Are the Toronto Maple Leafs Stanley Cup contenders?

[Mick Riddleton]

Playoffs, playoffs are we talking playoffs -

they may not even make it there.

 

[Pucklington]

I don't see how they could be considered one. They have massive holes in goaltending and defense, and their forward depth has been poor.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

A Better response to Marner regarding trade..... but won't happen.
"We need to strengthen the team on the blue line and depth up front. We can't win with this team/core. So we are going to sell part of the core to strengthen other positions on the team. Being that you're game is soft and play offs are a problem for you. We would rather trade you than resign you. Any particular teams you would like us to call first? But if you insist on enforcing tour no move clause.....I guess we can just continue as usual. And you and the can continue to run the team"

Think a player , any player might change his mind and waive his no movement after that fact bearing conversation?

Yeah, I think a number of them might say "there's other ways you can fix this team; you figure that out, because I'm not leaving." At most, they say "go strike a deal with someone, let me know and I'll tell you if I'll waive or not."

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Has anyone photoshoped them getting a bunch of those stanley cups that white women love to drink their coffee out of because they "can't even" with this cold weather tucked away inside a warm building somewhere ?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm honestly surprised that Toronto didn't take advantage of this window better. It always felt like just a matter of time until my Bruins got surpassed by the Leafs... and it just never happened. The only Bruins old left is Marchand and the Leafs still haven't caught up.

And this year really is the last year of this current window. Next year they will be too gutted. But they should have another window in this core, just need to get around of good ELC guys and the right vets in the middle of the roster. Teams like the Pens and the Bruins were able to get a second run out of their core, teams like Chicago and LA didn't (although there is still time for Kopitar and Doughty).

I'm not, because the big issue *is* the core. With those other teams that have had success, the core guys show up in the playoffs. When those teams struggled, it's because the rest of the roster was lacking in some kind of area. In Toronto's case, the biggest impediment to their playoff success has been the core guys simply not getting it done.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I'm honestly surprised that Toronto didn't take advantage of this window better. It always felt like just a matter of time until my Bruins got surpassed by the Leafs... and it just never happened. The only Bruins old left is Marchand and the Leafs still haven't caught up.

And this year really is the last year of this current window. Next year they will be too gutted. But they should have another window in this core, just need to get around of good ELC guys and the right vets in the middle of the roster. Teams like the Pens and the Bruins were able to get a second run out of their core, teams like Chicago and LA didn't (although there is still time for Kopitar and Doughty).

How are they gonna do that? Chicago did a soft re-tool that had some rebuildish elements to it after they won the Cup in 2010 and then the cap gutted a bunch of their secondary players with some lean seasons they barely made the Playoffs, and was able to draft/acquire a lot of guys that helped out in future Cups like Saad, Leddy, Shaw. Toronto needs to hang onto any secondary pieces they can get at this point and any residual waves have come and gone, their stars make too much to be all that competitive capwise with competitors and they've traded away many draft picks in recent ways.

A new ELC wave looks fairly unlikely. If it were to come and match up with a timeline, it would need to be from the past few drafts or next few upcoming ones. They've made 5 picks in the first four rounds of the last three drafts (out of a baseline of 12), they've already traded away the next three years of 2nd round picks and traded away their 2025 first round pick.. we'll see if they keep their 2024 1st round pick with pressure to improve. A nice 2nd contract with great development for Knies would be helpful, of course.

Boston was of course saved by Marchand's unexpected glow-up, hitting a homerun on drafting Pastrnak and a triple on McAvoy along with a coaching change to get in place the defensive system. For context, Crosby was 28 when Pittsburgh won the Cup in 2016, seven years after the first time with Crosby. Matthews is 26 right now. They were also operating under old cap rules that made things that were issues in their previous couple seasons, like a third line and getting a top line winger easier.

 

[Strangle]

Why do you think the Maple Leafs are forced to use such bad goaltenders?

Samsonov is the only bad goalie the leafs have had to use in a long time. And that’s just this year.

Leafs goaltending year to year has been good to good enough.

Campbell had a career year, Samsonov had a career year, Woll looks great, jones is having a resurgence and even Murray played well. Freddy and Reimer were good

Which stats are you looking at that say the leafs have been forced to use bad goaltending?

Aside from the obvious non-NHL goaltending from Sammy, what’s ‘bad’ about the stats of Woll and Jones?

 

[General Fanager]

Marner and his soft perimeter game is as good as gone.

Only if he chooses to leave. The Leafs cannot move him in any way whatsoever. They had their chance and blew it

 

[PaulD]

How are they gonna do that? Chicago did a soft re-tool that had some rebuildish elements to it after they won the Cup in 2010 and then the cap gutted a bunch of their secondary players with some lean seasons they barely made the Playoffs, and was able to draft/acquire a lot of guys that helped out in future Cups like Saad, Leddy, Shaw. Toronto needs to hang onto any secondary pieces they can get at this point and any residual waves have come and gone, their stars make too much to be all that competitive capwise with competitors and they've traded away many draft picks in recent ways.

A new ELC wave looks fairly unlikely. If it were to come and match up with a timeline, it would need to be from the past few drafts or next few upcoming ones. They've made 5 picks in the first four rounds of the last three drafts (out of a baseline of 12), they've already traded away the next three years of 2nd round picks and traded away their 2025 first round pick.. we'll see if they keep their 2024 1st round pick with pressure to improve. A nice 2nd contract with great development for Knies would be helpful, of course.

Boston was of course saved by Marchand's unexpected glow-up, hitting a homerun on drafting Pastrnak and a triple on McAvoy along with a coaching change to get in place the defensive system. For context, Crosby was 28 when Pittsburgh won the Cup in 2016, seven years after the first time with Crosby. Matthews is 26 right now. They were also operating under old cap rules that made things that were issues in their previous couple seasons, like a third line and getting a top line winger easier.

That's a mitt full of pretty lame excuses why some teams have been able to accomplish what the leafs never have.

 

[WarriorofTime]

That's a mitt full of pretty lame excuses why some teams have been able to accomplish what the leafs never have.

I didn't make any excuses though, I'm saying the Leafs aren't particularly well positioned for Matthews/Marner/Nylander's 30s to make a go at it and outlined the reasons why.

 

[Strangle]

Only if he chooses to leave. The Leafs cannot move him in any way whatsoever. They had their chance and blew it

“Hey. Mitch. We want to trade you.”

“What?? You can’t do that! I refuse! I’m not leaving!”

“Okay”

**Mitch Marner - healthy scratch**

“I SAID IM NOT LEAVING!”

**Mitch Marner - 9 minutes of ice time**

“YOU CANT BREAK ME!”

“How does reuniting with Dubas and playing on Crosby’s wing in your contract year next year sound?”

“f*** YOU TRELIVING!”

**Mitch Marner - healthy scratch**

“What did you say about Kyle and Crosby?”

In situations like this, you just gotta think “What would Vegas do?”

Also, I can’t think of many players who would reject being traded when their team wants to trade them and they have final say in their destination.

No one wants to play on a team where they aren’t wanted

 

[Commander Clueless]

Look we're all rooting for our favourite boys in blue and white. Who doesn't love the forward depth of Pontus Holmberg and his plucky underdogs? Captain Morgan Rielly and his band of merry men-youve-never-heard-of on the back end? Old Man Jones stopping pucks left and right?

After so many misses this off-season I just don't see it, but stranger things have happened. A second half resurgence from Brodie, Bertuzzi, Tavares, and Giordano would be a good start...

 

[PaulD]

I didn't make any excuses though, I'm saying the Leafs aren't particularly well positioned for Matthews/Marner/Nylander's 30s to make a go at it and outlined the reasons why.

Cool. My apologies

 

[PaulD]

Look we're all rooting for our favourite boys in blue and white. Who doesn't love the forward depth of Pontus Holmberg and his plucky underdogs? Captain Morgan Rielly and his band of merry men-youve-never-heard-of on the back end? Old Man Jones stopping pucks left and right?

After so many misses this off-season I just don't see it, but stranger things have happened. A second half resurgence from Brodie, Bertuzzi, Tavares, and Giordano would be a good start...

What stranger things ?

“Hey. Mitch. We want to trade you.”

“What?? You can’t do that! I refuse! I’m not leaving!”

“Okay”

**Mitch Marner - healthy scratch**

“I SAID IM NOT LEAVING!”

**Mitch Marner - 9 minutes of ice time**

“YOU CANT BREAK ME!”

“How does reuniting with Dubas and playing on Crosby’s wing in your contract year next year sound?”

“f*** YOU TRELIVING!”

**Mitch Marner - healthy scratch**

“What did you say about Kyle and Crosby?”

In situations like this, you just gotta think “What would Vegas do?”

Also, I can’t think of many players who would reject being traded when their team wants to trade them and they have final say in their destination.

No one wants to play on a team where they aren’t wanted

Bingo.

Once Mitch understands its not HIS team.
He maybe more agreeable

 

[General Fanager]

“Hey. Mitch. We want to trade you.”

“What?? You can’t do that! I refuse! I’m not leaving!”

“Okay”

**Mitch Marner - healthy scratch**

“I SAID IM NOT LEAVING!”

**Mitch Marner - 9 minutes of ice time**

“YOU CANT BREAK ME!”

“How does reuniting with Dubas and playing on Crosby’s wing in your contract year next year sound?”

“f*** YOU TRELIVING!”

**Mitch Marner - healthy scratch**

“What did you say about Kyle and Crosby?”

In situations like this, you just gotta think “What would Vegas do?”

Also, I can’t think of many players who would reject being traded when their team wants to trade them and they have final say in their destination.

No one wants to play on a team where they aren’t wanted

1. Then he walks in July and they get nothing. He signs wherever he wants.

2. The word also gets out that The Leafs messed with him and its even harder for then to attract UFAs.


Its a lose - lose for The Leafs. They gave him the NMC, they cant punish him for using it.

 

[Commander Clueless]

What stranger things ?

I mean....space is pretty whacky.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Neither did Pittsburgh when Matt Murray was called up from the minors to win the Cup or STL when Binnington showed up from the AHL to win the Cup or who expected Adin Hill to win the Stanley Cup last year?

I don't think planning to play the goalie who had a .932 save percentage last year in a tandem with the goalie who had a .919 save percentage last year was a bad idea. Whoever played better can start in the playoffs. Woll's numbers were better in the regular season and playoffs last year than Samsonov's - which is why they wanted to give him a chance. I don't think it's unreasonable to do that.

The problem occurred when Samsonov declined significantly and Woll got injured. Now you have to play your third string goaltender.

Was it a surprise that Woll got injured ?

 

[Divine]

Was it a surprise that Woll got injured ?

Yes.

 

[Strangle]

1. Then he walks in July and they get nothing. He signs wherever he wants.

2. The word also gets out that The Leafs messed with him and its even harder for then to attract UFAs.


Its a lose - lose for The Leafs. They gave him the NMC, they cant punish him for using it.

It’s not punishment, this stuff happens

Report: Ottawa Senators expected to ask Vladimir Tarasenko to waive NTC, listening on Jakob Chychrun | TSN

Bruce Garrioch of Postmedia reports "the expectation" is the Senators will ask pending unrestricted free agent Vladimir Tarasenko to waive his no-trade clause, and notes the team has also " tried unsuccessfully to move winger Dominik Kubalik."

www.tsn.ca

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Yes.

Third major injury in 4 1/2 years as a pro and you're surprised ?

I'm not surprised that you are...

 

[Divine]

Third major injury in 4 1/2 years as a pro and you're surprised ?

I'm not surprised that you are...

What are the major injuries? Please detail them with the dates.

You’re well-versed in his injuries so it shouldn’t be tough.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

What are the major injuries? Please detail them with the dates.

You’re well-versed in his injuries so it shouldn’t be tough.

He had a shoulder injury with the Marlies in 2021. While rehabbing, suffered an ankle injury. Altogether, that kept him out for over half a year. Now, just a high ankle sprain. So, yeah, 3. Not sure about major. Regarding exact dates, not sure why it matters.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

What are the major injuries? Please detail them with the dates.

You’re well-versed in his injuries so it shouldn’t be tough.

See @Pukboy5kroner .

 

[Divine]

He had a shoulder injury with the Marlies in 2021. While rehabbing, suffered an ankle injury. Altogether, that kept him out for over half a year. Now, just a high ankle sprain. So, yeah, 3. Not sure about major. Regarding exact dates, not sure why it matters.

So let’s see. He suffered an injury in 2021, faced a setback in recovery and that means we were supposed to predict he would be injured this year?

How is that 3 major injuries? It sounds like 1 major injuries and 2 minor and one of the minor happened while he was already injured and it wasn’t even considered serious.

I guess he was just making up the 3 major injuries.

So let me get this straight. The whole time he was saying Woll is unreliable is because he was injured once and had surgery and issues during his rehab? Seemed to me he was making things up.

He can’t provide the dates because the ankle injury was never reported. It was something minor that they said he should let heal because he was already out.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

So let’s see. He suffered an injury, faced a setback in recovery and that means we were supposed to predict he would be injured this year?

How is that 3 major injuries? It sounds like 1 major injuries and 2 minor and one of the minor happened while he was already injured so it wasn’t a third major injury.

I guess he was just making up the 3 major injuries.

So let me get this straight. The whole time he was saying Woll is unreliable is because he was injured once and had surgery and issues during his rehab? Seemed to me he was making things up.

He can’t provide the dates because the ankle injury was never reported. It was something minor that they said he should let heal because he was already out.

Like I said, not sure about the definition of major injury vs. minor. Argue about that if you want.

Between the shoulder and first ankle injury he was out 8 months, which is pretty significant, imo. With this one, we'll see.

And, I disagree on "making things up," that's just hyperbole on your part and, hence, not worth arguing with, as there are 3 reported injuries, with or without dates or video.