trading Schenn was absolutely the right move, it just shouldn't have been for Richards.

I don't think anyone doesn't remember he was the highest ranked prospect in the world at the time. I think that's part of the reason that most of us, and certainly myself, was surprised that Lombardi actually made the deal. I never thought he'd be willing to trade Simmonds and/or Schenn. I figured they were set in stone, because Simmonds was solid at a young age, and of where Schenn was ranked.

The irony of this, is the failure of the Richards trade to improve the team, is probably key to getting Terry fired, which is exactly what the Kings needed.

Again, I think we can thank Gagne's injury and Penner not scoring for that more than the failure of the Richards trade. The improvement of Voynov, which allowed Johnson to be dealt. King and Nolan becoming players. It certainly wasn't any one thing that year. It was the exact combination of everything that took place. It was a career year from Quick. It was the perfect combo's on defense. On top of that, the 8th seed started every series 3-0, and that sort of thing just doesn't happen. Even the top teams don't go 3-0 in every series.