LEAFANFORLIFE23
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2010
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As for Kessel being mentioned up thread, he scored over a PPG over three straight seasons in Toronto and even made the playoffs there once as the standout player on his team, so I don't really buy that comparison.
Histrionic Leafs fans being upset he couldn't take them to the promised land is not relevant to anything really.
When they go on to go on deep playoff runs with their new team, do we call it the Kessel Run?We can call it the Kessel Effect.
He’s been a complete ghost so far (I know I know, it’s only preseason)We'll see, but I think Skinner will be better off in Edmonton than he was with the Sabres. Playing in the shadow of McDri should take some pressure off him. I'll miss his epically bad goal songs in Buffalo though
Kessel was absolutely raked over the coals for his entire career as an “empty calories” one-way shooter on awkwardly-constructed Boston and Toronto teams. Then he went to Pittsburgh and Vegas, and suddenly his skills were valuable to winning Stanley Cups.
It’s a narrative that gets attached to certain wingers. Hell, at one point it was common on here to see people suggest that Ovechkin was a net negative for trying to win hockey games. A Cup ring ends that debate every time, which is just a dumb dynamic in hockey analysis.
Who are you referring to exactly? Are you putting your chips on the table regarding Skinner going to EDM?People love to call these guys "empty calories" until they go out to a well constructed team and their offense helps that team win a Cup.. but then that also doesn't count because it wasn't "their" team or something. Le Centre Master Race or something.
Im not sure what you don’t understand. What “chips”? Are you asking to make a wager? Do better, be less antagonistic.Who are you referring to exactly? Are you putting your chips on the table regarding Skinner going to EDM?
?Im not sure what you don’t understand. What “chips”? Are you asking to make a wager? Do better, be less antagonistic.
Any scoring winger on a bad team is considered “empty calories”. It’s a meaningless phrase applied from a 3,000 foot view of the nhl landscape.?
I'm just asking who are these "empty calorie" players that have gone on to win cups you are referring to. And since you didn't say anyone specific, I used a turn to phrase to whimsically ask if you are making a prediction about Skinner this year, and EDM winning the cup.
Kinda weird that you are reading my comment as "antagonistic". That's more on you haha.
Or it's a valid understanding of how effectively all players on a team need to be defensively responsible to win the cup, as they otherwise become exploitabled by the opposition and are gameplanned around. We're not just talking "scoring wingers" here, we're talking about the "Mike Hoffman" types, the ones almost incapable of contributing defensively, or incapable of producing under pressure.Any scoring winger on a bad team is considered “empty calories”. It’s a meaningless phrase applied from a 3,000 foot view of the nhl landscape.
That’s my point. It’s not. Players can be criticized on their own merits. Empty calories is a useless phrase. It may as well be saying this winger doesn’t personally drag teams by the horns and make them into winning teams if they are not otherwise well constructed. Which… ok. Tells you basically nothing.Or it's a valid understanding
A good example is Florida moving on from "empty calorie" Huberdeau and then making two deep cup runs. They even further went and dropped Anthony Duclair in the offseason leading into their cup winning year, despite being a good offensive asset even in the postseason.That’s my point. It’s not. Players can be criticized on their own merits. Empty calories is a useless phrase. It may as well be saying this winger doesn’t personally drag teams by the horns and make them into winning teams if they are not otherwise well constructed. Which… ok. Tells you basically nothing.
They “moved on” by trading him for a player already viewed to be better. Not a great example. Obviously if you use retroactive reasoning to determine which scoring wingers are “empty calories” you’ll look like a genius. For something to be meaningful it should have some predictive power but of course it doesn’t. What made Patrick Kane a marquee player on three cup winners? His game screams “empty calories”?A good example is Florida moving on from "empty calorie" Huberdeau and then making two deep cup runs.
I don't know if Tkachuk was viewed as "better", especially offensively, at the time, but definitely the much more well-rounded player with confirmed team control.They “moved on” by trading him for a player already viewed to be better. Not a great example. Obviously if you use retroactive reasoning to determine which scoring wingers are “empty calories” you’ll look like a genius. For something to be meaningful it should have some predictive power but of course it doesn’t. What made Patrick Kane a marquee player on three cup winners? His game screams “empty calories”?
What.. Florida made the trade to improve their team, Calgary made the trade because Tkachuk wouldn't sign an extension. Florida sent a Top 4 Defenseman along the way to even out the trade a bit.I don't know if Tkachuk was viewed as "better",
Bingo..Patrick Kane's game is pretty "empty calories" today, but I wouldn't have said so in the past.
Florida gave up two expiring UFAs with only a year left on their respective contracts, with both players being highly exploited in the playoffs and leading to early playoff exits. Obviously it was a trade Florida made to improve their team, in getting rid of skilled players that were exploitabled defensively and couldn't perform under pressure, ie "empty calories".What.. Florida made the trade to improve their team, Calgary made the trade because Tkachuk wouldn't sign an extension. Florida sent a Top 4 Defenseman along the way to even out the trade a bit.
Kane is not the same player he was a decade ago haha. No more game-breaking speed, and pretty lackadaisical nowadays too. Kane would be a great third liner today. This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is.Bingo..
On great teams = not empty calories
On bad teams = empty calories
Unveil the curtain, and that's all it is.
No, I'm talking like later Blackhawk years. He was still just as skilled as before. You're talking about post major surgery lol.Kane is not the same player he was a decade ago haha. No more game-breaking speed, and pretty lackadaisical nowadays too. Kane would be a great third liner today. This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is.
Kessel played 4 games with Vegas that run logging 4th line minutes, so if people bring that up as some kind of feather in his cap, that would be weird.
People say a lot of dumb things on this board, which a lot of times makes it an insufferable place. Still doesn't make Kessel and Skinner comparable players ability wise. Kessel (while in Toronto) could really bury down on the wing and force the play north–south in a way Skinner never did.
People now talk about how great Skinner will look with McDavid. Kessel during Pittsburgh's back-to-back championships drove a line of his own with Bonino and Hagelin.
Well, im not saying that it's the "be all end all" and insinuating that Kane was the problem with those teams. I agree that essential roster construction is probably the most significant, but then you have to prune out the players that are being exploited when you want to win it all, even if they are putting up the points.No, I'm talking like later Blackhawk years. He was still just as skilled as before. You're talking about post major surgery lol.
Sure flawed players have flaws. Not disputing that. Empty calories is an indicator that their offense is somehow not impactful or helpful.Well, im not saying that it's the "be all end all" and insinuating that Kane was the problem with those teams. I agree that essential roster construction is probably the most significant, but then you have to prune out the players that are being exploited when you want to win it all, even if they are putting up the points.
These types of players are still a hurdle during the regular season IMO, especially when you got a bunch of them in (up for debate) DbC, Strome, Kubalik, Gustafsson, Schmaltz.
I'm not sure how motivated Kane and Toews were at that point, and then you had Colliton for a bit who might be the worst coach ever.
When they go on to go on deep playoff runs with their new team, do we call it the Kessel Run?