Speculation: Are Matthews and Marner Choke Artists in Playoffs?

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Mathews got paid $290 000 per goal this season
Which is nuts but
Marner got paid $605 000 per goal

let that sink in

You get paid for production, not just goals. Marner is overpaid, but to just talk about goals, that's silly. Marner is an elite.. REGULAR SEASON, setup guy... if somehow he could play in the playoffs, and put up that kind of production in the playoffs, and this team was winning series, nobody complains. But, he can't produce when it counts.
 
You get paid for production, not just goals. Marner is overpaid, but to just talk about goals, that's silly. Marner is an elite.. REGULAR SEASON, setup guy... if somehow he could play in the playoffs, and put up that kind of production in the playoffs, and this team was winning series, nobody complains. But, he can't produce when it counts.
So your argument is that you agree with me

Good one Randy!
 
The sad thing is Auston Matthews was really strong in Games 2-4 even if the offense dried up in the 24 hour back to back Games 3 and 4. That happens but he still hit, played hard, had the attention to details and most importantly, the Leafs won. Really looked like he could take the next level and be a serious playoff performer at a consistent level. All he had to do was more of what he did in Game 2 and it would be on to the next round and new territory, new challenges and new chapter in his career. Then at the moment where redemption and victory was within grasp he just looked over at Mitch Marner and said "I'll have what he's having" and flushed an entire year's worth of progress away.

That's what's so puzzling about the whole thing and adds to the disappointment. It's not like I can look back at the series and say they gave it everything they had but lost to the better team. They literally threw the series away by not playing anywhere close to their capabilities for most of the series (all of the series for Marner and half of it for Matthews anyway).
 
Dubas has been willing to make changes. He might try again with this team, but I equally believe that he might shake things up.
Dubas has been willing to make changes but only once made a move that required moving core/major pieces: Kadri.
After multiple playoff suspensions, it became blatantly obvious that moving him was necessary.

Tavares, Brodie: UFA Signing
Kerfoot (Kadri)
Foligno,Muzzin, (1sts)
Campbell (Moore, 2nds, 3rds)
-------------------------------------
Kapanen, Johnsson (picks prospects
Kessel (Kapanen, picks) made easier during a full rebuild

Willing to bet he keeps Rielly for his remaining year and then lets him walk for nothing instead of trading him now, recouping much needed picks/prospects and using his 5m cap elsewhere.
 
That's what's so puzzling about the whole thing and adds to the disappointment. It's not like I can look back at the series and say they gave it everything they had but lost to the better team. They literally threw the series away by not playing anywhere close to their capabilities for most of the series (all of the series for Marner and half of it for Matthews anyway).

Matthews literally played like he was out to redeem himself for a best of five series and then took the next three nights off...

But honestly, you could see the worrying signs in all the regular season nitpicks. How does a juggernaut not just destroy the Ottawa Senators or Vancouver Canucks or blow those leads or cough up a “nothing” game against the Jets knowing it could be possible they would meet up somewhere down the road? They talked about championship habits and honest they’d just turn off the switch some times. And you could see it coming.
 
He put together a good team, good enough to win. This isn't on Dubas, or even close. He's made plenty of good deals.

Sure, Brodie and Muzzin were great additions yes, Kerfoot ended up being decent only because Kadri got suspended again. What else did he do that was good?

Our prospect pool is now littered with the same type of player who will disappear in the playoffs

Its a bit of a cluster**** to say the least, but the analytics philosophy is shown to be meaningless when you can measure the heart and tenacity needed for playoff hockey.
 
It's not that he wasn't good enough, it's that he isn't good enough.

The fact that he says it’s his goal is to be the best player on the ice is his whole problem. At his best he’s the high energy underdog who is capable of breaking through with jaw dropping plays in selective moments. He’s not Wayne Gretzky and what gets him into trouble is carrying on as if he was.
 
What is it with these two and producing in the playoffs? It drives me absolutely bonkers seeing the other superstar forwards of the league score like gangbusters throughout their frequent long playoff runs whille these guys go home in round 1 with mediocre (at best) numbers.

Just look at the list of the highest producers in the last four regular seasons combined and how they've done in the playoffs:

PlayerRS PPGPO GPPO PPGDiffNotes
McDavid1.5281.637.2Includes wide open play-in series (which he lost)
Kucherov1.36521.25-8.1
MacKinnon1.3381.4713.1
Draisaitl1.2981.387.0Includes wide open play-in series (which he lost)
Marchand1.26561.04-17.5
Panarin1.19191.05-11.8
Kane1.1691-13.8Small sample includes play-in series but guy has always been a PO beast
Malkin1.16210.81-30.2Has mailed it in a little recently, but dude has nothing left to prove
Crosby1.16261.04-10.3Includes his last great playoff (2018), downhill since then
Pastrnak1.14531.11-2.6
Matthews1.12260.73-34.8
Rantanen1.12381.2612.5
Stamkos1.11290.93-16.2A historically poor playoff performer, yet still looks much better than the Leafs
Marner1.07260.81-24.3
Barkov1.06101.13.8
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
There are caveats and excuses associated with a few of these players, but for the most part, every player on this list approaches their regular season scoring rate. Matthews' -34% is unacceptable. Marner's -24.3% is inexcusable. This happens to everyone - Crosby, Malkin, Yzerman, Sakic,but when their 20 year careers are over you can forgive them for their 2-3 worst playoffs when they gave so much otherwise. In this case, it's now five years into their careers and this is the only playoff sample they have thus far. Yes they are chokers.

If there was a league-wide trend where star players' scoring plummeted drastically and role players took more of a center stage in the muck, then that would be understandable. But these other guys aren't having the same problems! I'm honestly just jealous about whatever it is players like Kucherov, MacKinnon, Marchand, and Pastrnak have that allows them to just score at will in the playoffs as though it's still the regular season.

What are they doing wrong? Do they need a psychologist? Why is it so easy for Matthews to score almost a goal per game in the regular season and then so difficult in the playoffs? What is he doing differently (or doing not differently?) Why is the opposition stopping him so easily when he was unstoppable before? Someone has to get to the bottom of this. This is disgusting.

edit: Are they just too predictable? In the regular season they seem to be creative enough, predictable enough to get a lot done - what changes in the playoffs? Back in 2008-2010, Ovechkin began to be criticized for being too predictable with his favourite play in the playoffs, and they were right - EVEN STILL, THE DUDE WON A PLAYOFF SERIES, AND MATCHED HIS REGULAR SEASON PPG WITH 40 POINTS IN 28 GAMES BEING TOO PREDICTABLE!
 
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Matthews literally played like he was out to redeem himself for a best of five series and then took the next three nights off...

But honestly, you could see the worrying signs in all the regular season nitpicks. How does a juggernaut not just destroy the Ottawa Senators or Vancouver Canucks or blow those leads or cough up a “nothing” game against the Jets knowing it could be possible they would meet up somewhere down the road? They talked about championship habits and honest they’d just turn off the switch some times. And you could see it coming.

I won't lie, after the first game I was thinking we were done. After game 4 I thought the Leafs in 5 prediction I made before the series would come to fruition. And yet here we are again.
 
I forgot him, but lets hope it wasn't just a fluke year.
Your point still stands though. Hes never made a tough trade (a core piece) other than Kadri who essentially had to be moved because of salary and boneheaded suspensions.
 
The fact that he says it’s his goal is to be the best player on the ice is his whole problem. At his best he’s the high energy underdog who is capable of breaking through with jaw dropping plays in selective moments. He’s not Wayne Gretzky and what gets him into trouble is carrying on as if he was.

Yup and the coach not recognizing that it wasn't gonna happen and still playing him 25 min a game.
 
Matthews looked fine honestly, the last 2 games it is between the ears...I don't have a lot of worry about him, he should see now what he needs to work on in the off-season.

Marner however just doesn't have a style of play conducive to playoff hockey, and frequently is trying to do too much.
It stops working when the speed and physicality pick up, especially with an aggressive opposing forecheck, he looked outmatched.
 
What are they doing wrong? Do they need a psychologist? Why is it so easy for Matthews to score almost a goal per game in the regular season and then so difficult in the playoffs? What is he doing differently (or doing not differently?) Why is the opposition stopping him so easily when he was unstoppable before? Someone has to get to the bottom of this. This is disgusting.

Dude. They don't care. So why do you? This is why I say "the joke's on the fans"
 

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