Around the League '16-'17 Road Trip Blues Edition

[Ollie Weeks]

I uni-****ing-laterally reject that tired and dated premise.

As limited as Richard's role was in the 2nd cup win, that 2nd cup doesn't happen unless that 1st cup exists.

Why did the 1st cup win happen? Because of all the things you listed, including Richards. Remove any of those things and its likely over. Which includes our most effective forward from the 1st half of the season. Visually and statistically led the team through the first quarter before getting his bell rung. Imagine if he wasn't there. With how bad things got around Christmas before Sutter took over we may not have even been in the playoff race by the deadline to allow DL to go out and bring in Carter (who I believe was on speaing terms with Richards in some capacity). Carter was being deployed as a winger at the time. Meaning we still would have had a gaping hole to fill up front in 2012. You can't just ignore the mess of the first half, remove a top 6 forward and go "LOL everything was fine in April."

Simmonds stung, but thats the price you pay for immediate success. Congratulations on noticing that Schenn turned into an ok player years after he was traded. If only we could take those players in their current form and put them on a team from 5 years ago.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

an 18 point (11th in forward scoring on his team, that was a Top-3 offense), -7 (2nd last, even with fewer games) on a team with guys who were +18, rookie Brayden Schenn was not going to do **** for our success in 2012 and frankly that's a laughable suggestion.

It took Mike Richards the first 21 games to hit 18 points in 2012. And that's ignoring any intangibles he brought to the table.

 

[deeshamrock]

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie · 6h6 hours ago

USA is without Matthews, Tkachuk, Werenski, Hanifin and Fischer. CAN: McDavid, Marner, Konecny, Crouse, Beauvillier and Chychrun.


That's a lot of young talent. I've been watching the WJC for a lot of years and the players in the NHL used to be the exception. Times they are a changin'...

 

[USE Fi]

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie · 6h6 hours ago

USA is without Matthews, Tkachuk, Werenski, Hanifin and Fischer. CAN: McDavid, Marner, Konecny, Crouse, Beauvillier and Chychrun.


That's a lot of young talent. I've been watching the WJC for a lot of years and the players in the NHL used to be the exception. Times they are a changin'...

Look what happened to Finland without Laine, Puljujärvi and Aho.

 

[Clare2904]

What the F? So much for the tie down jersey, pads, and shirt rules. Even Perry's like , "Dude"

Personally I prefer this look

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie · 6h6 hours ago

USA is without Matthews, Tkachuk, Werenski, Hanifin and Fischer. CAN: McDavid, Marner, Konecny, Crouse, Beauvillier and Chychrun.


That's a lot of young talent. I've been watching the WJC for a lot of years and the players in the NHL used to be the exception. Times they are a changin'...

Yep. It used to mostly just be Canada too. "Great problem" to have when so much elite talent around the world has already made the show.

 

[KingsFan7824]

That Simmonds deal was terrible. Kings could have still won those cups without Richards', especially that second one. Brayden Schenn is as good as MR and could have filled that center slot.

Terrible is a subjective word, and could have is a meaningless phrase. There's no way to prove could have wrong, or even right. And the only way to judge the deal is what anyone thought of it at the time, because hindsight, either way, is unfair. They won, so it was great. That's unfair. They didn't win, so it's the worst trade ever. Also unfair.

People will argue MR was key to the first cup because he filled the second line center role but I would still argue with the coaching change, calling up King/Nolan and the Carter trade the Kings would have been right there.

Again, is that really fair? Take out the one trade, but everything else goes the same way? There's no way Lombardi traded for Richards figuring he'd fire Murray a few months later, have King and Nolan come in from basically nowhere(and then have King have the series of a lifetime against the Coyotes), and also knowing he'd get Carter.

The way to look at the Richards deal is what and where the Kings were at the time of the Richards trade. If you disagree with the deal on principle at the time, that's fair. If Richards didn't completely break down only 2.5 years after the trade, maybe he's still a decent 2nd line center, and the Kings are that much better today.

Kings haven't developed a center as good as Schenn since Kopitar and Andreoff, Clifford, or Nolan will never be Simmonds.

The Kings also haven't had the 5th overall pick since Schenn. Also haven't lucked out in having a player like Kopitar fall as far as he did in his draft. And why are you comparing Andreoff, Clifford, and Nolan to Simmonds? Has anyone said those guys were supposed to be Simmonds? Was Simmonds even supposed to be Simmonds? He shocked everyone making the team as early as he did. Just like Benn from the same draft year, if people knew he was going to be as good as he's been, he gets taken much earlier in the draft.

 

[Bandit]

I uni-****ing-laterally reject that tired and dated premise.

As limited as Richard's role was in the 2nd cup win, that 2nd cup doesn't happen unless that 1st cup exists.

Why did the 1st cup win happen? Because of all the things you listed, including Richards. Remove any of those things and its likely over. Which includes our most effective forward from the 1st half of the season. Visually and statistically led the team through the first quarter before getting his bell rung. Imagine if he wasn't there. With how bad things got around Christmas before Sutter took over we may not have even been in the playoff race by the deadline to allow DL to go out and bring in Carter (who I believe was on speaing terms with Richards in some capacity). Carter was being deployed as a winger at the time. Meaning we still would have had a gaping hole to fill up front in 2012. You can't just ignore the mess of the first half, remove a top 6 forward and go "LOL everything was fine in April."

Simmonds stung, but thats the price you pay for immediate success. Congratulations on noticing that Schenn turned into an ok player years after he was traded. If only we could take those players in their current form and put them on a team from 5 years ago.

This.

an 18 point (11th in forward scoring on his team, that was a Top-3 offense), -7 (2nd last, even with fewer games) on a team with guys who were +18, rookie Brayden Schenn was not going to do **** for our success in 2012 and frankly that's a laughable suggestion.

It took Mike Richards the first 21 games to hit 18 points in 2012. And that's ignoring any intangibles he brought to the table.

And this.

Sure I'd like to have Schenn and Simmonds right now, but we wouldn't have won dick with them in 2012 or 2014, kinda like how the Flyers are never going to win dick with them period.

 

[deeshamrock]

Simmonds has to be one of the top 3 power forwards in the NHL right now. Only other guy I can think of is Benn.

Nothing not to love about his game and he's become a leader and loved and adored by the fanbase.
The only downside is his age and contract. He'll be 31 when his contract runs out in 2019 and he'll want to cash in, getting fair market value for a winger of his talent and production.
I can't see Hexy shelling out 8M or more x 8 years. So I am curious to see if he is a good businessman who recognizes that hockey is a business, players are commodities and you sell high.

Possibly trade him at age 30, prior to last year on his deal and get a younger version back and a top draft pick. How long a contract to give a 31 year old top winger? Three years? Four? I don't think Simmonds will do that. LIke any player, he'll go where the money is and some team will give him what he wants. When the CAP boxes you in? That same year, both Provorov and Konecky will need new deals as well.


Never an easy choice...but the Flyers have 12 expiring contracts this summer including Ghost and all 3 goalies. I'm pretty sure Del Zotto won't be resigned, along with Streit and Schultz. So they will need to get a younger veteran D back there and possibly some forwards.

 

[deeshamrock]

AZ picks up Burmistrov off waivers. No risk on them, last yr on 1.5M and I wonder if that means they are thinking of moving Hanzel . They know they are not a contender and years away from that and Hanzel is almost 30. If you can sell Hanzel (tough top line center ) to a possible contender why not. Habs should call, they don't have a center, let alone a tough one. He'd fit into their 2 year window. Wasn't Burmistrov a top 10 pick? He's only 25, I guess maybe in new town, new life.
Maurice said that the role Burmistrov was looking for (in discussions with him) wasn't in Winnipeg, that they had too many forwards. He wanted top 6 minutes and some PP time, and it could be the Yotes have a diamond in the rough.


WJC
Team USA survives 3-2 0ver the Swiss and were lucky, it wasn't their best effort. (side note- there is a kid Jonas Siegenthaler a D for the Swiss that was excellent thruout the tourney. Good pick by the Caps, who need a top d in their farm system) They'll have to play a lot better on Wens vs Russia.

Canada and Czech's on next.

 

[onlyalad]

Still by far one of my favorite players in the league with such a cool backstory and I'm so happy he fully developed into what everyone knew he COULD be. Old time hockey player for sure. Glad he's at least in Philly where that is appreciated too.

In January 09 I was watching practice. I person who works for the Kings( name left out on purpose here) was sitting behind me asked me, " other than Doughty which rookie do you like best?" I picked Simmonds. He picked Teddy Purcell. On the Kings cruise that summer, both were on the cruise, I told both players about the conversation. Teddy laughed it off. Wayne got a little mad( not at me)
I so want to remind the Kings person about that day. Odds are he has forgotten about it.

 

[johnjm22]

That Simmonds deal was terrible. Kings could have still won those cups without Richards', especially that second one. Brayden Schenn is as good as MR and could have filled that center slot.

People will argue MR was key to the first cup because he filled the second line center role but I would still argue with the coaching change, calling up King/Nolan and the Carter trade the Kings would have been right there.

It was a bad trade in terms of asset management.

There's a possibility you're right about the cups, but we'll never know. IMO Simmonds was already a better offensive player than Richards before the trade even happened.

Richards is one the most overrated hockey players of his generation. Dean should have been able to acquire a better player for the assets that he gave up.

 

[Trolfoli]

It was a bad trade in terms of asset management.

There's a possibility you're right about the cups, but we'll never know. IMO Simmonds was already a better offensive player than Richards before the trade even happened.

Richards is one the most overrated hockey players of his generation. Dean should have been able to acquire a better player for the assets that he gave up.

Thanks. Needed that.

Richards' **** You attitude was one of the major reasons this team won a cup. That attitude has not been replace at this point. Want to know how the Kings got under other teams skin so much and got them off their games? Yeah, players like Richards.

"Bad Asset Management"

CupS Bro.


Edit: That trade was a disaster... if it weren't for the 2 cups.

 

[theMajor]

Richards is one the most overrated hockey players of his generation. Dean should have been able to acquire a better player for the assets that he gave up.

apparently we have some hidden gem GMs up in this forum. Richards won at literally every level of hockey he played at and was a big part of the Kings success. I dont think anyone could have guessed or predicted that the end of his career would have played out like it did. the only thing people have a right to be mad at is the fact Lombardi failed to use his compliance buyout on him

 

[kingsfan28]

I laugh my ass off every time someone bring up the "bad asset management" debate when it comes to Schenn and Simmonds. Everyone loves Simmonds right now, yet the people who don't like the trade forget that he was not used in the same way as he is in Philly. He was a 3rd line grinder in LA and could score a few goals. He was never on the top lines or used on the pp the way he is now, and probably never would've been. Philly made him the player he is today, LA would not have.

We do not win our cups without this trade, aside from the stats, Richard brought a winning attitude to the team and it carried all through the room.

 

[Johnny Utah]

This deal was never meant to be good for more than 2-3 seasons which is the sad part.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Richards' never scored more than 44 points as a King. He waived in his fourth season here.

We all love these cups but DL knew he was trading for a 26 year old who was already on his downside, had a huge contract, had a history of concussions, is small, not the best skater, and is not in the best shape. Eventually, it turns out all the above are true including a drug habit. Looking back now, I just don't see how Lombardi looked at Simmonds and Schenn and thought to himself that MR was worth all that. Or even that he would be worth all that in 2-3 years. I think Lombardi put his MR love ahead of his brain.

It's one thing when you trade for Jeff Carter and his long term deal. He is in great shape, he's over 6', he's a great skater.

 

[Butch 19]

I laugh my ass off every time someone bring up the "bad asset management" debate when it comes to Schenn and Simmonds. Everyone loves Simmonds right now, yet the people who don't like the trade forget that he was not used in the same way as he is in Philly. He was a 3rd line grinder in LA and could score a few goals. He was never on the top lines or used on the pp the way he is now, and probably never would've been. Philly made him the player he is today, LA would not have.

We do not win our cups without this trade, aside from the stats, Richard brought a winning attitude to the team and it carried all through the room.

We used to joke: "Simmonds - where offense goes to die." He had plenty of speed here, just no finish or touch.

Sure, I 'd love to have his current scoring touch from in front of the net, but Philly also has used him much differently than the Kings did.

When I feel bad seeing how much Simmonds is scoring, I think of the 2 Cups that the Kings have, and realize that moving Simmonds was a HUGE piece of the puzzle. This team would not have won any Cups with Simmonds in the lineup.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Richards' never scored more than 44 points as a King. He waived in his fourth season here.

We all love these cups but DL knew he was trading for a 26 year old who was already on his downside, had a huge contract, had a history of concussions, is small, not the best skater, and is not in the best shape. Eventually, it turns out all the above are true including a drug habit. Looking back now, I just don't see how Lombardi looked at Simmonds and Schenn and thought to himself that MR was worth all that. Or even that he would be worth all that in 2-3 years. I think Lombardi put his MR love ahead of his brain.

It's one thing when you trade for Jeff Carter and his long term deal. He is in great shape, he's over 6', he's a great skater.

Since you ignored my post, I'm gonna repost it.

an 18 point (11th in forward scoring on his team, that was a Top-3 offense), -7 (2nd last, even with fewer games) on a team with guys who were +18, rookie Brayden Schenn was not going to do **** for our success in 2012 and frankly that's a laughable suggestion.

It took Mike Richards the first 21 games to hit 18 points in 2012. And that's ignoring any intangibles he brought to the table.

I think it's incredibly easy to see why Mike Richards was a massive upgrade at 2C. Simmonds hurt even immediately, but that's the price of business.

And you don't really get to say "Yeah we love the cups, but..." what's the goal?

 

[Telos]

Richards' never scored more than 44 points as a King. He waived in his fourth season here.

We all love these cups but DL knew he was trading for a 26 year old who was already on his downside, had a huge contract, had a history of concussions, is small, not the best skater, and is not in the best shape. Eventually, it turns out all the above are true including a drug habit. Looking back now, I just don't see how Lombardi looked at Simmonds and Schenn and thought to himself that MR was worth all that. Or even that he would be worth all that in 2-3 years. I think Lombardi put his MR love ahead of his brain.

It's one thing when you trade for Jeff Carter and his long term deal. He is in great shape, he's over 6', he's a great skater.

He loved Richards, but he paid that because if we didn't then someone else would have and Lombardi knew that adding Richards to this core was a move that could very well bring a cup here on its own. Yeah, he knew that in the long term it wasn't going to be that pretty and was hoping for a lot more mileage out of the deal, but a lot of GM's in the league would have made that deal any day with that core.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I still can't believe we're debating trading for Richards.

 

[Steve Zissou]

That Simmonds deal was terrible. Kings could have still won those cups without Richards', especially that second one. Brayden Schenn is as good as MR and could have filled that center slot.

People will argue MR was key to the first cup because he filled the second line center role but I would still argue with the coaching change, calling up King/Nolan and the Carter trade the Kings would have been right there.

Kings haven't developed a center as good as Schenn since Kopitar and Andreoff, Clifford, or Nolan will never be Simmonds.

[Insert biggest ****ing eyeroll here.]

 

[Winger23]

I don't give a **** if people want to whine about it being a bad trade. We won the cup and it's something many of us have waited a long time for and thought it may not ever happen. I do the trade again and again and after that again...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Funny how one comment complimenting Simmonds derailed into this. I still make the trade knowing the results, I just wish they could've found a way to keep Simmonds because I was always on the Wayne Train and thought highly of him since he came up.

I don't know how true the rumors were but I thought I remember reading that the Kings preferred to keep Kyle Clifford over him. I hope to God that isn't true though.

Either way, this organization badly needs to find another gem like Simmonds in the 2nd or later rounds. He was an unranked prospect whom they had targeted. This team hasn't hit a home run like that in the draft since selecting Tyler Toffoli in the 2nd round of the 2010 draft.

 

[Omni Owl]

Look what a picture of a shirtless Simmonds does to you people.