Are you feeling more or less optimistic about the leafs future since Dubas took over?

[Crosscrease14]

I love that in a thread about ones confidence level in Dubas body of work discussion since taking over, that so many of his moves end with "even though it didn't work out" as the conclusion, that it doesn't change some peoples impression that everything is going great, except for all the missteps and bad endings.

I like Dubas because he isn't afraid to think outside the box and take calculated risks. He doesn't control the deck just how he plays the hand.

 

[Crosscrease14]

Yep agreed.
I guess people will hear what they like depending on what side their agenda falls on.
Those of us with no agenda fall in the middle somewhere.
Think Ceci will be re-signed?

If he is willing to take a big discount, yes. More likely he's offered a couple million as depth somewhere else. I think one of Dermott/Lehtonen/Liljegren will take that spot next year.

 

[stickty111]

Yeah rather have Dubas.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yeah rather have Dubas.

It would be hard to find a GM I wouldn't take over Lou. It does get overlooked that Dubas had to clean up a bit when he took over

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You're trying to compare 2 months of a guy who couldn't cut it at 4C vs 1.5 years and 2 playoff runs with a legit #2/3 D.

Lou spent back to back 2nds trying to fix the 4C problem TWICE. Spending a 2nd on a 4C should get you a young long-term solution, not a guy who cant cut it in the Czech league 6 months after you buy him.

Spend picks if it's going to improve an important (not 4C) part of your team long-term (not 2 months and then spend more picks fixing the exact same hole for another 2 months). It doesn't help that Dubas solved the 4C issue by spending league minimum on Spezza.

Just to confirm though, you're saying you'd rather have 2 months of Plekanec over drafting Robertson right?

I'm saying I'd rather have a good team than good prospects and I'd trade Robertson tomorrow if it madethe team better because ass of now he's done nothing.

Would I do it for Plekanec? No because Robertson could get you a better player butt this idea that it was a bad trade is ridiculous if you ca mmove a 2nd round pick to fill a hole you do it.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I'm saying I'd rather have a good team than good prospects and I'd trade Robertson tomorrow if it madethe team better because ass of now he's done nothing.

Would I do it for Plekanec? No because Robertson could get you a better player butt this idea that it was a bad trade is ridiculous if you ca mmove a 2nd round pick to fill a hole you do it.

But he didn't even fill the hole, Plekanec was quite literally AHL tier for us. Even if he was good, we only got 2 months out of him and had the exact same hole to fill. It was bad value regardless of how blind you want to be to the value of having picks to work with.

It's like saying food is more important to have than cash, but you only buy McDonalds every day instead of spending the same money to buy groceries for a week.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Cambell so far would suggest otherwise.

I think a legit criticsm of him was not acting sooner to fix the backup situation, BUT there are other factors beyond his goalie evaluation that impact it - namely the trade market.

Edit: typo

Does it suggest otherwise though? or did he throw enough shit at the wall that eventually something appears to have stuck? Because he had 3 spectacular failures each worse than the last before he got to Campbell.




Dubass is good at signingg free agents, making trades, loooks to be good at drafting but he doesn't know how to evaluate goaltending

 

[Golden_Jet]

It would be hard to find a GM I wouldn't take over Lou. It does get overlooked that Dubas had to clean up a bit when he took over

Ya every New GM has a cleanup to do when hired.

 

[Bomber0104]

It would be hard to find a GM I wouldn't take over Lou. It does get overlooked that Dubas had to clean up a bit when he took over

"Cleaning up" a franchise-record 105 point team.

It's hilarious because you're actually serious about this too

 

[Morbo]

heh. it's funny that you can pick both options

 

[Morbo]

We have to remain positive here and embrace the fact and trust in the belief that Dubas has a keen eye for talent evaluation ...

Last summer remember he brought in Teemu Kivihalme as well as Kevin Gravel, Jordan Schmaltz, Ben Harpur to shore up the defense. The year previously we got Igor Ozhiganov, Calle Rosen, Andreas Borgman etc. All sorts of fan optimism existed in some form or another as they we're being penciled into Dubas' Leafs future starting line-ups.

please...can you TRY to be a little bit honest?

 

[Menzinger]

It seems like for many, Babcock had more of an influence on their perception of the importance of handedness than they'd like to admit. This was never a concern before him, and this is rarely ever a significant concern for other teams.

Would I like proper handedness? Sure. But you don't blow up a team because some guy who is comfortable playing on his off side has to play on his off side.

Interestingly, didnt both Sandin AND Dermott play a bit on the right side under Keefe with the Marlies?

 

[Bomber0104]

Interestingly, didnt both Sandin AND Dermott play a bit on the right side under Keefe with the Marlies?

And Garrett Sparks was a star goalie.

 

[DatSnipeMatthews]

Yikes !!!! ... Due to both the Leafs salary cap management and failed attempts to improve the RHD position both Barrie and Ceci are going to walk as UFA.

That leaves Justin Holl a 28 year old journeyman Dman as Leafs only and best right hand dman standing for next year.

Leafs are hoping a previously undrafted 26 year old Mikko Lehtonen who has never played a minute in the NHL can immediately jump in and play a top 4 role. We have to hope this turns out better than the Igor Ozhiganov former KHL experiment did, because you never know how these "free wallets" will turn out. If it doesn't work out however no big deal as he will be turning 27 and be a UFA at seasons end. However we're asking a LHD to switch sides and hit the ground running as a Top 4 Dman playing 20 minutes a night against top line opposition players.

That leaves youngster Liljegren who has 11 NHL games experience as the only right side Dman on the Leafs depth chart.

The LHD will have Rielly, Muzzin and youngster Sandin with unsigned RFA Dermott with Marincin and Rosen as spares.

Our Leafs already surrendered the 5th most goals against this year, and that was with NHLer's Barrie and Ceci, and now we're hoping "addition by subtraction" somehow the Leafs defense gets better next year.

We're seriously suppose to be optimistic about Leafs future going forward and being serious Cup contenders with a right side Defense of Holl, Lehtonen and Liljegren, that is closer to a Marlies AHL quality defense than NHL one?

My goodness gracious thank you for some insight in this thread. I was a little hesitant about some of your negative views about drafting Marner way back in 2015 (It took me until this year to agree with you), and about some of your more negative views about Dubas, But now I see why you chose to be hesitant. And I was also a little surprised by your defense of Babcock (not extreme defense but you did defend him more than others). But now I completely see where you have come from all these years.

As for the defence, you are completely correct! We have wasted cap, and went the route of short term success and Dubas has left us with no other options moving forward. Our current best right-D is Holl. That is more than concerning. Do people actually think we can be cup contenders with Holl as our top Right D?

 

[hotpaws]

please...can you TRY to be a little bit honest?

can you ? lol

sure , the Dube signed all those D expecting them to be failures , why else would he sign them , lol

 

[Morbo]

can you ? lol

sure , the Dube signed all those D expecting them to be failures , why else would he sign them , lol

sorry but there was not a great deal of enthusiasm about Kevin Gravel and Ben Harpur being in the future starting lineup.

there's no need to lie.

 

[Menzinger]

sorry but there was not a great deal of enthusiasm about Kevin Gravel and Ben Harpur being in the future starting lineup.

Yeah, none of those guys got even a fraction of the media coverage that Lehtonen did during their signings.

Guys like Harper were signed to gave a chance at being a depth NHLer and a likely Marlie. Which is exactly what happened.

 

[All Mod Cons]

And Garrett Sparks was a star goalie.

And Jeremy Bracco was the best player by a country mile

 

[hotpaws]

sorry but there was not a great deal of enthusiasm about Kevin Gravel and Ben Harpur being in the future starting lineup.

there's no need to lie.

there was varying degrees of enthusiasm for the 6 D Mess mentioned especially for Kivihalme to be in the lineup but since they all proved to be useless your spin now is no one expected them to be Leafs and you've gone on to pimp the most recent shiny new toy

 

[Bomber0104]

And Jeremy Bracco was the best player by a country mile

You're catching on quick!

 

[Bomber0104]

Yeah, none of those guys got even a fraction of the media coverage that Lehtonen did during their signings.

Guys like Harper were signed to gave a chance at being a depth NHLer and a likely Marlie. Which is exactly what happened.

I too think we should judge a player's ability to translate from the KHL to the NHL based on the amount of Toronto media coverage they receive.

 

[Menzinger]

I too think we should judge a player's ability to translate from the KHL to the NHL based on the amount of Toronto media coverage they receive.

Hes gotten more attention beacuse hes viewed by the hockey world as a better player than some others mentioned in this thread.

If you personally think hes on the same level as say a guy like Harpur, was viewed fair enough, but youd be in a minority opinion

 

[Morbo]

there was varying degrees of enthusiasm for the 6 D Mess mentioned especially for Kivihalme to be in the lineup but since they all proved to be useless your spin now is no one expected them to be Leafs and you've gone on to pimp the most recent shiny new toy

no spin on my part.

I corrected the spin, as always.

 

[Bomber0104]

Hes gotten more attention beacuse hes viewed by the hockey world as a better player than some others mentioned in this thread.

If you personally think hes on the same level as say a guy like Harpur, was viewed fair enough, but youd be in a minority opinion

What about someone like Rosen or better yet Ozhiganov?

Want to compare how many headlines they got from the illustrious Toronto media?

 

[Martin Skoula]

there was varying degrees of enthusiasm for the 6 D Mess mentioned especially for Kivihalme to be in the lineup but since they all proved to be useless your spin now is no one expected them to be Leafs and you've gone on to pimp the most recent shiny new toy

Man Dubas is so stupid for signing some 700k defensemen to fill out the Marlies when we had Sandin, Liljegren, and Holl fighting for spots on the roster. It costs us nothing and you'd be the first one having a meltdown if someone else signed Lehtonen and he went on to be a passable #4.

At least we've moved on from complaining about the backup goalie and losing the great Par Lindholm to complaining about a 700k injury fill-in on defense.