Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

[Frk It]

If you think the defense we have seen the past six games is indicative of what to expect the rest of the season, no trade will adequately address the litany of problems it has shown.

If you think the defense will play similarly to how it performed last season, which certainly wasn't good either, but better than the past six games, the Wings would need to trade for a #2/#3 defenseman. I don't think a trade for a top four D will cut it. I think Buff would sorta fit that criteria, but I haven't seen a single Jets game this season and my opinion isn't very informed at this moment.

Other than Buff, I can't think of any targets that would qualify as a top three defenseman the Wings could realistically trade for.

Holland can't trade/sign for another stop-gap defenseman like Zidlicky or Ian White and expect it to make any difference.

He either needs to be ultra aggressive or take his tire and go home.

The situation the Wings are in sorta reminds me of the 1997 Spurs. David Robinson missed almost the entire season and that resulted in the Spurs winning the lottery that season which ended up getting them Tim Duncan. That one awful season resulted in the Spurs winning a title two years later and set them up for four more championships and potentially several more over the next decade.

If the Wings did have a terrible season, drafting in the lottery one season might be enough to set them up for the short and long term if they get lucky and draft an NHL ready defenseman who immediately improves the blue line. It's a long shot, and once Datsyuk returns, he will make the Wings too good to potentially draft in the lottery.

Any trade that brings in anything other than a top pairing RD is a waste of time. Straight up.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Any trade that brings in anything other than a top pairing RD is a waste of time. Straight up.

Holland isn't proactive in the slightest so chances of bringing in a top RHD have come and gone with him sitting on this hands. I don't see that changing. So at this point you have to take a wait and see approach - Holland's default move - to determine if Blashill is gonna cut it at the NHL level.

It's too early to say for sure but the early results are not encouraging...unless you are a perpetual sunshine blower. Not suggesting you are, just keeping it 100. If Holland sees enough to believe Blashill can turn it around then you try to fill needs.

Given how passive Holland is as GM and how overwhelmed Blashill looks it might be best to let things crater and get good draft picks. The Wings have been unbelievably bad at drafting and developing d-men, so if you can draft one in the top 5-10 it would probably improve your odds of having a #1 d-man within the next couple years when Holland will hopefully retire and the coaching situation can be resolved one way or the other.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Holland isn't proactive in the slightest so chances of bringing in a top RHD have come and gone with him sitting on this hands. I don't see that changing. So at this point you have to take a wait and see approach - Holland's default move - to determine if Blashill is gonna cut it at the NHL level.

It's too early to say for sure but the early results are not encouraging...unless you are a perpetual sunshine blower. Not suggesting you are, just keeping it 100. If Holland sees enough to believe Blashill can turn it around then you try to fill needs.

Given how passive Holland is as GM and how overwhelmed Blashill looks it might be best to let things crater and get good draft picks. The Wings have been unbelievably bad at drafting and developing d-men, so if you can draft one in the top 5-10 it would probably improve your odds of having a #1 d-man within the next couple years when Holland will hopefully retire and the coaching situation can be resolved one way or the other.

At this point I am beginning to wonder if blashill was brought in to be the scapegoat for tanking.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

At this point I am beginning to wonder if blashill was brought in to be the scapegoat for tanking.

Was signing Mike Green and Brad Richards also part of the master plan to tank?

Blashill isn't going to lose his job at the end of this season, no matter what.

 

[Retire91]

Yeah if Columbus is offering something around Atkinson+ for Larsson then Ken Holland definitely needs to be on the phone with the Devils GM and see what we need to offer to make a deal.

I am not holding my breath. Dougie Hamilton moved right under Holland's nose for a 2015 first round pick (No. 15 overall) and two 2015 second round picks (No. 45 and 52). Absolute steal and not a peep about Holland being in on that.

 

[odin1981]

I am not holding my breath. Dougie Hamilton moved right under Holland's nose for a 2015 first round pick (No. 15 overall) and two 2015 second round picks (No. 45 and 52). Absolute steal and not a peep about Holland being in on that.

Have you seen how much he sucks bad this year? If anything that could be a good trade for Boston because Chara isn't exactly Chara prime anymore and to keep him off the radar they got 3 assets for him.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I am not holding my breath. Dougie Hamilton moved right under Holland's nose for a 2015 first round pick (No. 15 overall) and two 2015 second round picks (No. 45 and 52). Absolute steal and not a peep about Holland being in on that.

1) Interdivision trade would cost more
2) If Hamilton was enough of a potential headache for Boston to give him up for so little, I wouldn't want him. His contract demands weren't out of hand if his Calgary contract can be assumed to be his value.

 

[The Zermanator]

Any trade that brings in anything other than a top pairing RD is a waste of time. Straight up.

That would revolutionize this team. What is Holland doing? That's his job. To build a team, which is a never-ending process, and identify then correct weaknesses. I seriously think we're that one top 2 dman away from being a serious contender. Do your damn job!

Mrazek's looked solid, despite the garbage fire in front of him the past several games. May soon be time to consider moving Jimmy. He's played well too for the most part and hopefully he can raise his trade value. Would like too give it some time to see if Mrazek's consistency has improved before trading Howard, however.

Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Helm, Jurco, Ouellet, Marchenko, Quincey, Smith (good luck) and Pulkkinen are all guys I'd be willing to move for that dman. If he's good enough, Mantha, Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, Saarijarvi, 1st rounders, etc. are also on the table.

Larkin, DeKeyser and Mrazek are pretty much the only untouchables as far as I'm concerned (apart from the obvious ones, 13/40/55).

EDIT: Add Svechnikov to list of moveable assets.

 

[Pavels Dog]

That would revolutionize this team. What is Holland doing? That's his job. To build a team, which is a never-ending process, and identify then correct weaknesses. I seriously think we're that one top 2 dman away from being a serious contender. Do your damn job!

Mrazek's looked solid, despite the garbage fire in front of him the past several games. May soon be time to consider moving Jimmy. He's played well too for the most part and hopefully he can raise his trade value. Would like too give it some time to see if Mrazek's consistency has improved before trading Howard, however.

Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Helm, Jurco, Ouellet, Marchenko, Quincey, Smith (good luck) and Pulkkinen are all guys I'd be willing to move for that dman. If he's good enough, Mantha, Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, Saarijarvi, 1st rounders, etc. are also on the table.

Larkin, DeKeyser and Mrazek are pretty much the only untouchables as far as I'm concerned (apart from the obvious ones, 13/40/55).

Pretty sure there were rumors for a long time that he was after Myers. Easy to say he failed by not getting it done, but what if it cost us Larkin?

Fact is few teams are ever willing to move the type of d-man we need unless they're getting a Larkin, Dekeyser or Mrazek in return. All the bolded have VERY limited value in the type of blockbuster-trade we are looking for.

 

[Winger98]

Pretty sure there were rumors for a long time that he was after Myers. Easy to say he failed by not getting it done, but what if it cost us Larkin?

Fact is few teams are ever willing to move the type of d-man we need unless they're getting a Larkin, Dekeyser or Mrazek in return. All the bolded have VERY limited value in the type of blockbuster-trade we are looking for.

Sad but true. I think the vets in that list (Quincey, Helm, Smith to a lesser extent) would have more value if we dealt them off separately as deadline deals rather than trying to package them. With the cost of trades, we might be able to pulll a late first for at least one of them, and that we could include in a larger trade later on.

 

[The Zermanator]

Pretty sure there were rumors for a long time that he was after Myers. Easy to say he failed by not getting it done, but what if it cost us Larkin?

Fact is few teams are ever willing to move the type of d-man we need unless they're getting a Larkin, Dekeyser or Mrazek in return. All the bolded have VERY limited value in the type of blockbuster-trade we are looking for.

Easy to dismiss when you exclude the best players from that list, though. Will anyone give us a top dman for Pulkkinen and a pick? Obviously not. Tatar + Pulkkinen + Ouellet + 2 1st rd picks? Any GM would be a fool not to consider that. Hefty price, but we can afford to overpay.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Easy to dismiss when you exclude the best players from that list, though. Will anyone give us a top dman for Pulkkinen and a pick? Obviously not. Tatar + Pulkkinen + Ouellet + 2 1st rd picks? Any GM would be a fool not to consider that. Hefty price, but we can afford to overpay.

No, what I said was the bolded had very limited value, I didn't 'exclude' anyone. That package is basically Tatar+1st+1st+[scraps we throw in if it gets a deal done].

And I mean, sure that's a nice package. But if you are Ottawa's GM, are you a fool to not consider that deal for Erik Karlsson? Or Arizona for OEL? Washington for Carlson?

How many teams want to give up their young top pairing d-men for a scoring winger and prospects/picks? I'm 100% sure that I would rather have poor wingers than a poor defense, and I think 30 out of 30 GMs agree with me.

 

[The Zermanator]

No, what I said was the bolded had very limited value, I didn't 'exclude' anyone. That package is basically Tatar+1st+1st+[scraps we throw in if it gets a deal done].

And I mean, sure that's a nice package. But if you are Ottawa's GM, are you a fool to not consider that deal for Erik Karlsson? Or Arizona for OEL? Washington for Carlson?

How many teams want to give up their young top pairing d-men for a scoring winger and prospects/picks? I'm 100% sure that I would rather have poor wingers than a poor defense, and I think 30 out of 30 GMs agree with me.

You're underestimating their value, I think. They may not have high value, but they are good complementary pieces in a trade. Especially considering the other team would be receiving an NHL ready player who's benefitted from years in Detroit's development system.

And where did I, or anyone else, suggest going after Karlsson, etc.? We don't need a top 5 dman, just a top 30. Difference in price of acquisition is huge between the two.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Pretty sure there were rumors for a long time that he was after Myers. Easy to say he failed by not getting it done, but what if it cost us Larkin?

Nah, the rumored asking price was Mantha + our first round pick. Here is the link with a quote from Bob McKenzie:

McKenzie also noted that the Sabres wanted top prospect Anthony Mantha or Gustav Nyquist in return for Myers in discussions last year. Those were non-starters for the Red Wings according to the report, but Detroit's pro scouts will continue watching Myers.

So all it would have cost was Mantha. Everyone was gung ho on Mantha being awesome and thought Myers suddenly forgot how to play hockey. Holland is king of kicking the tires, surprised he didn't at least kick the tires on a Hamilton trade. He got caught sleeping on that one, like Brent Burns.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Nah, the rumored asking price was Mantha + our first round pick. Everyone was gung ho on Mantha being awesome and thought Myers suddenly forgot how to play hockey. Holland is king of kicking the tires, surprised he didn't at least kick the tires on a Hamilton trade. He got caught sleeping on that one, like Brent Burns.

Me thinks about 28 other teams were sleeping on that one too.

 

[Pavels Dog]

And where did I, or anyone else, suggest going after Karlsson, etc.? We don't need a top 5 dman, just a top 30. Difference in price of acquisition is huge between the two.

Well you did say 'any GM'... but by all means give some suggestions of players, I keep waiting for someone to come up with realistic names we could trade for.

Nah, the rumored asking price was Mantha + our first round pick. Everyone was gung ho on Mantha being awesome and thought Myers suddenly forgot how to play hockey. Holland is king of kicking the tires, surprised he didn't at least kick the tires on a Hamilton trade. He got caught sleeping on that one, like Brent Burns.

I seem to recall rumors of Larkin being asked for by Buffalo. But you may be right. Mantha + our 1st basically means Mantha+Svechnikov though. I know some people would do it in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't do it for someone like Myers.

 

[SoupNazi]

Nah, the rumored asking price was Mantha + our first round pick. Everyone was gung ho on Mantha being awesome and thought Myers suddenly forgot how to play hockey. Holland is king of kicking the tires, surprised he didn't at least kick the tires on a Hamilton trade. He got caught sleeping on that one, like Brent Burns.

Nah, it was rumored they wanted Larkin +.

 

[The Zermanator]

Well you did say 'any GM'... but by all means give some suggestions of players, I keep waiting for someone to come up with realistic names we could trade for.

Yes, and GMs have more than one player. Vatanen, Shattenkirk, Byfuglien, Larsson, Edler, Hamhuis...

I want Byfuglien. He's big and mean, and we need that. He will clear the front of our net like nobody's business, we need that. He has a booming RH shot, we need that. He will put up points, we need that. He's a very passionate player, we need that. Love Zetterberg and Co., but our team has a tendency to be WAY too passive and lifeless at times. He's also anomalously athletic for his size so I'm not worried about him hitting a wall anytime soon and declining majorly. Too many reasons not to pursue. Winnipeg has Trouba and Myers for their top 4's right side.

Tatar, Pulkkinen, Ouellet, for a Byfuglien sign and trade. How do they say no to that? Pay him what he's worth, completely changes our team.

Here's our team in that scenario:

Larkin-Zetterberg-Abdelkader
Helm-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Richards-Sheahan-Jurco
Miller-Glendening-Ferraro
Andersson

Kronwall-Byfuglien
DeKeyser-Green
Ericsson-Quincey
Kindl/Smith

Mrazek
Howard

We lose a valuable piece in Tatar but get another in return with Byfuglien. We lose Ouellet and Pulkkinen in the deal. We have depth, and we overpay. Sure, it looks great from a Winnipeg perspective. But it makes us a better team, bottom line. In the grand scheme of things, Byfuglien helps our team much more than those three players. We have the depth to absorb those losses, but we'd be gaining something we have no internal solution for. This is your job, Kenny. Get on the f@#$*%g phone.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yes, and GMs have more than one player. Vatanen, Shattenkirk, Byfuglien, Larsson, Edler, Hamhuis...

And there's pretty much no way we're getting any of those players other than possibly Vatanen or Hamhuis who aren't really the top-pairing upgrade we are looking for.

 

[The Zermanator]

And there's pretty much no way we're getting any of those players other than possibly Vatanen or Hamhuis who aren't really the top-pairing upgrade we are looking for.

Edited my post since you wrote this. Just about any player is available, it's just a matter of price. We offer Larkin, Mantha, Svechnikov, Mrazek, Nyquist, and DeKeyser for any player in the league and we get that player. Obviously a ludicrous proposition but it's just an extreme example to illustrate that anybody is available as long as you're willing to pay the price.

And I can't imagine Byfuglien couldn't be had for the right price (which we can afford). And St Louis will have some tough decisions cap-wise in the next few years. With Pietrangelo and Parayko they may have to move him.

 

[Mister Ed]

Not right now, as the season is still young, but sometim before the Christmas Holidays, there needs to be an evaluation of team's identity. Long story short, it might be time to change up some of the personnel, sending 2-3 players somewhere for 2-3 new players and change the room up a little bit, especially the D.

Basically, I want Ericsson gone.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Edited my post since you wrote this. Just about any player is available, it's just a matter of price. We offer Larkin, Mantha, Svechnikov, Mrazek, Nyquist, and DeKeyser for any player in the league and we get that player. Obviously a ludicrous proposition but it's just an extreme example to illustrate that anybody is available as long as you're willing to pay the price.

And I can't imagine Byfuglien couldn't be had for the right price (which we can afford). And St Louis will have some tough decisions cap-wise in the next few years. With Pietrangelo and Parayko they may have to move him.

Well just take your Byfuglien/Shattenkirk proposals to the trade board and hear what fans of the other teams think.

Earliest I can see Buff being available for something that doesn't include Larkin is at the deadline if Winnipeg looks like they'll miss the playoffs. Shattenkirk may be dangled during next summer and will be expensive as hell.

 

[Frk It]

And there's pretty much no way we're getting any of those players other than possibly Vatanen or Hamhuis who aren't really the top-pairing upgrade we are looking for.

Yeah, well HF users also habitually overestimate the value of trade proposals for guys like Byfuglien. Especially fans of the established player being traded.

I think Zermanator is really close to realistic value. I also think Holland does not want to part with either Tatar, Nyquist, or Larkin.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Yes, and GMs have more than one player. Vatanen, Shattenkirk, Byfuglien, Larsson, Edler, Hamhuis...

I want Byfuglien. He's big and mean, and we need that. He will clear the front of our net like nobody's business, we need that. He has a booming RH shot, we need that. He will put up points, we need that. He's a very passionate player, we need that. Love Zetterberg and Co., but our team has a tendency to be WAY too passive and lifeless at times. He's also anomalously athletic for his size so I'm not worried about him hitting a wall anytime soon and declining majorly. Too many reasons not to pursue. Winnipeg has Trouba and Myers for their top 4's right side.

Tatar, Pulkkinen, Ouellet, for a Byfuglien sign and trade. How do they say no to that? Pay him what he's worth, completely changes our team.

Here's our team in that scenario:

Larkin-Zetterberg-Abdelkader
Helm-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Richards-Sheahan-Jurco
Miller-Glendening-Ferraro
Andersson

Kronwall-Byfuglien
DeKeyser-Green
Ericsson-Quincey
Kindl/Smith

Mrazek
Howard

We lose a valuable piece in Tatar but get another in return with Byfuglien. We lose Ouellet and Pulkkinen in the deal. We have depth, and we overpay. Sure, it looks great from a Winnipeg perspective. But it makes us a better team, bottom line. In the grand scheme of things, Byfuglien helps our team much more than those three players. We have the depth to absorb those losses, but we'd be gaining something we have no internal solution for. This is your job, Kenny. Get on the f@#$*%g phone.

I wouldn't come remotely close to paying that for Buff. You and I definitely don't see him as the same player. I wouldn't say that he is mean or a great crease clearer. He throws out the occasional big hit but you say we need his passion when Buff often goes invisible, certainly more than Zetterberg. Buff is what he is, a top offensive Dman that is big, plays ok defense for a top 4 guy, and throws an occasional big hit.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I wouldn't come remotely close to paying that for Buff. You and I definitely don't see him as the same player. I wouldn't say that he is mean or a great crease clearer. He throws out the occasional big hit but you say we need his passion when Buff often goes invisible, certainly more than Zetterberg. Buff is what he is, a top offensive Dman that is big, plays ok defense for a top 4 guy, and throws an occasional big hit.

You are underselling Big Buff, but that package is way too much for a rental