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Around the League '16-'17 351 Poster Games Lost to Injury Edition

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KINGS17 said:
...and Toffoli has done it ONCE. By the age of 25 Brown had done it twice and didn't stop doing it for another four years.

Brown was consistently producing 50-point seasons during that span of six years, and led the NHL in hitting. That's a top line winger.
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Dustin Brown's first four seasons in the league:

5, 28, 46, 60

Tyler Toffoli's first four seasons in the league:

5, 29, 49, 58

So really the big difference straight production wise is Toffoli is getting an arbitrary punishment for breaking into the league at 21 instead of 19. Guess I didn't get the memo that a guy can't be a first liner unless he breaks into the league before age 20. Someone better alert Jamie Benn and some others that development is linear starting at 18 and ending at 25.

Do not disagree that here on out matters for consistency but I don't see any reason he just falls off the map.
 
-Marchessault, 28 goals, $750k
-Kopitar, Brown, Gaborik, 32 goals, $20.75m
-Being able to complain on the internet, priceless
 
Brown broke in at 18, and it was a mistake. Toffoli would have had a better chance performing brain surgery than playing in the NHL at 18.

When TT or TP play like Brown did in the 2012 playoffs we can call them first line wingers.
 
Herby said:
Brown broke in at 18, and it was a mistake. Toffoli would have had a better chance performing brain surgery than playing in the NHL at 18.

When TT or TP play like Brown did in the 2012 playoffs we can call them first line wingers.
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Exactly. The creative use and cherry picking of statistics doesn't make the case for Toffoli being Brown's equal.

The lockout season may have helped Brown's career more than any of us will know. He went down to the AHL along with Cammalleri and found the confidence to produce some offense in the NHL.
 
If Toffoli and Pearson aren't 1st line guys, they better trade them soon, because things are only going to get worse with their new contracts.
 
KINGS17 said:
Exactly. The creative use and cherry picking of statistics doesn't make the case for Toffoli being Brown's equal.

The lockout season may have helped Brown's career more than any of us will know. He went down to the AHL along with Cammalleri and found the confidence to produce some offense in the NHL.
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You're right, that wouldn't, except that's not what I was saying at all.

You were trying to paint Brown as some ideal first liner and TT as not a top liner. I showed you the difference between their production while breaking into the league was minimal. youre throwing out a completely arbitrary age restriction while intentionally ignoring context.

I suppose TT (and TP) could fall off the map at this point, but I think people have either a warped sense of what "first line production" is given there's not even a handful of points between the two, or lack a sense of what top line wingers around the league do. I think people think "top line winger" and immediately think of the Kane/Benn tier and flat out ignore the Kyle Palmieri tier because it makes it easier to bash the GM/drafting.

There's a lot more grey area between elite wingers and "solid top sixers" than is being sold here.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
You're right, that wouldn't, except that's not what I was saying at all.

You were trying to paint Brown as some ideal first liner and TT as not a top liner. I showed you the difference between their production while breaking into the league was minimal.

I suppose TT (and TP) could fall off the map at this point, but I think people have either a warped sense of what "first line production" is given there's not even a handful of points between the two, or lack a sense of what top line wingers around the league do. I think people think "top line winger" and immediately think of the Kane/Benn tier and flat out ignore the Kyle Palmieri tier because it makes it easier to bash the GM/drafting.

There's a lot more grey area between elite wingers and "solid top sixers" than is being sold here.
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How did I paint Brown as ideal? I called him "average" for a 1st line winger.

Geez, you would think I said Toffoli and Pearson suck. No, I said they are solid top sixers. Dean should be careful with their new deals.
 
Herby said:
Brown broke in at 18, and it was a mistake. Toffoli would have had a better chance performing brain surgery than playing in the NHL at 18.

When TT or TP play like Brown did in the 2012 playoffs we can call them first line wingers.
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Today I learned the only first line wingers in the league are PPG Captains of cup winners. Oh wait, that would mean there are zero.

I guess if we remove positional and captain restrictions, there are a handful of first-line wingers in the league--Crosby, Marchand, Kane, McDavid, Backstrom, Kucherov, Schiefele, Malkin.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Today I learned the only first line wingers in the league are PPG Captains of cup winners. Oh wait, that would mean there are zero.

I guess if we remove positional and captain restrictions, there are a handful of first-line wingers in the league--Crosby, Marchand, Kane, McDavid, Backstrom, Kucherov, Schiefele, Malkin.
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I would say today, you learned nothing.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
I would say that I learned some people lack perspective of league-wide performance as a contextual control as demonstrated.
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Time will tell with Toffoli and Pearson. You have to at least admit Dustin Brown over those six seasons never really took a step back like Toffoli has this season.

For me, on their best days, Toffoli isn't in Brown's class in terms of his overall game. Brown hit, and put up points on a consistent basis for six seasons. Toffoli hasn't done it.
 
KINGS17 said:
Time will tell with Toffoli and Pearson. You have to at least admit Dustin Brown over those six seasons never really took a step back like Toffoli has this season.

For me, on their best days, Toffoli isn't in Brown's class in terms of his overall game. Brown hit, and put up points on a consistent basis for six seasons. Toffoli hasn't done it.
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Hey I'm agreeing with all of that. Toffoli has a long way to go in terms of raw endurance to match Brownie. Brown was one of the best RWs in the league for years and years, and was glued to Kopitar's side forming a great tandem. He also experienced relative health, though, and I'm willing to give Toffoli the benefit of the doubt on injury this year, yet his production isn't TOO far off anyway. Now if he doesn't bounce back? We'll have issues for sure. But his trajectory has been upward towards 30 goals, 50-60 points. In no era since the 80s is that not first line production.
 
Kucherov - Flat out amazing display of leadership.....

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/03/25...rying-to-carry-the-lightning-to-the-playoffs/

The Bolts have had injury problems most of the year , losing Stamkos for a large part of it. They trade 2 other centers (Boyle , Filppula) at the deadline which left their center depth pretty threadbare, then they lost 3 more (Johnson, Paquette and Namestnikov) in March.

I wrote them off in Feb, but somebody forget to tell Kucherov.

In the last five weeks, since Feb 20, he has 17 goals and 29 pts, (including 7 goals in his last 4 games and multiple pts in each one)
He is carrying this team on his back , dragging them in the thick of the WC race. Right now with 81 pts they are 2 pt out of the last WC (Boston 84) so they are battling back.


He has 1.16 PPG , right now 3rd in NHL behind Crosby and McDavid.
Since that stretch began on Feb. 20, Kucherov has scored 17 goals (four more than any other player in the league) and recorded 29 total points (eight more than any other player) to be the single biggest driving force behind the Lightning offense. His 29 points during that stretch mean he has had a hand (scoring or assisting) in 66 percent of the team’s goals (they have 44 during that stretch). He has scored close to 40 percent of them himself
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Good for the Bolts, that is not the kind of stuff you can teach or learn. That comes from a burning desire deep inside that you either have or you don't. Couple that with his talent and you have one very very special player.

Props to him...I hope they get in , he deserves that reward
 
Jake Hahn‏
@jhahn4

Bobrovsky in March: 8-0-1, 0.99 GAA, .970 SV%, 4 shutouts. #Vezina

on the year 40-13-5 with GAA 1.99. save % .934

Bob's sizzling right now.

You know I've loved him since his rookie yr with the fLyers , which had me excited, best young , talented goalie since Pelle lingbergh . Brillant rookie yr and then Ed 'patience and foresight of flea' Snider , throws him away , despite your goalie coach telling you this kid (who didn't speak or understand Englisha nd new 0 about NA hockey) only needed a couple of full season to get used to NA and he'd be good enough for a Vezina.
John Davidson jumped all over that and he rest is Blue Jackets history.

He's playing so well right now, and there is enough talent in front ofhim, this team could do some damage in the playoffs.
I know they ware hunting for a top center and have the prospects , young players to package to get a Duchene maybe , for next year going forward . They are going to be a Cup contender in the next couple yrs.
Fun team to watch.

Love the Jones- Werenski pairing
 
KINGS17 said:
I'm rooting for Columbus to make some noise in the East.
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I think they will make quite a bit of noise. Have been a huge fan since Bob went there and I love the way they play.
The usually have great battles with the PEns and Dubinsky historically gives Crosby fits. And right now Bob is playing at the top of his game, I'd say best in the EAst.

If they stay healthy, I think they could be a dark horse to go to the ECF.
 
Of course the Rangers used their elite starting goalie on us and their backup goalie on the Ducks.


:sarcasm: for the inevitable retort
 
Here's an interesting stat: Ryan Getzlaf has more assists (52) than Kopitar has points (46).

In case you were wondering, Getzlaf has 66 points on the season. I think we'd all be ecstatic if Kopitar gets as many points next season.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Here's an interesting stat: Ryan Getzlaf has more assists (52) than Kopitar has points (46).

In case you were wondering, Getzlaf has 66 points on the season. I think we'd all be ecstatic if Kopitar gets as many points next season.
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Must be nice for getzlaugh to get to play with actual 1st line wingers. I would love to see him play a season with king and Lewis flanking him to see if he still produces.

Not defending kopi at all, but the difference in wingers is definitely noticeable.
 
Herby said:
Wrong Winger!

I just popped in my NHL04 and Gaborik and Iginla are two of the highest rated wingers in the game!
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That must be how Dean Lombardi makes his decisions, bringing in players a decade too late. Hell, we can go back to his first big UFA signing as an example of this with Rob Blake. Then again, he did the same thing in San Jose as well.
 
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