Are you disappointed that they are sticking with the core?

[Blowfish]

I doubt it. You'll have your usual suspects cheering on this team no matter what and telling everyone how great they are. But I get the feeling this most recent loss to Montreal was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people. People are fed up with this organization and it's ineptitude, a few meaningless regular season victories isn't gonna make that go away.

Good post. The right thing to do is remove Dubas now and make some changes to make this team playoff competitive.

 

[Al14]

Marner has to GO !!! Overpaid and under performs when needed the most. Greedy little puke is greedy. Get him and his father away from this team!

 

[Captain Crunch]

So, Tampa legit had regression with that same core, going from the finals to the eastern conference finals to missing the playoffs and then back to the conference finals and then got swept in the first round.

The only narrative people are comparing when it comes to Toronto and Tampa is every year that Tampa had disappointing seasons, they didn't trade there talented core because of a disappointing season. They continued to try and build around them and try to win the cup. That's what fans are trying to say about this team, and I understand they haven't won a series but I don't buy because you won a few rounds your season was successful, go listen to the Vegas presser with Lehner after losing to MTL and listen to him say anytime you don't win the Stanley Cup you have failed.

Toronto could make it to the conference finals and lose next season and we would all be sitting here not happy trying to trade one of the core members for the hell of it. I'll keep saying anytime you don't win the cup in general the season was a failure, winning a couple of rounds doesn't make your season successful but that doesn't mean you go out and trade the talent you have because you are "disappointed" you keep trying to build around the core and win, whether thats by drafting a gem or signing / trading for players to fill around the talent of your team. Exactly what Tampa did

But you have to admit there is a difference between being successful and showing improvement. For the past two *playoffs (remember last season was a play-in), this team has choked when it mattered the most. I guess we can hope for 3rd time’s a charm.

 

[socko]

Marner has to GO !!! Overpaid and under performs when needed the most. Greedy little puke is greedy. Get him and his father away from this team!

It's too bad the NHL doesn't have a team in Oymyakon, Russia we could trade him to.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Two expensive wingers is too much. No money for D, goalie.

 

[Stephen]

So, Tampa legit had regression with that same core, going from the finals to the eastern conference finals to missing the playoffs and then back to the conference finals and then got swept in the first round.

The only narrative people are comparing when it comes to Toronto and Tampa is every year that Tampa had disappointing seasons, they didn't trade there talented core because of a disappointing season. They continued to try and build around them and try to win the cup. That's what fans are trying to say about this team, and I understand they haven't won a series but I don't buy because you won a few rounds your season was successful, go listen to the Vegas presser with Lehner after losing to MTL and listen to him say anytime you don't win the Stanley Cup you have failed.

Toronto could make it to the conference finals and lose next season and we would all be sitting here not happy trying to trade one of the core members for the hell of it. I'll keep saying anytime you don't win the cup in general the season was a failure, winning a couple of rounds doesn't make your season successful but that doesn't mean you go out and trade the talent you have because you are "disappointed" you keep trying to build around the core and win, whether thats by drafting a gem or signing / trading for players to fill around the talent of your team. Exactly what Tampa did

I follow Tampa Bay as my second team and I can you the Lightning didn't keep the "same core." When you see long haulers like Stamkos and Hedman and maybe Killorn, those are the last men standing from a team that evolved a lot under Yzerman and Brisebois over the past 10 years.

In net, they went from Dwayne Roloson on the Cinderella 2011 ECF run to getting Ben Bishop for Cory Conacher, who was a young up and coming winger for a brief amount of time. The next year they missed the playoffs and also traded a top 4 defenseman in Kyle Quincey to Detroit for the Andrei Vasilevskiy pick and set themselves up for two starting goalie changes over the next decade.

They also bought out Vincent Lecavalier at the age of 32-33 because his contract was just going to run forever and block them from doing anything. They traded Marty St. Louis who was still in his prime over the Olympic team selection fiasco. Maybe there's a parallel there with Tavares, maybe not, but they did make massive changes to their older core.

In terms of moving out youth, Jonathan Drouin was their highest pick since Hedman and Stamkos in 2013. They ended up trading him for Mikhail Sergachev in 2017 to improve their defense. Teddy Purcell was a roughly Zach Hyman level outer core member. They traded him.

All the while they kept getting better because they drafted Palat, Kucherov, Cirelli and Point and signed guys like Johnson and Gourde. At least two of those guys are better than Stamkos. To use a comparison we would have to be drafting guys in high volume who are in some cases as good or if not better than Matthews, Marner and Nylander.

There's no real equivalency between Toronto and Tampa Bay other than on the most superficial levels that ew both have flashy forwards and wear blue and white. Their build took a very long time, involved massive core changing moves and they had some setbacks but very early on they had a pillar on defense and a couple of blue chip options in goal. They also drafted at an unreal level which we have not done.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I doubt it. You'll have your usual suspects cheering on this team no matter what and telling everyone how great they are. But I get the feeling this most recent loss to Montreal was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people. People are fed up with this organization and it's ineptitude, a few meaningless regular season victories isn't gonna make that go away.

Agreed.

There's nothing this team can do in the regular season that will impress the fans. Even finishing 1st in the league means nothing. The team has lost 1st round series from all sorts of positions whether it's being middle of the pack, 1st in the North, or a wild-card entry.

There's a sense of helplessness around this core and that's a horrible stench to shake off.

 

[myleafs]

No I’m not disappointed they are sticking with the core.

Imagine if we have 4 guys going over PPG in the playoffs? That would be near unstoppable to beat.

Could have, would have, should have , only if. Problem is this is fantasy, they didn't and haven't so why would we think they can.

 

[myleafs]

but I don't buy because you won a few rounds your season was successful,

Toronto could make it to the conference finals and lose next season and we would all be sitting here not happy trying to trade one of the core members for the hell of it.

So you don't think winning a few rounds is more successful than not winning any rounds? umm ok

Not sure what bizzarro universe the 2nd bolded happens. I can pretty much guarantee that if the leafs make it to the conference finals, 99 per cent of the posters in here would be very very happy, at least until they shit the bed the following year.

 

[Trapper]

So you don't think winning a few rounds is more successful than not winning any rounds? umm ok

Not sure what bizzarro universe the 2nd bolded happens. I can pretty much guarantee that if the leafs make it to the conference finals, 99 per cent of the posters in here would be very very happy, at least until they shit the bed the following year.

Exactly.
You don’t think NY l/Carolina has learned more by winning some rounds in the playoffs vs. failing right after the regular season every time?

I mean if you get to the 3rd round consistently, would you be looking at your team differently, needing another piece here or there?

If you can’t even win a round, isn’t that a different look? Make you say something is wrong?

 

[myleafs]

You cannot properly construct a team when 50% of the cap is tied up in 4 similar forward…….especially when two 11 million dollar players routinely fail to produce……..the bargain bin players those 4 have forced on the team cannot make up for it

Exactly...Tampa has their money spread around nicely with a couple stud forwards, stud dman, stud goalie. Im not a big fan of 50% tied up in 4 players but if you are gonna go that route, it needs to be spread out differently than 4 forwards all who are varying degrees of soft.

 

[myleafs]

This is Shanny's vision as much as it is Dubas. He is the guy who thinks players that played the way he did are an embarrassment to the sport. He seems sickened by the fact that grunt work wins cups most of the time and wants to prove everyone wrong.

Chelios did say that Shanny has a very outsized Ego and I think we are seeing the effects right now.

Who in here wouldn't love to see a team philosophy that embraced the way that Shanny played the game? Kinda like the Bruins and Cam Neely. Kind of weird actually that what made Shanny so successful as a player are the traits that he is working so hard to avoid.

 

[myleafs]

So our plan is to have a rookie GM who is:

going to change the way the playoffs have been played for the past 100 years,

pay 4 forwards half the cap and hope they get it,

hire a rookie coach who has never won in the playoffs for them,

give Matthews, Marner, Nylander who have a combined total playoff series wins of 0 an 11 million guy who has a total of 1 playoff series win in 13 years

And the president thinks they will learn killer instinct? Is there a school for that?

Tell me this isn’t really the plan???
They are just kidding up to this point right?

Geez, when you lay it out like that.....

 

[myleafs]

I doubt it. You'll have your usual suspects cheering on this team no matter what and telling everyone how great they are. But I get the feeling this most recent loss to Montreal was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people. People are fed up with this organization and it's ineptitude, a few meaningless regular season victories isn't gonna make that go away.

Yep, I think they could go 82-0 and there will still be a lot of apprehension from most fans and for good reason...fool me once as they say.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Who in here wouldn't love to see a team philosophy that embraced the way that Shanny played the game? Kinda like the Bruins and Cam Neely. Kind of weird actually that what made Shanny so successful as a player are the traits that he is working so hard to avoid.

Isn't really odd? I mean, it's like a former Doctor who disavows Medicine after he retires and calls it butchery or something.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Does this picture not exemplify what's wrong with the leafs?

Couldn’t open it.

 

[Stephen]

Agreed.

There's nothing this team can do in the regular season that will impress the fans. Even finishing 1st in the league means nothing. The team has lost 1st round series from all sorts of positions whether it's being middle of the pack, 1st in the North, or a wild-card entry.

There's a sense of helplessness around this core and that's a horrible stench to shake off.

I'll be interested to follow the team based on how they handle an 82 game season, how they come out for those traditional trap games and what their details look like. If it's loosey goosey, flip a switch, Harlem Globetrotters meets boy band stuff you'll pretty much know there's no progression from what we saw last year. If you see them play with sustained hunger (which they really haven't for the past 2 years) maybe you sit up and look for other signs of a culture shift. But generally, this team is so unfun to get emotionally attached to, I'm personally looking forward to life getting back to more normalcy and watching fewer games.

 

[IPS]

And I don't hate Keefe. He's just the wrong coach. This team needs a structured defensive minded coach.

There is no way in hell management would EVER go with a structured defensive minded coach. Like zero chance whatsoever.

If there's anyway to make Dubas even worse - it's reducing Matthews/Marner's offense by a lot in a defense-first system and making those contracts look a whole other level of bad. Individual numbers and awards are the one thing they have to cling to in order to make those contracts look even close to palatable.

 

[rumman]

Man, the whining is still going strong. As soon as the Leafs string a few wins together next season, the bandwagon will fill right back up.

true enough, but some of us have voiced are position and have stuck to it. So far we've been right about this trainwreck, we're called the "killjoys" and we ruin everything by addressing reality.............

 

[ShaneFalco]

Man, the whining is still going strong. As soon as the Leafs string a few wins together next season, the bandwagon will fill right back up.

Yeah don't think so. And whining?! PLEASE

 

[fahad203]

I don't care if they stay or go.

This team reminds me of Ottawa Senators of late 90s and early 2000s. With Yashin, Phillips, Hossa, Havlat, Alfie, Arvedsson, Radek Bonk, Redden, Chara, Dakell, Fisher

They had a solid young group but they couldn't beat Toronto. Lalime would find a way to lose, Emery would find a way to lose

Our goaltending reminds me of Lalime. Good even fantastic but can't seem to win big games or lets in a soft one to completely deflate the team

They too start bringing players who passed their prime to beat the Leafs. Vaclav Varada, Peter Bondra, Smolinski, Leschiysin(spelling?)

It was not until Spezza really matured and Healtly that team team became lethel.

Except though, none of their young guns were outrageously paid

 

[socko]

I'd be shocked if they didn't stick with the core. These group of losers are all going down together in the hall of shame. And if Shanahan isn't fired next offseason, we'll do it all over again in 2022, 2023.... This is about the time where it blows up. When the albatross contracts are ready to be replaced by bigger albatrosses.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Man, the whining is still going strong. As soon as the Leafs string a few wins together next season, the bandwagon will fill right back up.

We’re WAY beyond caring if this team strings a few wins together in the regular season.

 

[Racer88]

I'll be interested to follow the team based on how they handle an 82 game season, how they come out for those traditional trap games and what their details look like. If it's loosey goosey, flip a switch, Harlem Globetrotters meets boy band stuff you'll pretty much know there's no progression from what we saw last year. If you see them play with sustained hunger (which they really haven't for the past 2 years) maybe you sit up and look for other signs of a culture shift. But generally, this team is so unfun to get emotionally attached to, I'm personally looking forward to life getting back to more normalcy and watching fewer games.

It will be interesting to see if they can fix the PP. I think that will tell us more about the team then anything.
Without at least a decent PP they will go nowhere

 

[Racer88]

We’re WAY beyond caring if this team strings a few wins together in the regular season.

I’m with you on that. If they don’t do at least 1 of trade Marner, fire Keefe or fire Dubas we will just see the same false hope during the season and the core go invisible in the playoffs.
5 years of this core has been enough for me