Around the League '16-'17 Road Trip Blues Edition
- Thread starter Raccoon Jesus
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
Williams was only a good option if he was willing to take a pay cut and he wasn't going to take a pay cut after winning the Conn Smythe.
Williams signed with Washington for $3.5MM. Lucic's cap hit to the Kings was in the same vicinity.
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Option C would be no Williams or Lucic. I understand if someone--Trolfoli--prefers that.
If you'd rather give up the assets for Lucic, knowing how it all played out, over hypothetically keeping Williams at $3.5MM then I think that is ****ing insane. Of course, I think they are a playoff team without Lucic and with Williams last season regardless. So what's the worst that happens in my scenario...they get swept instead of winning one game?
Bummer.
If you'd rather give up the assets for Lucic, knowing how it all played out, over hypothetically keeping Williams at $3.5MM then I think that is ****ing insane. Of course, I think they are a playoff team without Lucic and with Williams last season regardless. So what's the worst that happens in my scenario...they get swept instead of winning one game?
Bummer.
This. Not sure why LA moved away on from Williams. He seemed to actually care that they missed the playoffs.
Maybe he moved on from LA. Still mad about Lucic when I see Konecny play. Lucic was perfect for a Kopi but we all knew it was a pipe dream that he would stick around.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Because people seem to forget.
"Williams fielded other offers Wednesday afternoon, including late pushes from Montreal and Los Angeles, but several factors steered him toward his Washington. His family lives in New Jersey during the offseason and his wife hails from Philadelphia. He could begin the upcoming season opposite Ovechkin, the reigning Hart Trophy runner-up who called Williams on Thursday morning to welcome him. According to Campbell, he even left a more lucrative offer on the table for “the best fit.” "
https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...23f5d3face1_story.html?utm_term=.1e4c0e45f20f
"Williams said he spoke with the Kings on Wednesday, but it was clear to him they couldn’t afford him and were heading in a different direction after missing the playoffs last season. He won Stanley Cups with the Kings twice in three seasons and was MVP of the playoffs in 2014."
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/201...t-for-former-la-kings-forward-justin-williams
And several times over, per LeBrun and Rosen, the Kings tried to work with Williams. He was gone, people.
http://lakingsinsider.com/2015/07/01/capitals-sign-williams-to-two-year-6-5m-contract/
http://lakingsinsider.com/2015/07/02/williams-theyve-got-this-thing-called-the-salary-cap/
People give DL a lot of crap around here for signing guys instead of letting them go a year too early...only to turn around and complain that we 'let Williams go' as well? Come on.
"Williams fielded other offers Wednesday afternoon, including late pushes from Montreal and Los Angeles, but several factors steered him toward his Washington. His family lives in New Jersey during the offseason and his wife hails from Philadelphia. He could begin the upcoming season opposite Ovechkin, the reigning Hart Trophy runner-up who called Williams on Thursday morning to welcome him. According to Campbell, he even left a more lucrative offer on the table for “the best fit.” "
https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...23f5d3face1_story.html?utm_term=.1e4c0e45f20f
"Williams said he spoke with the Kings on Wednesday, but it was clear to him they couldn’t afford him and were heading in a different direction after missing the playoffs last season. He won Stanley Cups with the Kings twice in three seasons and was MVP of the playoffs in 2014."
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/201...t-for-former-la-kings-forward-justin-williams
And several times over, per LeBrun and Rosen, the Kings tried to work with Williams. He was gone, people.
http://lakingsinsider.com/2015/07/01/capitals-sign-williams-to-two-year-6-5m-contract/
http://lakingsinsider.com/2015/07/02/williams-theyve-got-this-thing-called-the-salary-cap/
People give DL a lot of crap around here for signing guys instead of letting them go a year too early...only to turn around and complain that we 'let Williams go' as well? Come on.
The trade was to win a cup, which is a long shot. I'd rather have a GM that's willing to take that shot then not. If Voynov doesn't get deported and Martinez isn't injured last years team would have been nuts. It's still better to have a GM that's willing to take those shots.
Oh yeah... and one of the other costs was having to bridge Toffoli and not lock him up to a long term contract because they were banking on Voynov coming back. Now he'll need a bigger contract.
Williams signed in August or September, iirc. He wasn't asking for that to start. Not at all.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Totally understand. My point is that now that we've seen the results, the Lucic trade was a catastrophe.
As for the Kings not being able to afford Williams, I think it is more of not wanting to go to $3.5MM as opposed to not being able to do it. I highly doubt he moves to Washington if LA offers the same 2/$3.5MM.
But to reiterate, I'm not sad that Williams isn't here. I'm more unhappy over the fact that the Kings appear to have little top-end scoring talent in the pipeline and gave up 1st round picks two years in a row with nothing to show for it except one playoff game victory.
Spilled milk, I know.
What's catastrophic about it? Kings spent some assets to take a shot. Having good prospects in juniors doesn't help this team. Kings have a couple more seasons before the wheels fall off from guys getting older.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I don't really disagree with you. But I do appreciate having a GM that had the guts to continually swing for the fences at the appropriate time, and was able to get over the hump at least twice. He's made the biggest deadline deal several years running (until last year) with an insane success rate. Wasn't gonna happen forever, I guess.
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Loss of assets for no results?
The potential prospect helped the team almost as much as Lucic did seeing as they won one playoff game with him. They also blew the division.
This board was all about "the regular season doesn't matter and it is all about the playoffs" because the Kings turned it on in the post season. Now giving up prime assets to win one playoff game is cool because they got 102 inflated points?
It is catastrophic because it led to nothing and the prospect that wouldn't of helped last year will also not be helping this season, next or ever. I have no problem with being on board for going all-in but I'm going to call it like it is when it busts. I like having a GM that goes for it and you have to take the good with the bad; however, I'm not going to ignore that it was a bad move even if I appreciate the balls involved to do it.
Know what else doesn't help this team? Milan Lucic. Assets were spent for pretty much no return on investment. No guarantee the draft pick pans out but, if he would have, that would be a prime piece for this team to contend as the old guys continue to age since you'd have a good player on a cheap ELC.
Again though, it is spilled milk.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
Probably just seems that way since I doubt anyone wanted him to go. A guy like Williams doesn't stay on the market too long.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
Plus 14-15 was a long year. The Kings didn't play for 2 extra months not making the playoffs. That April/May/June could've felt like July and August after the 3 previous seasons.
Ok... it isn't a big deal because that young forward that's going to help just isn't. Kings have a limited amount of time to win it all and last year was probably the best opportunity to do that. Who really gives a **** that we missed out on a prospect that won't make a major impact until after Carter is done? When that happens this team has bigger issues.
The team right now needs/could use:
3C: Dowd is fine, but a vet shutdown guy would allow Kopitar to not always get the defensive matches. Also have Amadio coming. Other then that Lombardi was trying to move up for Zacha, but no one in front of the Devils was trading that pick, so the only center available really would have been Brazal... so Brazal vs Dowd vs Amadio? the latter 2 are probably better fits for the team.
Wing: Not really needed. Brown is playing well again, Setoguchi is doing decently. Kings have a bunch of defensively sound wings, so where would the Kyle Connor type wing actually break in? He, or any other wing, would have to hold his own defensively before Sutter would play him. Besides Kings have plenty of skill in the top 6 between Kopitar/Gaborik/Carter/Toffoli/Pearson. They even have a wild card in the minors with Kempe. Sutter isn't going to go all young/small so really I don't see where any of the prospects available with the draft picks taken would be getting ice time over what the Kings have.
D: Were there any RHD prospects available because that's about the only thing the Kings would need. Too many LHD as it is. I'm guessing if there was an awesome RHD that was ready to play Lombardi would have been all over it.
So really I don't see how a prospect right now would help? As the Kings likely only have a handful of years to chase to chase the cup, who cares if a prospect wasn't drafted that won't make a major impact on the roster before the window is shut. Don't confuse young guys getting shots on teams that aren't very good vs a Kings team that has Sutter coaching and plenty of vets up front.
It's just not that big of a deal.
PJ Kings Hockey
Registered User
- Oct 15, 2013
- 4,861
- 73
SettlementRichie10
Registered User
- May 6, 2012
- 10,239
- 8,526
Seems like a lot of excuse making around here for Dean's poor asset management.
You really can't compare the Carter and Gaborik deals to Lucic. Gaborik was a low risk high reward rental, and Carter was a hockey deal. Neither of those deals were going to bite us in the ass, not unless Carter got catastrophically injured and couldn't play out his contract.
Lucic was a desperation Hail Mary. There was no good outcome for that trade short of a third Cup. That's why it was a bad deal.
Dean has mismanaged every asset in his pocketbook since June of 2014. That's why the team is in the shape it is today. Yes, he was dealt some unfair cards, but he hadn't responded well.
It's clear as day that the better timeline for the Kings is keeping Williams at 3.5. "You gotta take a shot" doesn't excuse poor trading. We were "taking a shot" in 2012 and 2014, too, though with monumentally less risk.
That's how Dean used to GM - low risk high reward. But he lost sight of that somewhere between Richards falling off the wagon and Voynov hitting his wife.
Like BigKing said, spilled milk at this point.
You really can't compare the Carter and Gaborik deals to Lucic. Gaborik was a low risk high reward rental, and Carter was a hockey deal. Neither of those deals were going to bite us in the ass, not unless Carter got catastrophically injured and couldn't play out his contract.
Lucic was a desperation Hail Mary. There was no good outcome for that trade short of a third Cup. That's why it was a bad deal.
Dean has mismanaged every asset in his pocketbook since June of 2014. That's why the team is in the shape it is today. Yes, he was dealt some unfair cards, but he hadn't responded well.
It's clear as day that the better timeline for the Kings is keeping Williams at 3.5. "You gotta take a shot" doesn't excuse poor trading. We were "taking a shot" in 2012 and 2014, too, though with monumentally less risk.
That's how Dean used to GM - low risk high reward. But he lost sight of that somewhere between Richards falling off the wagon and Voynov hitting his wife.
Like BigKing said, spilled milk at this point.
damacles1156
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2010
- 21,668
- 1,318
Kings are in this situation, because they have drafted extremely poorly since 2011 (minus Pearson).
Since 2011, the Kings only have Pearson/Shore, that have played 100 NHL games. That is awful drafting, you have to nail some picks, even with your meager low end picks. Put it this way, 2010, was the last year the Kings actually drafted two roster players (Toffoli/Forbort).
That's the price you pay, for winning Cups, sometimes.
It's come home to roost.
Last edited:
damacles1156
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2010
- 21,668
- 1,318
The Kings have to start drafting better, Immediately.
Futa and his staff, have to turn this trend around.
Prospects that Lombardi drafted, and traded away since 2011, games played in NHL: a whopping 79 (Miller 66, Fasching 13). That is terrible.
Colin Miller is the only one currently on an NHL team.
Futa and his staff, have to turn this trend around.
Prospects that Lombardi drafted, and traded away since 2011, games played in NHL: a whopping 79 (Miller 66, Fasching 13). That is terrible.
Colin Miller is the only one currently on an NHL team.
Last edited:
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
"just sign williams at 3.5" completely ignores the context I posted above.
I don't really disagree with the other stuff but there is definitely a clear thought process by DL through it. Doesn't mean it's GOOD, but it's not nonsensical.
Guess I just don't expect the team to stay at a level to compete for a cup year after year. Kings had a good run, lost some guys now they need to wait on development. Don't understand this, "we spent all our asset" stuff. That's what you do to get over the top.
Lucic wasn't a desperation move. It was supposed to be paired with Voynov coming back. Kings effectively lost 2 top 4 PMD. That would have made a huge difference.
The draft picks don't matter all that much as the Kings have enough star talent on the team. They could use an upgrade at 3C, although Dowd's playing well and it may not be needed. Other then that just a RHD and Quick back and they're right back in this.
So I don't get this catastrophic stuff. They need a couple of depth players and maybe a rookie or 2 to make an impact. I'm surprised as hell that they're hanging onto a playoff spot with Quick out and Budaj as the number 1. What else do you really expect?
Edit: How would adding an 18-19 year old wing change anything for this team right now?
Lucic wasn't a desperation move. It was supposed to be paired with Voynov coming back. Kings effectively lost 2 top 4 PMD. That would have made a huge difference.
The draft picks don't matter all that much as the Kings have enough star talent on the team. They could use an upgrade at 3C, although Dowd's playing well and it may not be needed. Other then that just a RHD and Quick back and they're right back in this.
So I don't get this catastrophic stuff. They need a couple of depth players and maybe a rookie or 2 to make an impact. I'm surprised as hell that they're hanging onto a playoff spot with Quick out and Budaj as the number 1. What else do you really expect?
Edit: How would adding an 18-19 year old wing change anything for this team right now?
- Status
