Are there still enough gold medal candidates?

[Garl]

Russia always sent the best possible roster, thats why they were a contender.
Right now, considering the quality of NHL players there are 4 teams that should be able to win the championship, Canada, Sweden, Finland and USA. Czech Republic is close.
Now, when all of the main teams have so many declines, Canada has an advantage due to depth and Switzerland, Germany get a chance to even win

 

[Old Man Jags]

Looking at the recent development of the last tournaments, only Canada and Finland seem to be able to win gold at the moment.

Sweden should be able to do the same. But something seems amiss. It can only be a mental question. Because the potential of Swedish hockey is gigantic. Reminds me a bit of Germany in soccer.

The Czech Republic doesn't seem to be there yet (I thought they were), maybe the home World Cup will give them a chance to win gold.

Switzerland has too weak nerves and perhaps overestimates itself a bit.

USA just can't get past the wall semifinals. It's a "law of nature".

At the moment only Canada and Finland are left.

Aside from the absence of Russia, I don’t really see a major change. These things fluctuate a little bit from time to time, currently Finland is doing much better than they used to do historically, but otherwise at the beginning of the tournament the odds are more or less as they have been for many years.

It also depends a lot on the roster each team has available in any given year.

Canada will always be a medal contender with any roster, Sweden more or less as well, despite a bit of a trough in the past few years. The Czechs have not been gold medal contenders for quite some time now, so that’s nothing new. They dominated this competition for a while, winning the last hat trick of titles of any nation I believe (1999 - 2001), then gold again in 2005 and 2010 and since then, nothing. So that is not a new situation. The US has, at this tournament at least, never really been a gold medal contender. So again, no change here. It seems that your post contends that this is a recent development, but I think that gold medal favorites are more or less the same they have always been. Apart from the Czechs I guess. Slovakia was never a gold medal favorite, they only won it once over 20 years ago and were not favorites then, either.

As for medals in general, rather than just the gold, I would say that the scope of potential medalists has actually widened rather than narrowed. Switzerland, Germany and now Latvia are all in the frame, which emphatically did not use to be the case. With Latvia we will have to see whether this tournament was a one-off, but with Switzerland in particular (and to a lesser extent Germany) this may become a more regular occurrence then up till now.

 

[ts11]

Aside from the absence of Russia, I don’t really see a major change. These things fluctuate a little bit from time to time, currently Finland is doing much better than they used to do historically, but otherwise at the beginning of the tournament the odds are more or less as they have been for many years.

It also depends a lot on the roster each team has available in any given year.

Canada will always be a medal contender with any roster, Sweden more or less as well, despite a bit of a trough in the past few years. The Czechs have not been gold medal contenders for quite some time now, so that’s nothing new. They dominated this competition for a while, winning the last hat trick of titles of any nation I believe (1999 - 2001), then gold again in 2005 and 2010 and since then, nothing. So that is not a new situation. The US has, at this tournament at least, never really been a gold medal contender. So again, no change here. It seems that your post contends that this is a recent development, but I think that gold medal favorites are more or less the same they have always been. Apart from the Czechs I guess. Slovakia was never a gold medal favorite, they only won it once over 20 years ago and were not favorites then, either.

As for medals in general, rather than just the gold, I would say that the scope of potential medalists has actually widened rather than narrowed. Switzerland, Germany and now Latvia are all in the frame, which emphatically did not use to be the case. With Latvia we will have to see whether this tournament was a one-off, but with Switzerland in particular (and to a lesser extent Germany) this may become a more regular occurrence then up till now.

As a German fan, I'd be happy if this would become a once/twice in a decade occurance,, still not sold on the "German the next hockey power" thing. It's only since 2016 that the DEB is constantly able to reach the quarters (only failed once during this timeframe).

 

[Lambo]

Aside from the absence of Russia, I don’t really see a major change. These things fluctuate a little bit from time to time, currently Finland is doing much better than they used to do historically, but otherwise at the beginning of the tournament the odds are more or less as they have been for many years.

It also depends a lot on the roster each team has available in any given year.

Canada will always be a medal contender with any roster, Sweden more or less as well, despite a bit of a trough in the past few years. The Czechs have not been gold medal contenders for quite some time now, so that’s nothing new. They dominated this competition for a while, winning the last hat trick of titles of any nation I believe (1999 - 2001), then gold again in 2005 and 2010 and since then, nothing. So that is not a new situation. The US has, at this tournament at least, never really been a gold medal contender. So again, no change here. It seems that your post contends that this is a recent development, but I think that gold medal favorites are more or less the same they have always been. Apart from the Czechs I guess. Slovakia was never a gold medal favorite, they only won it once over 20 years ago and were not favorites then, either.

As for medals in general, rather than just the gold, I would say that the scope of potential medalists has actually widened rather than narrowed. Switzerland, Germany and now Latvia are all in the frame, which emphatically did not use to be the case. With Latvia we will have to see whether this tournament was a one-off, but with Switzerland in particular (and to a lesser extent Germany) this may become a more regular occurrence then up till now.

In additon! I only meant gold! I keep reading comments here where people switch to "medals". But I mean gold. 1st place! This relates to the recent past.

As a German fan, I'd be happy if this would become a once/twice in a decade occurance,, still not sold on the "German the next hockey power" thing. It's only since 2016 that the DEB is constantly able to reach the quarters (only failed once during this timeframe).

It will depend on how much prospects Germany will bring out year after year.

 

[Gold Standard]

But few golds

few? Only one to be precise. And only one other GMG appearance where they were given a sharp lesson in how the game is played on an elite level. but they ignored the lesson. And that's their problem.

 

[Old Man Jags]

In additon! I only meant gold! I keep reading comments here where people switch to "medals". But I mean gold. 1st place! This relates to the recent past.


It will depend on how much prospects Germany will bring out year after year.

Yes, I know you only meant gold. That is why I prefaced the last paragraph accordingly, making clear that that para only talks about medals outside gold as well. The rest of the message is only about gold.

 

[Hanji]

In additon! I only meant gold! I keep reading comments here where people switch to "medals". But I mean gold. 1st place! This relates to the recent past.


It will depend on how much prospects Germany will bring out year after year.

Medal count is a good barometer because the difference between gold, silver and bronze can be razor thin.
Hell, 2 years ago the difference between Canada winning gold and not makng the medal round was Norway defeating Kazakhstan in their final game. Things can be that close, and out of a team's control.

A high medal count means a country is always in the mix to win gold.
It's a reflection of high level consistency, which is a reflection of a healthy program.

 

[Czechboy]

Russia always sent the best possible roster, thats why they were a contender.
Right now, considering the quality of NHL players there are 4 teams that should be able to win the championship, Canada, Sweden, Finland and USA. Czech Republic is close.
Now, when all of the main teams have so many declines, Canada has an advantage due to depth and Switzerland, Germany get a chance to even win

I've said the Czech best on best roster could win a Skoda consistently. However, we can't win a best on best currently.

 

[martygod12]

I've said the Czech best on best roster could win a Skoda consistently. However, we can't win a best on best currently.

We dont stand a chance in best on best untill we can develop some Ds. We need to wait untill Svozil, Spacek, and Jiricek brothers will grow to full potential and join Hronek, so we can field at least somehow competitive defense lol.

Otherwise it will always look like this year.

 

[Lambo]

Medal count is a good barometer because the difference between gold, silver and bronze can be razor thin.
Hell, 2 years ago the difference between Canada winning gold and not makng the medal round was Norway defeating Kazakhstan in their final game. Things can be that close, and out of a team's control.

A high medal count means a country is always in the mix to win gold.
It's a reflection of high level consistency, which is a reflection of a healthy program.

Still, winning gold is the hardest. The final is another very special game. That's why I think it's important to stay on topic, otherwise I could have written "medal candidates". But that's not my point!

 

[Coffee]

Russia always sent the best possible roster, thats why they were a contender.
Right now, considering the quality of NHL players there are 4 teams that should be able to win the championship, Canada, Sweden, Finland and USA. Czech Republic is close.
Now, when all of the main teams have so many declines, Canada has an advantage due to depth and Switzerland, Germany get a chance to even win

I argue Czech are stronger than Sweden

We dont stand a chance in best on best untill we can develop some Ds. We need to wait untill Svozil, Spacek, and Jiricek brothers will grow to full potential and join Hronek, so we can field at least somehow competitive defense lol.

Otherwise it will always look like this year.

We will have really good defenders coming up next 5 years, which is likely when the real best on best will going on.

 

[Svedu]

Am i missing something? World championship rosters arent even best on best anymore are we really bragging about medal wins in those?

Well, isn't it a fact that Canada and Finland have been the best these last years?
Isn't it a fact that Dallas, Florida and the Hurricanes were pretty good this year and guess what their teams had in common? Leading players were Finnish. Hintz and Heiskanen were MVP's for their team.
Then you have Barkov, Lundell and Luostarinen in the Panthers and Lundell being so good and responsible at this age as a center as well?
Kotkaniemi has always stepped up and been decent in the playoffs and let's just not forget that they have Aho and Teräväinen as well.
What about Rantanens regular season when we are at it?
Also, it's not a fluke what so ever. All of them were playing final games int he WJC's and many of them won the gold or were MVP's just like Lundell. He was always criminally underrated with skating as his only weakness.

My point is, no matter how you wanna twist and turn things or look at it? Finland and Canada have been superior these last years, especially the latter (as always).
Or should we just dream about the next time when stars will be allowed in the olympics, imagine if that doesn't happen in this decade? Has that crossed your mind?
So are some of you guys in here stating that it's forbidden to measure and do that in different ways?
I think it's so silly that some hockeyfans cannot give Czechs the recognition of their success in 98's and with their stars. Swedish hockey a decade ago, or a bit more. And now the Finnish success lately.
Canada has always been a top country but that's somewhat expected from them, the same could almost be said about the Russians.
But now? It's just a fact that Finland (amongst senior pro's) are the clear number two behind Canada and it's almost not debatable. Off course the US and Sweden are very even and could beat us in a best-on-best, the Czechs will sooner or later probably be there as well.

It has been so frustrating for us Finns to not be able to witness what this country could achieve in a best-on-best. Canada will always be the favorite but there is nothing, nothing that makes me believe that there would be a greater chance to see the US or Sweden against Canada in a final than it would be to see Finland there. Finland have a pool of star forwards and good goalies and that together with a great system would take us far. I mean star forwards, nowadays Rantanen, Barkov, Aho, Hintz are clear cut stars and guess what, they are able to play as centers all of them.
Heiskanen is a big star and Välimäki, Salo, Heinola, Niemelä and others will be growing and last but not least? If there is a country and a coach who has shown us that the key point in success is to defend well with the whole team and that It doesn't necessarily demand d-men being able to create a whole lot of offense? It's Jalonen and Finland.

Finlands problems will begin in 5-8 years if they cannot turn things around though. These last drafts tells us that and Finland need to learn their talents to skate because this seems to be a big specific Finnish problem.
But I guess that is another story...

 

[Albatros]

Well, isn't it a fact that Canada and Finland have been the best these last years?
Isn't it a fact that Dallas, Florida and the Hurricanes were pretty good this year and guess what their teams had in common? Leading players were Finnish. Hintz and Heiskanen were MVP's for their team.
Then you have Barkov, Lundell and Luostarinen in the Panthers and Lundell being so good and responsible at this age as a center as well?
Kotkaniemi has always stepped up and been decent in the playoffs and let's just not forget that they have Aho and Teräväinen as well.

My point is, no matter how you wanna twist and turn things or look at it? Finland and Canada have been superior.

Carolina
FIN 9+12=21
USA 15+26=41

Dallas
FIN 13+33=46
USA 18+23=41

Florida
FIN 7+19=26
USA 9+14=23

Vegas
FIN 0+0=0
USA 6+19=25

 

[Svedu]

Carolina
FIN 9+12=21
USA 15+26=41

Dallas
FIN 13+33=46
USA 18+23=41

Florida
FIN 7+19=26
USA 9+14=23

Vegas
FIN 0+0=0
USA 6+19=25

Yeah, so tell me which players from Carolina you would choose before Aho? Only one who comes up in my mind is Necas in the future because of his skating etc. Which American is better?

Dallas... Again, Hintz and Heiskanen are the best players on their roster?

Florida... Is Barkov the captain? How competitive would their team be without Barkov, Luostarinen and Lundell? Pretty much weaker defensively if anything! Point producing isn't everything you know?

 

[ORRFForever]

Well, isn't it a fact that Canada and Finland have been the best these last years?
Isn't it a fact that Dallas, Florida and the Hurricanes were pretty good this year and guess what their teams had in common? Leading players were Finnish. Hintz and Heiskanen were MVP's for their team.
Then you have Barkov, Lundell and Luostarinen in the Panthers and Lundell being so good and responsible at this age as a center as well?
Kotkaniemi has always stepped up and been decent in the playoffs and let's just not forget that they have Aho and Teräväinen as well.
What about Rantanens regular season when we are at it?
Also, it's not a fluke what so ever. All of them were playing final games int he WJC's and many of them won the gold or were MVP's just like Lundell. He was always criminally underrated with skating as his only weakness.

My point is, no matter how you wanna twist and turn things or look at it? Finland and Canada have been superior these last years, especially the latter (as always).
Or should we just dream about the next time when stars will be allowed in the olympics, imagine if that doesn't happen in this decade? Has that crossed your mind?
So are some of you guys in here stating that it's forbidden to measure and do that in different ways?
I think it's so silly that some hockeyfans cannot give Czechs the recognition of their success in 98's and with their stars. Swedish hockey a decade ago, or a bit more. And now the Finnish success lately.
Canada has always been a top country but that's somewhat expected from them, the same could almost be said about the Russians.
But now? It's just a fact that Finland (amongst senior pro's) are the clear number two behind Canada and it's almost not debatable. Off course the US and Sweden are very even and could beat us in a best-on-best, the Czechs will sooner or later probably be there as well.

It has been so frustrating for us Finns to not be able to witness what this country could achieve in a best-on-best. Canada will always be the favorite but there is nothing, nothing that makes me believe that there would be a greater chance to see the US or Sweden against Canada in a final than it would be to see Finland there. Finland have a pool of star forwards and good goalies and that together with a great system would take us far. I mean star forwards, nowadays Rantanen, Barkov, Aho, Hintz are clear cut stars and guess what, they are able to play as centers all of them.
Heiskanen is a big star and Välimäki, Salo, Heinola, Niemelä and others will be growing and last but not least? If there is a country and a coach who has shown us that the key point in success is to defend well with the whole team and that It doesn't necessarily demand d-men being able to create a whole lot of offense? It's Jalonen and Finland.

Finlands problem will begin in 5-8 years if they cannot turn things around though. These last drafts tells us that and Finland need to learn their talents to skate because this seems to be a big specific Finnish problem.
But I guess this is another story...

In my mind, Finland is the 2nd best hockey nation in 2023 - sounds like you feel the same. If others feel different, don't sweat it.

 

[Albatros]

Yeah, so tell me which players from Carolina you would choose before Aho? Only one who comes up in my mind is Necas in the future because of his skating etc. Which American is better?

Dallas... Again, Hintz and Heiskanen are the best players on their roster?

Florida... Is Barkov the captain? How competitive would their team be without Barkov, Luostarinen and Lundell? Pretty much weaker defensively if anything! Point producing isn't everything you know?

Robertson broke the scoring record in Dallas by a country mile and I don't think there's any question about Tkachuk being the star and leader in Florida either. Regardless of how you feel about Aho in particular, Carolina has a pretty decent American defense corp in Slavin-Pesce-Skjei-Gostisbehere-Chatfield.

 

[Postulates]

each team in the finals best player is an american

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Russia always sent the best possible roster, thats why they were a contender.
Right now, considering the quality of NHL players there are 4 teams that should be able to win the championship, Canada, Sweden, Finland and USA. Czech Republic is close.
Now, when all of the main teams have so many declines, Canada has an advantage due to depth and Switzerland, Germany get a chance to even win

In a best on best tournament, Russia would absolutely be a contender for gold, especially when you factor in their goaltending.

Canada/USA
Russia/Sweden/Finland
Czechs/Swiss
Germany/Slovakia

 

[Eye of Ra]

I argue Czech are stronger than Sweden

i agree. but what are you basing it on? that they done better than Sweden in international tournaments? or you think czechia have better players in NHL than Sweden have?

 

[ORRFForever]

each team in the finals best player is an american

Have you see how many Canadian players are on the two remaining teams? Almost every year, Canadians dominate the Cup winning team.

Based on who played in their last game :

Las Vegas will ice :

1 Swede
2 Americans
1 Russian
16 Canadians

Florida will ice :

2 Russians
2 Finns
3 Americans
1 Swede
1 Czech
11 Canadians

 

[Hanji]

Still, winning gold is the hardest. The final is another very special game. That's why I think it's important to stay on topic, otherwise I could have written "medal candidates". But that's not my point!

Winning a semi-finals or quarterfinals game can be more difficult than winning the gold medal game.
A big factor in winning gold can be who you play and when.

For example do you remember when Sweden purposely lost to Slovakia at the 2006 olympics?
They did so to face Switzerland instead of Canada in the quarterfinals. They then went on to win gold.

That’s why medal count is important. It takes into account the totality of the situation as it pertains to legitimate candidates to win gold.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

each team in the finals best player is an american

This is not a valid data point in this discussion.

 

[jj cale]

In a best on best tournament, Russia would absolutely be a contender for gold, especially when you factor in their goaltending.

Canada/USA
Russia/Sweden/Finland
Czechs/Swiss
Germany/Slovakia

You have it bang on correct here for the present time.

 

[Garl]

I argue Czech are stronger than Sweden

Sweden is number 2 or 3 based on roster. Ahead of Russia and Finland There is no argument for Czech at all.

 

[Garl]

In a best on best tournament, Russia would absolutely be a contender for gold, especially when you factor in their goaltending.

Canada/USA
Russia/Sweden/Finland
Czechs/Swiss
Germany/Slovakia

Russia has problems with centers and with d, their star group is aging.
Thing with iihf wc is that they always sent their best. Every year you see some swedish or finnish players decline invitations due to being busy with their family, insurance issues, having some minor injuries etc For russians it was never a good reason at least from the middle 2000s.