Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: I can't believe it's not butter, I can't believe we didn't get Ryan Hartman.

[BigRangy]

The only two things that absolutely 100% need to happen this offseason are turfing Cameron and firing Brouwer into the sun

While another year of GG almost definitely won't be good, he did get this group into the playoffs with a much worse roster than he has available to him now.

However, Cameron is beyond useless, and Brouwer is probably going to go down as my least favourite player of all time. He gets his nice retirement contract, all the special teams time in the world, an A on his jersey, and he rewards his teammates with the most non-effort, zero-emotion, no-passion hockey I've ever seen.

I truly think that 80% of this team's issues come down solely on these two.

Can't wait for their time to be up.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Except it doesn't help our most glaring need which is a top six forward.

A 1st is nice, but this team needs help now, while we have guys in their primes or on better deals than they will get latter. A 1st could take years to turn into something, or it might never.

Besides it's a low pick in the 1st round. I'd trade Brodie for a top 10 pick a top 6 RHS winger prospect if Wahlstrom is still available though.

 

[Lunatik]

You may have expected a better response, doesn't make it wrong. A magic bean isn't worth giving up on two significant pieces for. That magic bean (could easily be a pick in the 20s) may turn out as good as Kylington. Come talk to me if that's a top ten pick.

If the goal is to have enough cap space for Tavares, there are smarter ways to do it. If the cap goes up as rumoured, offering him league max is within the realm of possibility, even if it's a dumb idea.

Two significant pieces? LMFAO. Frolik is a decent p[layer, but "significant piece" is a stretch. Calling Kylington a "significant piece" is just crazy talk

 

[Flameshomer]

I did a work up on that other place about pitching Tavares McDavid level money:

Next season:
Tkachuk (.925)- Tavares (12.5)- Bennett (1.95)
Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.375) - Ferland (1.75)
Lazar (.950) - Backlund (5.35) - Frolik (4.3)
Hathaway (.650) - Jankowski (1.5) - Brouwer (4.5)

(extra forward ~ .650)
48.45 million for forwards

Giordano (6.75)- Hamilton (5.75)
Brodie (4.650)- Hamonic (3.857)
Kulak (1) - Andersson (.755)
(extra d ~.650)
23.412 Million for D

Mike Smith ( 4.25)
Rittich (1)
5.25 million for G

Cap: 78 Mil
Buyouts: 904,167
Committed: 76.812
Total:77,716,167
Remaining: -283,833

2 seasons out (estimating cap at 80 mil, with a brouwer buyout instead of a trade):

Tkachuk (6.5)- Tavares (12.5)- Bennett (4)
Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.375) - Ferland (3)
Lazar (.950) - Backlund (5.35) - Frolik (4.3)
Hathaway (.650) - Jankowski (1.5) - Mangiapane (.705)

(extra forward ~ .650)
53.23 million for forwards

Giordano (6.75)- Hamilton (5.75)
Valimaki (.925)- Hamonic (3.857)
Kylington (.730) - Andersson (.755)
(extra d ~.650)
19.417 Million for D

Mike Smith ( 4.25) (THESE ARE PLACEHOLDERS because i don't want to speculate about goalie futures)
Rittich (1)
5.25 million for G

Cap: 80
Buyouts: 1.5 Mil (2 years)
Committed: 77.897
Total:79,397,000
Remaining: - 603,000

All it would really take is not resigning Stajan, getting rid of Stone without taking salary back, and not paying versteeg to fit him in next season. When Tkachuk and Bennett are up it becomes more difficult, but i factored in a Brouwer buyout and getting rid of Brodie year 2 and we can make it work (Tkachuk gets a raise to 6.5 million and Bennett gets 4)

 

[Flameshomer]

Two significant pieces? LMFAO. Frolik is a decent p[layer, but "significant piece" is a stretch. Calling Kylington a "significant piece" is just crazy talk

Frolik is very much an expendable piece, not a significant one. Kylington is worth more to us than to anyone else, so I don't see a point in trying to trade him.

Brodie is the piece of significance that we can give up. Even in a tavares deal we don't have to do that yet though.

 

[Mobiandi]

I suspect we'll see retention in a Flames deal for the first time in ever(?) if Stone gets traded. No one's taking on a bottom pairing Dman at 3.5m AAV. I think it'll be something like 33% retained for a 3rd and 4th

 

[Flameshomer]

I suspect we'll see retention in a Flames deal for the first time in ever(?) if Stone gets traded. No one's taking on a bottom pairing Dman at 3.5m AAV. I think it'll be something like 33% retained for a 3rd and 4th

Why not just ask for less (i.e A 7th) but not retain? I think someone would take him if the cost was absolutely minimal. 3.5 isn't a killer contract.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I’m glad to see most have come around on Frolik. He’s a very good player, highly intelligent, good skater, but he’s not some untouchable piece on this roster. I suggested moving him earlier in the year to free up salary because Brouwer can’t be moved, most blasted me for it. But the fact is, it might have to be a reality. I also think Frolik will bounce back a little next year and I think he would look better in a different system that allows him to be a little more creative.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I’m glad to see most have come around on Frolik. He’s a very good player, highly intelligent, good skater, but he’s not some untouchable piece on this roster. I suggested moving him earlier in the year to free up salary because Brouwer can’t be moved, most blasted me for it. But the fact is, it might have to be a reality. I also think Frolik will bounce back a little next year and I think he would look better in a different system that allows him to be a little more creative.

Sadly, still one of (if not our best) right wingers. The only reason he's more or less "untouchable" (and "significant") is because trading him puts a space shuttle sized hole in the roster unless he's being moved for an upgrade, not a draft pick.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Two significant pieces? LMFAO. Frolik is a decent p[layer, but "significant piece" is a stretch. Calling Kylington a "significant piece" is just crazy talk

Hey, he's significant to me dammit. Plus, I hear he personally hand-carved all of the bobbleheads for Oliver Kylington Bobblehead night.

He's also (quite likely) a better option than the magic bean around pick #22.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Sadly, still one of (if not our best) right wingers. The only reason he's more or less "untouchable" (and "significant") is because trading him puts a space shuttle sized hole in the roster unless he's being moved for an upgrade, not a draft pick.

I don’t disagree at all, but it’s about cap flexibility. Are we better off keeping Frolik on the 3rd and Brouwer in the press box? Or dealing Frolik for some futures and using that cap space to sign James Neal, JVR or Kane and playing Brouwer on the 3rd in his spot?

For my money, getting a new coach that can adapt his system to a players strengths, I think you can gain more offence by dealing Frolik, playing Brouwer on the 3rd in a new system and add a scoring winger.

I have no problems at all with a Frolik as a player, the problem is Brouwer’s cap. And with every cap system there are casualties.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I suspect we'll see retention in a Flames deal for the first time in ever(?) if Stone gets traded. No one's taking on a bottom pairing Dman at 3.5m AAV. I think it'll be something like 33% retained for a 3rd and 4th

Look at Buffalo. They absolutely could use someone like Mike Stone. He’s still a solid player. 2 years isn’t very risky for teams.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I don’t disagree at all, but it’s about cap flexibility. Are we better off keeping Frolik on the 3rd and Brouwer in the press box? Or dealing Frolik for some futures and using that cap space to sign James Neal, JVR or Kane and playing Brouwer on the 3rd in his spot?

For my money, getting a new coach that can adapt his system to a players strengths, I think you can gain more offence by dealing Frolik, playing Brouwer on the 3rd in a new system and add a scoring winger.

I have no problems at all with a Frolik as a player, the problem is Brouwer’s cap. And with every cap system there are casualties.

Then you trade from a position of strength, and deal Stone. And buy out Brouwer's contract in its final year. Hell buy it out this June, and its only $1.5m for four years (adds another $3m).

That should leave around $9 million in space, after RFAs are signed - more if the cap goes up.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Then you trade from a position of strength, and deal Stone. And buy out Brouwer's contract in its final year. Hell buy it out this June, and its only $1.5m for four years (adds another $3m).

That should leave around $9 million in space, after RFAs are signed - more if the cap goes up.

I’d be open to that, it depends on the return though. I think Frolik has actual value whereas Stone would be more of a dump. Honestly I’d deal both if we could.

 

[Calculon]

Good chance actual GM's value Stone more than trade board posters but his lackluster numbers this year aren't going to do him any favours value wise. It's not unlikely that more than a few GM's that need defensive help and/or a bomb for their powerplay see Stone as someone locked in to a reasonable cap hit for a reasonable length of time who could perhaps produce a little more in an expanded role, like he was with the Coyotes. But they just won't pay much for that service; a couple of mid round picks is probably the best case scenario.

Also, the Flames have more than enough cap space to keep Frolik and sign one of JVR/Kane/Perron/Neal, etc. Brouwer on any other line than the fourth is scary.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think Stone can be dealt, I just don’t think he has much value. Big defender, RHS, fairly physical, he’s got a nice package, he just offers very little upside and I don’t think it helped that he’s been pairied with Kulak all season. The season before when he played with Brodie, I think he showed what he was capable of. But I don’t see many GM’s who are willing to offer much of value and take his salary off our hands, if they do we won’t get much in return and might even have to take salary back.

Anyways playing Andersson next season would be a boost to our lineup.

 

[DFF]

I think Stone can be dealt, I just don’t think he has much value. Big defender, RHS, fairly physical, he’s got a nice package, he just offers very little upside and I don’t think it helped that he’s been pairied with Kulak all season. The season before when he played with Brodie, I think he showed what he was capable of. But I don’t see many GM’s who are willing to offer much of value and take his salary off our hands, if they do we won’t get much in return and might even have to take salary back.

.

Not too long ago, some guy paid a couple draft picks for him and he even made more back then

 

[InfinityIggy]

Other teams would have interest in Stone I think, but I can’t see him returning anything of real significance. I think at best maybe a young forward needing a change of scenery or a mid round pick.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Other teams would have interest in Stone I think, but I can’t see him returning anything of real significance. I think at best maybe a young forward needing a change of scenery or a mid round pick.

Except cap space - the only reason to trade him to begin with.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Except cap space - the only reason to trade him to begin with.

Yes of course, that’d be the incentive for us to move him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Would love to somehow get Boone Jenner.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Would love to somehow get Boone Jenner.

Not sure where he would fit in the lineup though. Plays and shoots on the left side.

 

[Calculon]

Main reason to trade Stone is not really cap space; Flames have plenty. It's to get Andersson into the lineup permanently, which is where he clearly belongs.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Main reason to trade Stone is not really cap space; Flames have plenty. It's to get Andersson into the lineup permanently, which is where he clearly belongs.

I would say it’s both. The cap space would allow us to fill more holes.

 

[BigRangy]

Tkachuk-Tavares-Neal
Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Jankowski-Backlund-Frolik
Bennett-Shore-Lazar
Stewart, Stajan

Gio-Andersson
Kulak-Doug
Brodie-Hamonic
Not Bartkowski

Do it Brad