Around the League '16-'17 Other Teams' Free Agent Frenzy

[KINGS17]

No worse than all the armchair GMs around here who insist they're better than actual GMs and Owners. Fantasy hockey I suppose.

Although hindsight makes everybody a genius.

Yeah, I suppose that's how you explain the "armchair" GMs around here advocating a Carter trade up to 2-3 seasons ago. I call that foresight, but those kind of people can't compare to the geniuses who want to hang onto assets until they have little to no value.

 

[KingsFan7824]

You'd think sending Martin Jones 3000 miles east wouldn't come back to haunt us. Seriously, what was Deano thinking trading him to a team that already had a bonafide starter? Not suggesting that we should've kept him, but he could've been sent to an Eastern team that truly needed a goalie. Now Jones is helping a rival win games and on top of that, he always beats us.

Jones was a RFA. Even if he was traded to a different team, if he wanted to go to SJ, he could still have signed with SJ. The late 1st Boston ended up with(since they didn't get a 2015 1st round pick) isn't currently helping the Bruins, and the former 133rd overall pick they got had 6 goals this year. But, he does have a couple in the playoffs already, which is more than Lucic had with the Kings.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yeah, I suppose that's how you explain the "armchair" GMs around here advocating a Carter trade up to 2-3 seasons ago. I call that foresight, but those kind of people can't compare to the geniuses who want to hang onto assets until they have little to no value.

LOL only if NHL was played on PS4, and computers.....it should be that easy right?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Yeah, I suppose that's how you explain the "armchair" GMs around here advocating a Carter trade up to 2-3 seasons ago. I call that foresight, but those kind of people can't compare to the geniuses who want to hang onto assets until they have little to no value.

It's not like Boston traded Lucic before his 18 goal/44 point season. You can't expect the Kings to trade Carter. If he had a year left on his deal at the age of 31, 32, 33, maybe then. The vast majority of teams hang into any hope of competitiveness.

The Bruins traded Lucic, then gave money to Beleskey a few days later. Gave even more money on a 5 year deal to a 32 year old Backes the following summer. Didn't trade soon-to-be-UFA Eriksson in a year when they missed the playoffs. None of that was smart, but they're winning right now, so it's not a big deal.

 

[KINGS17]

LOL only if NHL was played on PS4, and computers.....it should be that easy right?

It's exactly that easy. The Kings could have received quite a bit from a team like Nashville a couple of seasons ago at the deadline when they were looking for a 2C.

Besides, it wasn't the question at all. Someone said hindsight is 20/20. I pointed out there are several people who had foresight. When someone points out the flaws in some of these arguments the go to BS "video game" argument is brought forward. It's extreme intellectual dishonesty on the part of people who do it, but enjoy.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It's exactly that easy. The Kings could have received quite a bit from a team like Nashville a couple of seasons ago at the deadline when they were looking for a 2C.

Besides, it wasn't the question at all. Someone said hindsight is 20/20. I pointed out there are several people who had foresight. When someone points out the flaws in some of these arguments the go to BS "video game" argument is brought forward. It's extreme intellectual dishonesty on the part of people who do it, but enjoy.

No it's not, because in reality, there are other circumstances to consider, chemistry in the room, there's a whole human element, the culture of the room, etc. It's like you think players make decisions in a vacuum, either they win or they get paid, or hopefully both, and it's not like that...there are a ton of other factors involved, and I would say 80% of them are human factors that you seem to dismiss as nonsense.

 

[KINGS17]

No it's not, because in reality, there are other circumstances to consider, chemistry in the room, there's a whole human element, the culture of the room, etc. It's like you think players make decisions in a vacuum, either they win or they get paid, or hopefully both, and it's not like that...there are a ton of other factors involved, and I would say 80% of them are human factors that you seem to dismiss as nonsense.

I don't dismiss the human factor. I think you give it too much weight in terms of "Uh oh, new players won't sign with the Kings if they trade Carter, Muzzin, and Maritnez."

Players want to play. Young players want to play in the NHL as soon as possible. They don't give a flying fig about the Kings trading some vets to make room for them. You need to keep enough veteran leadership in the room to make it a good atmosphere for the young guys to grow. That doesn't mean keep all the vets.

Remember how many "fillers" and "bridge players" Lombardi signed in the early days of his tenure? No of course you don't, you have a short memory regarding how the 2011-12 through 2013-14 success was attained.

Q: What was Dean's first big move as GM of the Kings?
A: Trade Pavol Demitra. I bet you hated that deal, because Demitra proven 25+ goal scorer vs O'Sullivan (which became Justin Williams) and a 1st round pick (Trevor Lewis). The two assets acquired in exchange for Demitra complete NHL unknowns at the time. How on earth could Dean do that deal?

Q: How old was Pavol Demitra when Dean traded him?
A: 31

Then there was the dirty trick Dean played on Visnovsky. Not a single NHL UFA ever gave consideration to signing with the Kings after Lombardi screwed Lubo over, right?

Yes, I dismiss many of the factors you give too much weight to as nonsense.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I don't dismiss the human factor. I think you give it too much weight in terms of "Uh oh, new players won't sign with the Kings if they trade Carter, Muzzin, and Maritnez."

Players want to play. Young players want to play in the NHL as soon as possible. They don't give a flying fig about the Kings trading some vets to make room for them. You need to keep enough veteran leadership in the room to make it a good atmosphere for the young guys to grow. That doesn't mean keep all the vets.

Remember how many "fillers" and "bridge players" Lombardi signed in the early days of his tenure? No of course you don't, you have a short memory regarding how the 2011-12 through 2013-14 success was attained.

Q: What was Dean's first big move as GM of the Kings?
A: Trade Pavol Demitra. I bet you hated that deal, because Demitra proven 25+ goal scorer vs O'Sullivan (which became Justin Williams) and a 1st round pick (Trevor Lewis). The two assets acquired in exchange for Demitra complete NHL unknowns at the time. How on earth could Dean do that deal?

Q: How old was Pavol Demitra when Dean traded him?
A: 31

Then there was the dirty trick Dean played on Visnovsky. Not a single NHL UFA ever gave consideration to signing with the Kings after Lombardi screwed Lubo over, right?

Yes, I dismiss many of the factors you give too much weight to as nonsense.

LOL you make way too many assumptions....

First of all, I remember almost half the board wanting Lombardi fired before 2011, etc,

And Lombardi's first big move was not trading Pavol Demitra, you really want to know what his first big move was that set up the win in 2012?

He revamped the entire minor league system, the entire scouting system, he put procedures in place to ensure that the Kings don't do exactly what many of you are saying they should do now, play kids that have no business playing at the NHL level...he put a stop to that, it ruined a helluva lot of players doing it that way.

That was his first move, and it was probably the most important one.

You think I don't want Carter to be traded because of what OTHER players might think outside the organization? Then you haven't been paying attention to what I have been saying. First, you trade Carter, you can kiss Doughty goodbye, second, you want Carter around to mentor guys like Vilardi, Dolan, Clague, etc, his work ethic, dedication to training, to being a pro, those are the traits you want those young players, to take on as their own and develop...you think they are going to get that or listen to Clifford, or Lewis etc?

Again, for you, it comes down to, he's 31, trade him for a 19 year old, because I can do that in NHL 18 and I win....

For reality, it's not that simple.

 

[KINGS17]

LOL you make way too many assumptions....

First of all, I remember almost half the board wanting Lombardi fired before 2011, etc,

And Lombardi's first big move was not trading Pavol Demitra, you really want to know what his first big move was that set up the win in 2012?

He revamped the entire minor league system, the entire scouting system, he put procedures in place to ensure that the Kings don't do exactly what many of you are saying they should do now, play kids that have no business playing at the NHL level...he put a stop to that, it ruined a helluva lot of players doing it that way.

That was his first move, and it was probably the most important one.

You think I don't want Carter to be traded because of what OTHER players might think outside the organization? Then you haven't been paying attention to what I have been saying. First, you trade Carter, you can kiss Doughty goodbye, second, you want Carter around to mentor guys like Vilardi, Dolan, Clague, etc, his work ethic, dedication to training, to being a pro, those are the traits you want those young players, to take on as their own and develop...you think they are going to get that or listen to Clifford, or Lewis etc?

Again, for you, it comes down to, he's 31, trade him for a 19 year old, because I can do that in NHL 18 and I win....

For reality, it's not that simple.

If Carter gets traded and Doughty wants out, then Doughty isn't in it for the long haul any way. Bye, bye Drew.

Why do the Kings have to keep Carter? What the hell are we paying Kopitar and Brown to do, if they aren't going to show young players how to be pros?

In reality, it's that simple. You go to the draft and you approach teams X, Y, and Z and ask them what they will give you for Jeff Carter. Bettman gets handed a piece of paper, steps to the podium and says, "I have a trade to announce...", just like he did it when Demitra was traded.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

If Carter gets traded and Doughty wants out, then Doughty isn't in it for the long haul any way. Bye, bye Drew.

Why do the Kings have to keep Carter? What the hell are we paying Kopitar and Brown to do, if they aren't going to show young players how to be pros?

In reality, it's that simple. You go to the draft and you approach teams X, Y, and Z and ask them what they will give you for Jeff Carter. Bettman gets handed a piece of paper, steps to the podium and says, "I have a trade to announce...", just like he did it when Demitra was traded.

Again, NHL 18 for you.....

You keep Carter around because you need more than 2 leaders, It's mind boggling that I have to explain this to you....

You think on a team with 23 personalities, that everyone is going to listen to just one person? You've never been part of a team before have you? I don't mean office team building turn around while I catch you while I fall crap....

 

[KINGS17]

Again, NHL 18 for you.....

You keep Carter around because you need more than 2 leaders, It's mind boggling that I have to explain this to you....

You think on a team with 23 personalities, that everyone is going to listen to just one person? You've never been part of a team before have you? I don't mean office team building turn around while I catch you while I fall crap....

It's mind boggling you don't think Trevor Lewis and Jonathan Quick aren't leaders.

Again with the lame video game reference? It tells me you have nothing legit to say in response.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It's mind boggling you don't think Trevor Lewis and Jonathan Quick aren't leaders.

Again with the lame video game reference? It tells me you have nothing legit to say in response.

They are both over 31, I just had assumed you were going to trade them as well

 

[KINGS17]

It would be huge for the Caps if they can find a way to win this game tonight.

Why do I think even if they do, they will find a way to come from ahead and lose this series anyway?

 

[kingsfan28]

If Carter gets traded and Doughty wants out, then Doughty isn't in it for the long haul any way. Bye, bye Drew.

Why do the Kings have to keep Carter? What the hell are we paying Kopitar and Brown to do, if they aren't going to show young players how to be pros?

In reality, it's that simple. You go to the draft and you approach teams X, Y, and Z and ask them what they will give you for Jeff Carter. Bettman gets handed a piece of paper, steps to the podium and says, "I have a trade to announce...", just like he did it when Demitra was traded.

Demitra and Carter are completely different guys. One is an ultimate pro, a leader in the room , the other helped divide it during that crap season. Lombardi cleaned house because there were so many bad apples in the room and needed to overhal the entire organization. He didn't trade Demitra trying to sell high that's for sure.

 

[KINGS17]

Demitra and Carter are completely different guys. One is an ultimate pro, a leader in the room , the other helped divide it during that crap season. Lombardi cleaned house because there were so many bad apples in the room and needed to overhal the entire organization. He didn't trade Demitra trying to sell high that's for sure.

The inside scoop was Demitra had a problem distinguishing between being hurt and injured. If that makes him a bad apple, okay.

Carter is a different type of player to be sure when it comes to leadership, but so is Lewis, Brown, and Quick. How many leadership guys do they need? Certainly not all of them from the cup legacy teams. Since the Kings aren't contending with Carter, and he is their best "chip", I think I would like to see Blake find out what he can get for Carter on the trade market. In that way Carter could end up paying dividends over the next 10 years instead of the next 3 years tops.

 

[KINGS17]

The Guentzl kid is on fire in the playoffs.

 

[kingsfan28]

The inside scoop was Demitra had a problem distinguishing between being hurt and injured. If that makes him a bad apple, okay.

Carter is a different type of player to be sure when it comes to leadership, but so is Lewis, Brown, and Quick. How many leadership guys do they need? Certainly not all of them from the cup legacy teams. Since the Kings aren't contending with Carter, and he is their best "chip", I think I would like to see Blake find out what he can get for Carter on the trade market. In that way Carter could end up paying dividends over the next 10 years instead of the next 3 years tops.

Lewis is a vet, not a leader. Trading Carter would create a massive hole not only in the 2c position as well as scoring. Who is going to make up for his missing 30 plus goals over that span, some 19 year old kid who gets knocked off the puck year after year by Kesler and can't win a draw to save his life?

 

[KINGS17]

Lewis is a vet, not a leader. Trading Carter would create a massive hole not only in the 2c position as well as scoring. Who is going to make up for his missing 30 plus goals over that span, some 19 year old kid who gets knocked off the puck year after year by Kesler and can't win a draw to save his life?

Who cares? The Kings aren't winning with Carter on the roster. Go out and get a veteran UFA "filler" to play 2C, or pick up one in the Carter trade along with the future assets. You guys keep worrying about next year's team, which isn't going to contend anyway. I'm really not concerned about the difference in being first round fodder and the 5th place team in the Pacific Division. In the meantime Carter's value will depreciate even further if the Kings keep him another season.

Not sure why you don't regard Lewis as a leader in the room. The guy plays his guts out every night. Again, I wouldn't throw a kid to the wolves if he can't handle it.

 

[Herby]

Lewis is a vet, not a leader. Trading Carter would create a massive hole not only in the 2c position as well as scoring.

So what?

It's a black hole comment, Carter helps the Kings go from being a lottery team to a wildcard team who get crushed in the 1st round, it's the Dave Taylor era all over again where the Kings finished 5th-8th every year and got trounced by better teams. If the goal is to win a Stanley Cup you should trade Carter and reload with some of the younger assets you get for him.

 

[KINGS17]

Man Suban can really shoot the puck. If Doughty had a shot like that to add to everything else he does well, he truly would be Superman.

 

[kenito7]

The inside scoop was Demitra had a problem distinguishing between being hurt and injured. If that makes him a bad apple, okay.

Carter is a different type of player to be sure when it comes to leadership, but so is Lewis, Brown, and Quick. How many leadership guys do they need? Certainly not all of them from the cup legacy teams. Since the Kings aren't contending with Carter, and he is their best "chip", I think I would like to see Blake find out what he can get for Carter on the trade market. In that way Carter could end up paying dividends over the next 10 years instead of the next 3 years tops.

You say Kings aren't contending with Carter and I agree with you but I see no signs that Blake agrees with this. Maybe at the trade deadline if the Kings are out of it maybe you can get a return like the Rangers got for Nash. There always teams selling out for this year at the trade deadline.

As long as Blake thinks the Kings are contenders Carter is going nowhere.

 

[johnjm22]

The idea that Demitra was a "bad apple" is nonsense. He was traded because the Kings needed to rebuild and was an obvious asset that could be moved.

 

[kenito7]

So what?

It's a black hole comment, Carter helps the Kings go from being a lottery team to a wildcard team who get crushed in the 1st round, it's the Dave Taylor era all over again where the Kings finished 5th-8th every year and got trounced by better teams. If the goal is to win a Stanley Cup you should trade Carter and reload with some of the younger assets you get for him.

Dave Taylor era? That was every year in the 70's and 80's until
McNall took control and brought in Gretzky. Didn't bring no Cups but brought at least some hope for more than 1ST round knockouts

 

[kingsfan28]

Man Suban can really shoot the puck. If Doughty had a shot like that to add to everything else he does well, he truly would be Superman.

Doughty would actually have to look where he's shooting first. He's even admitted that when he shoots, he has no idea where it will go most times.

 

[KINGS17]

You say Kings aren't contending with Carter and I agree with you but I see no signs that Blake agrees with this. Maybe at the trade deadline if the Kings are out of it maybe you can get a return like the Rangers got for Nash. There always teams selling out for this year at the trade deadline.

As long as Blake thinks the Kings are contenders Carter is going nowhere.

I agree. I just don't think this is what Blake should be thinking. Hope is not a plan.