Around Hockey XIV (All Non-Jackets Hockey talk in here)

[EspenK]

I don't know about anyone else, but I for one am torn on who to root for in Game 7. Bitter that the Pens beat us, but man do I ever hate seeing those guys on the Rangers doing well.

Never quite figured out the Rangers hate around here. They have a lot of good players who aren't a-holes like Lucic, Crosby, et al. Lundqvist is great. Loved him squirting Crosby.


Put me down as rooting for a Ranger win

 

[Xoggz22]

Never quite figured out the Rangers hate around here. They have a lot of good players who aren't a-holes like Lucic, Crosby, et al. Lundqvist is great. Loved him squirting Crosby.


Put me down as rooting for a Ranger win

For me... Growing up an Islander fan = Ranger Hater! I am so torn with this series because I can't stand either team. Wife wants the Pens to lose, I spent 40+ years hating the Rangers. Both fan bases are obnoxious as hell. Man it's a tough choice. My C R Y hate may trump the 1940 hate!

Go Rangers?

 

[EspenK]

For me... Growing up an Islander fan = Ranger Hater! I am so torn with this series because I can't stand either team. Wife wants the Pens to lose, I spent 40+ years hating the Rangers. Both fan bases are obnoxious as hell. Man it's a tough choice. My C R Y hate may trump the 1940 hate!

Go Rangers?

The lesser of two evils I guess

 

[Derby]

I want both Bruins and Habs to win.

I want both the Pens and Rangers to lose.

Sucks to be me.

 

[EdwardG]

That would qualify as a "bad turnover."

 

[major major]

And now Gabs has a two goal lead in playoff goal scoring. Perhaps I was wrong to think he was washed up. I wonder what Jarmo was thinking.

 

[stevo61]

And now Gabs has a two goal lead in playoff goal scoring. Perhaps I was wrong to think he was washed up. I wonder what Jarmo was thinking.

Maybe something around the fact that if someone does good on one team it doesn't mean it's going to happen on another?

 

[JKinCLE]

Maybe something around the fact that if someone does good on one team it doesn't mean it's going to happen on another?

I don't buy that. It shouldn't be a surprise that he's playing at a superstar level. He didn't fit in with this team because he never got a chance to. He started slow-ish, still was putting up points. I believe he was second in points first time he got hurt.

When he fully recovered after the collar bone, he was shipped out a week later. I'd say quite a few were coming into this year assuming he would have one of his "up" years and score close to 40. Now that's he's playing, he is playing at that level. In the playoffs no less.

I don't know what upper management was thinking, especially considering he wanted to be in Columbus. It was so contradictory to claim he was acting as our deadline piece for our run, and then ships him out a week or so later. Gaborik was one of my favorites in the league, and I was almost giddy when we acquired him. I will never like this trade.

(unless we get another second round gem like Boone, but I'm not holding my breath)

 

[db2011]

Maybe something around the fact that if someone does good on one team it doesn't mean it's going to happen on another?

I don't buy it, either. Then why make trades at all? I'm not going to sit here and say he'd have the same totals for us if he hadn't been traded, but to shrug our shoulders and say the trade was a-ok because "he didn't fit"/"we had to get something for him because his contract was up"/"just cause he's doing well there doesn't mean he'd be doing well here" smacks of denial or some kind of defense mechanism. No way was that the thinking.

It was either something around things we don't know, or it was a very bad assessment of the current skill of the guy, one based on scant evidence because as was noted, he never got a chance here, really. It was an awful trade.

Thanks, Jarmo.

***

For me, it's go Rags. Don't like em much at all, but can not stand the Pens. The tie breaker is the way the Pens fans invade NWA. That just makes the competition between our team and theirs more intimate and the disdain more palpable.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Who the hell cares what Gaborik does in LA. He looks like 4x the player he was there than he looked in every single game he played here. It happens, he's a better fit there. He wasn't good here.

Go Pens. Hate Nash, Brass, and all of our other hamidowns. Pens can rot next round.

 

[db2011]

Who the hell cares what Gaborik does in LA. He looks like 4x the player he was there than he looked in every single game he played here. It happens, he's a better fit there. He wasn't good here.

Go Pens. Hate Nash, Brass, and all of our other hamidowns. Pens can rot next round.

Trades are evaluated based on what each team got in return, and the performance of the players involved in the trades inform those evaluations. You're a smart enough poster not to need that even said.

The point a couple of us are trying to make is that it isn't the case that "he's a better fit there", it's that the perception that "he wasn't good here" is due to the fact that he was just getting healthy. And in fact, he wasn't doing too poorly either. In fact, basically you're whole post isn't much more than a reactionary response to criticisms of the trade that only goes to support my post.

Let me put it this way: while I wanted to keep him even if he walked at the end of the year, there are Gabby trades I could have lived with. The one we got is light years away from being acceptable.

 

[Crede777]

The point a couple of us are trying to make is that it isn't the case that "he's a better fit there", it's that the perception that "he wasn't good here" is due to the fact that he was just getting healthy.

Agreed. We have no idea how good he actually was because he was never healthy and we were too impatient to wait and see. Now he's healthy and look...

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Agreed. We have no idea how good he actually was because he was never healthy and we were too impatient to wait and see. Now he's healthy and look...

... Into your crystal ball?

Gaborik had just returned back into action just before trade deadline so there wasn't actually that much time to decide whether he would be a real key player for this team in what might not have been even a play-off struggle to begin with. For Los Angeles Kings he might be first-line winger alongside one of the top centreman's, Kopitar and another succesful first round pick but that doesn't translate to huge play-offs victories on this side of the fence when Blue Jackets still have to improve in many ways that ain't quickly fixed with "rentals" but brick by brick. By bricks that don't likely leave your house in the summer.

They made the play-offs which can still be counted as progress. This team wasn't special enough to take anything more from those games even if you add any ice hockey player in the world for the spot Gaborik manned for them. I'm sure that second and third round picks will eventually help more than Gaborik in a race towards Stanley Cup which hasn't even truly begun despite making the play-offs.

Gaborik might have also liked it here but I'm sure he would also like it in 29 other organizations too if they would come up with better offer thanks to his UFA availibity. Which they would have been likely to do in any case since it went how it went and you could have always ended up with nothing, not even the play-offs.

Safe thing was trade, you got something for the future. Which then might be as at least succesful as Gaborik to Kings deal for them (series victory over San Jose Sharks?) but you might get to see them on long-term like Bjorkstrand or Heatherington even if it ain't so exciting to see them play it out as it would be watching someone with superstar status.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Never quite figured out the Rangers hate around here. They have a lot of good players who aren't a-holes like Lucic, Crosby, et al. Lundqvist is great. Loved him squirting Crosby.

You're basically saying you loved him pulling an a-hole move, which you previously claim to hate. Unless your one of those relative morality types.

The Rangers are loaded with d-bags. Plus they're the Rangers. **** 'em.

 

[Fro]

You're basically saying you loved him pulling an a-hole move, which you previously claim to hate. Unless your one of those relative morality types.

The Rangers are loaded with d-bags. Plus they're the Rangers. **** 'em.

your black and gold bias is showing again

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

... Into your crystal ball?

Gaborik had just returned back into action just before trade deadline so there wasn't actually that much time to decide whether he would be a real key player for this team in what might not have been even a play-off struggle to begin with. For Los Angeles Kings he might be first-line winger alongside one of the top centreman's, Kopitar and another succesful first round pick but that doesn't translate to huge play-offs victories on this side of the fence when Blue Jackets still have to improve in many ways that ain't quickly fixed with "rentals" but brick by brick. By bricks that don't likely leave your house in the summer.

They made the play-offs which can still be counted as progress. This team wasn't special enough to take anything more from those games even if you add any ice hockey player in the world for the spot Gaborik manned for them. I'm sure that second and third round picks will eventually help more than Gaborik in a race towards Stanley Cup which hasn't even truly begun despite making the play-offs.

Gaborik might have also liked it here but I'm sure he would also like it in 29 other organizations too if they would come up with better offer thanks to his UFA availibity. Which they would have been likely to do in any case since it went how it went and you could have always ended up with nothing, not even the play-offs.

Safe thing was trade, you got something for the future. Which then might be as at least succesful as Gaborik to Kings deal for them (series victory over San Jose Sharks?) but you might get to see them on long-term like Bjorkstrand or Heatherington even if it ain't so exciting to see them play it out as it would be watching someone with superstar status.

So we should look into your crystal ball instead?

 

[EspenK]

You're basically saying you loved him pulling an a-hole move, which you previously claim to hate. Unless your one of those relative morality types.

The Rangers are loaded with d-bags. Plus they're the Rangers. **** 'em.

your black and gold bias is showing again

Agree with fro

And Lundqvist's d-bag move was a retaliatory one so its okay.

Let's Go Rangers

 

[Fro]

the thing that doesn't add up for me is teams will trade for an expiring contract at the deadline all the time...he had something like 12 points in 18 games since coming back, he was almost our own rental sorta like we thought Horton was going to be before he messed around and got a hernia...oh well...c'mon Kings tie it up tomorrow! Force another game 7!

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

So we should look into your crystal ball instead?

Yes, if you truly think that Blue Jackets challenging for Stanley Cup this season was anything but a false dream this year. In that case two draft picks for Gaborik (that Columbus couldn't likely been able to defend in free market competition if they somehow could have justified even offering something reasonable for him based on his play and role played) contribute more towards building, not buying or selling that vision of future shown in my crystal ball.

In my mind it is just honest truth that this team with or without Gaborik doesn't have for example Los Angeles Kings kind of arsenal in their use. There ain't (yet) star players of Kopitar or Dougthy class, Bobrovski still has some questions regarding his pressure control and the process for building that core has merely began. Coaching staff has come up with two strong seasons of almost overachieving which is a positive signal. Same can be said about fair chances given to younger players and the organization behind team.

If Richards and his staff can be that difference maker it might make the road shorter but if this was a great season... Nice team identity and all in place now but it just usually takes quality to win. Even in the optimal case it takes seasons to gather that.

The only team anywhere near that same level to make even Stanley Cup finals (not winning it) this decade is New Jersey Devils (and they boasted some offensive names in Kovaltshuk, Parise and Elias) and I guess that speaks little towards why the winners for that period are Boston, Chicago and Los Angeles and not Florida, Ottawa or Buffalo out of the teams that made play-offs.

Would Dallas Stars have became more succesful with Gaborik added on prior play-offs? We don't know but honestly I think we know.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

your black and gold bias is showing again

Well I thought about addressing that but I figured I was allowed to hate the Rangers irrespective of who they were playing. I guess everything's about relative morality nowadays.

 

[Fro]

Well I thought about addressing that but I figured I was allowed to hate the Rangers irrespective of who they were playing. I guess everything's about relative morality nowadays.

 

[pete goegan]

Well I thought about addressing that but I figured I was allowed to hate the Rangers irrespective of who they were playing. I guess everything's about relative morality nowadays.

I agree that squirting Crosby was punk, but I do have a question: how is what he did worthy of a greater fine than Thornton? The play was dead. In Thornton's case, not only was the puck still in play, but Subban was carrying it! Isn't it equivalent to a bench player in football or basketball interfering with the ball carrier or ball handler? I think a fine for Lundquist is proper, but Thornton should have gotten a stiffer fine and a suspension. Having players on the bench interfere with the course of play, even in such a silly, minor way, cannot be permitted.

 

[EspenK]

Well I thought about addressing that but I figured I was allowed to hate the Rangers irrespective of who they were playing. I guess everything's about relative morality nowadays.

Except for cousins in...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Except for cousins in...

 

[Kev22]

I agree that squirting Crosby was punk, but I do have a question: how is what he did worthy of a greater fine than Thornton? The play was dead. In Thornton's case, not only was the puck still in play, but Subban was carrying it! Isn't it equivalent to a bench player in football or basketball interfering with the ball carrier or ball handler? I think a fine for Lundquist is proper, but Thornton should have gotten a stiffer fine and a suspension. Having players on the bench interfere with the course of play, even in such a silly, minor way, cannot be permitted.

I'm not sure about this, but I think the CBA allows for a fine as a percentage of a players salary. Lundqvist makes far more than Thornton, so that would make for a bigger fine.