Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

[Actual Thought*]

While possible, just because you play the eventual winner really well doesn't mean you're a lock to win the other series. You still have to go through every game. We don't know what injuries would happen, or hell, how about a surprise game 7 suspension?

The Wings have been a pretty damn good team, but nothing is a lock in the playoffs, and playing Tampa really well was promising, but that's all it was - promising. There were still 13 wins to follow if you really think they were going to win the Cup.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Probably the most obvious statement ever made. However if you can win one series against a top team logic dictates that you may be capable of winning another. The team that wins the cup is the team that is playing the best in the playoffs and has a goaltender who is going. That is why there are countless upsets. That is why you can't make definitive statements like "no way they can win unless they have x" with any accuracy. It just doesn't work that way and never has.

 

[Yemack]

While possible, just because you play the eventual winner really well doesn't mean you're a lock to win the other series. You still have to go through every game. We don't know what injuries would happen, or hell, how about a surprise game 7 suspension?

The Wings have been a pretty damn good team, but nothing is a lock in the playoffs, and playing Tampa really well was promising, but that's all it was - promising. There were still 13 wins to follow if you really think they were going to win the Cup.

i agree that we are dealing with hypothetical scenario and nothing is lock but it goes both ways. Back in 2013, I think we had a good chance for reasons I stated above.

as for last season, contrary to what TZE believe, I think Wings would have won against Habs. firstly, I dont think Wings and Habs played similar style at all and if Wings made some specific adjustment against Habs, we could have neutralized most of their attack minus Subban. Also wasn't price injured in that series?

against Rangers, well, it would have been a close series.. or even if it wasn't. it would have been close games.

As for the final, who knows. Didnt really watch the final anyways.

 

[Actual Thought*]

No way. That year our defense consisted of: Kronwall, Ericsson, Lashoff, Colaiacovo, rookie Dekeyser, Smith, and White/Huskins.

It was a miracle we made it as far as we did.

Actually it was coaching.

 

[jkutswings]

We have virtually no chance this year. We will be lucky to get into the playoffs regardless of roster.

I can see Holland working the phone lines now...

"Hey Gary? Mister Bettman? Boy, do I have a deal for you. I've officially decided to end our playoff streak. Yep, I'm tanking. All I need from you is Drew Doughty, Duncan Keith, and Mark Giordano, and I'll sign on the dotted line that we won't even make the playoffs.

"No, I'm serious. What do you mean, how am I sure we'll miss out? We hired Jeff Blashill, right? Yeah! That guy! So you just agree to give me those defensemen, and I'll agree to keep Jeff on as coach, and you're guaranteed somebody else gets our playoff slot! Thanks, Gary; you're the best."

Yep, I'm sure that's exactly how important coaching is versus talent, after less than 10 games of evaluation.

 

[Bench]

That is why you can't make definitive statements like "no way they can win unless they have x" with any accuracy. It just doesn't work that way and never has.

OK, so it doesn't apply to having better defenseman. Anything can happen. Does that apply to coaches, too? Or are the Wings still decades away?

Actually it was coaching.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

i agree that we are dealing with hypothetical scenario and nothing is lock but it goes both ways. Back in 2013, I think we had a good chance for reasons I stated above.

as for last season, contrary to what TZE believe, I think Wings would have won against Habs. firstly, I dont think Wings and Habs played similar style at all and if Wings made some specific adjustment against Habs, we could have neutralized most of their attack minus Subban. Also wasn't price injured in that series?

against Rangers, well, it would have been a close series.. or even if it wasn't. it would have been close games.

As for the final, who knows. Didnt really watch the final anyways.

Well you also have to keep in mind we know Z was out of gas and has said as much. Datsyuk's ankle and effectiveness were only getting worse. That was going to be a problem as we continued on.

They might have found a way, I just think that Montreal series was going to be a big problem. They both played for low scoring games and they have beat us continuously since we moved back east trying for that type of game. We were going to need to push tempo to beat them, it was going to be a tall ask. Maybe Babcock would have gotten aggressive, I just have trouble seeing it, think it would have been a lot like the Boston series. Playing for tight low scoring games when the other team has the better goalie is asking for a lot of trouble in my opinion.

 

[jkutswings]

Well you also have to keep in mind we know Z was out of gas and has said as much. Datsyuk's ankle and effectiveness were only getting worse. That was going to be a problem as we continued on.

They might have found a way, I just think that Montreal series was going to be a big problem. They both played for low scoring games and they have beat us continuously since we moved back east trying for that type of game. We were going to need to push tempo to beat them, it was going to be a tall ask. Maybe Babcock would have gotten aggressive, I just have trouble seeing it, think it would have been a lot like the Boston series. Playing for tight low scoring games when the other team has the better goalie is asking for a lot of trouble in my opinion.

Ahh, the last 5 years in a nutshell.

No offense to you, because I agree with your sentiment, but the likelihood of Mike Babcock coaching an aggressive, up-tempo hockey style is somewhere between getting struck by lightning and riding in on a chariot being pulled by The Easter Bunny and Captain Caveman.

Let the growing pains continue with Blashill, because the ceiling of Babs has come and gone.

 

[Actual Thought*]

OK, so it doesn't apply to having better defenseman. Anything can happen. Does that apply to coaches, too? Or are the Wings still decades away?

A great roster that is poorly coached has very little chance. A good roster that is superbly coached has a better chance. If Blashill is as good as Babcock we have a great shot this year. I don't believe that to be the case.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I can see Holland working the phone lines now...

"Hey Gary? Mister Bettman? Boy, do I have a deal for you. I've officially decided to end our playoff streak. Yep, I'm tanking. All I need from you is Drew Doughty, Duncan Keith, and Mark Giordano, and I'll sign on the dotted line that we won't even make the playoffs.

"No, I'm serious. What do you mean, how am I sure we'll miss out? We hired Jeff Blashill, right? Yeah! That guy! So you just agree to give me those defensemen, and I'll agree to keep Jeff on as coach, and you're guaranteed somebody else gets our playoff slot! Thanks, Gary; you're the best."

Yep, I'm sure that's exactly how important coaching is versus talent, after less than 10 games of evaluation.

What????

 

[Yemack]

Well you also have to keep in mind we know Z was out of gas and has said as much. Datsyuk's ankle and effectiveness were only getting worse. That was going to be a problem as we continued on.

They might have found a way, I just think that Montreal series was going to be a big problem. They both played for low scoring games and they have beat us continuously since we moved back east trying for that type of game. We were going to need to push tempo to beat them, it was going to be a tall ask. Maybe Babcock would have gotten aggressive, I just have trouble seeing it, think it would have been a lot like the Boston series. Playing for tight low scoring games when the other team has the better goalie is asking for a lot of trouble in my opinion.

hm yes I forgotten about euro twins factor. it's interesting that i was among the first to really call out that Z wont be effective rest of the season. Got called for it for saying unpopular opinon at times. well it's not like getting called out by random people on internet really bothers me though. Besides, I was right.

anyway getting back to habs series, I dont think being aggressive was the key really. Actually if Wings tried to be too aggressive, would have lost against them because they are prototypical counter attack team. Wings played very different style in that we were playing puck possession style. Was our attack really threatening? no. if you see alot of goals scored against Tampa, now that's what you call some fluky goals but lucky goals created by intense will. Still without price, I would give healthy chance against Habs.

Boston just killed us along the board previously and when that happend Wings flat out lost will to fight and suffered massive leadership absence since Datsyuk was practically incapacitated and Z was not there. When Z came back, he made immediate impact.. but too little too late and Wings.. kinda gave up easily against Boston. That series was really disappointing personally because it was most unred wings like loss. I dont think Wings would have suffered same problem against Montreal following year. Wings showed incredible resilience against Tampa.

 

[SoupNazi]

Actually it was coaching.

Yeah, that great coaching that refused to make adjustments after Quenneville did when we were up 3-1 and ended up losing. What fantastic strategy!

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yeah, that great coaching that refused to make adjustments after Quenneville did when we were up 3-1 and ended up losing. What fantastic strategy!

Do we blame the other for terrible coaching everytime we have turned around a 2-0 or 3-1 disadvantage in a series? No. Great teams find ways to win, Chicago's a great team and we haven't been one in about 5 seasons. It's not easier to win a game against a much better team when they are desperate.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Targeting Bieksa would be such a Kenny move. If Anaheim continues to struggle they could be willing to move Vatanen/Theodore. That would be a much better acquisition for us.

Would definitely love to have of either Vatanen/Theodore over Bieksa, Not really interested in Bieksa. But would really love one of Vatanen or Theodore definitely.

 

[Frk It]

Actually it was coaching.

I agree with you on this one. Some like to criticize him for losing a 3-1 lead. I don't, I gained a ton of respect for him for taking the Cup champs to 7 games and beating the Ducks with an absolutely atrocious d core.

That was one of Babcock's most impressive years here to me. Really restored faith and made me appreciate him.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I've come to the conclusion that we should get rid of Nyquist for a defenseman.

 

[Flowah]

Do we blame the other for terrible coaching everytime we have turned around a 2-0 or 3-1 disadvantage in a series? No. Great teams find ways to win, Chicago's a great team and we haven't been one in about 5 seasons. It's not easier to win a game against a much better team when they are desperate.

At the very least I want people to be consistent in their praise and criticism of coaches. Can't just selectively give praise and then withhold criticism because you like the coach.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I've come to the conclusion that we should get rid of Nyquist for a defenseman.

I think my preference would be to trade Tatar, but either way, I think one of them plus one of our garbage defenseman plus whatever it takes to get a deal done (picks prospects not named Mantha Larkin and Lil Bert) needs to go to acquiring a solid 1st line D or a kid that's projected (fairly safely) to be such relatively soon.

 

[Retire91]

The problem in getting a defenseman isn't the sheer uphill battle of getting a team to trade their top 4 defenseman, its the fact that Holland needs to get rid of his garbage in the process. Its a very deep hole he has dug, on one hand you have to overpay to get one of the hardest assets to find, on the other you have to overpay to send your garbage back in return. Holland has to outright win a trade something he has not done since what 2008.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

The problem in getting a defenseman isn't the sheer uphill battle of getting a team to trade their top 4 defenseman, its the fact that Holland needs to get rid of his garbage in the process. Its a very deep hole he has dug, on one hand you have to overpay to get one of the hardest assets to find, on the other you have to overpay to send your garbage back in return. Holland has to outright win a trade something he has not done since what 2008.

At the time the stuart trade wasnt really a won trade until people saw he was actually a good dman.

So what was before that?


He wins trades in the drafts almost everytime. So i really wont count those

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Yeah I know Patches was hurt, but given the fact Montreal has owned our soul and plays Babcock hockey better than anybody in the league it is hard to see them winning that series.

I would have hoped to have been wrong and kept up the good fight in terms of hey we had a chance, but that was going to be a very tough series. I think we have a much better chance this year once we evolve into a more attacking team, but time will tell. Playing Montreal on their terms is a bad idea and that is really what we were going to try to do.

Price was pretty bad. Mrazek would have won us the series.

New York would be the biggest challenge imo. Cause with the hawks we always play close.

Also below this quote regarding 13.. we probably would have won the cup that year.. Howard demolished LA (and still does) and Boston really wasn't that impressive. But that would have been a hard fought series.

 

[Retire91]

At the time the stuart trade wasnt really a won trade until people saw he was actually a good dman.

So what was before that?


He wins trades in the drafts almost everytime. So i really wont count those

His draft trades at times are good. He is good at leveraging the preperation the wings do for the draft in estimating when his players will still be available. When he trades picks for players look out though. A 1st for Quincey, 2nd for Legwand, 2nd for Cole. Ouch. Trading down doesn't always work out too
6/24/00 - Traded 2001 3rd round pick (#95/Patrick Sharp) to Nashville Predators for 2000 4th round pick (#102/Stefan Liv)

Overall just kidding Holland is an expert at the draft. Trading roster players he seems pretty over the hill. Let's see what he does about defense in the next season or two. Maybe he will surprise.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

"Probably would have won the cup" doesn't make sense when the Wings haven't managed to win more than one series over the past four years.

The jury is out on the post Lidstrom Wings.

The mental gymnastics required to think the Wings would have beaten any team if they made it past the first round is pretty extreme.

 

[Frk It]

I've come to the conclusion that we should get rid of Nyquist for a defenseman.

Definitely should get rid of our best goal scorer since 2013.

 

[PelagicJoe]

I've come to the conclusion that we should get rid of Nyquist for a defenseman.

I'd be ok with this depending on who we are getting in return. What teams have expendable defensemen and who is available ?

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Definitely should get rid of our best goal scorer since 2013.

If it meant for someone like Kevin Shattenkirk, I'd definitely do it. And I love Goose. But we have Tatar, and we have a lot of young guys coming up like Mantha, AA, and Bertuzzi.