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Speculation: Are Matthews and Marner Choke Artists in Playoffs?

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Stephen said:
Matthews literally played like he was out to redeem himself for a best of five series and then took the next three nights off...

But honestly, you could see the worrying signs in all the regular season nitpicks. How does a juggernaut not just destroy the Ottawa Senators or Vancouver Canucks or blow those leads or cough up a “nothing” game against the Jets knowing it could be possible they would meet up somewhere down the road? They talked about championship habits and honest they’d just turn off the switch some times. And you could see it coming.
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The Habits we're there in the regular season. What you're talking about is basically what Edmonton did in dominating the lower tiers.
 
Menzinger said:
the funny thing is seemingly Nylander has learned.from his experience s and finally figured out what it took to be a top player in the post season.

Marner and to a lesser extent Matthews both regressed in that regard. They have nothing to blame but themselves
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Well you heard Nylander. He said he knows how it feels to lose and wants to be on the opposite side of that. He figured it out. I know Matthews and Marner also don't want to lose, but unfortunately they either haven't figured out what it takes to win, or they're just guys who can't get it done in the playoffs. Lots of players like that across all sports who just fold in the big moments. Can't get too mad at them if they are just incapable of playing when the bright lights come on, I just wish Dubas knew that before handicapping the team with those contracts.
 
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Gallagbi said:
The Habits we're there in the regular season. What you're talking about is basically what Edmonton did in dominating the lower tiers.
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If you want to be a juggernaut in the Colorado class which we clearly are not, you have to dominate or want to dominate every time you’re on the ice. They always let teams off the hook. Didn’t take them seriously. Couldn’t beat a team coming off Covid. Those are serious psychological warning signs and it all came true when it mattered. They don’t have championship habits.
 
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sxvnert said:
Tavares was the first who started that train. Sure they didn't have to offer him that massive contract but the rest followed his lead once he signed that ink.
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That is reasonable too. Tbh I wish they did a proper rebuild and didn’t accelerate it thinking they were ready to compete. I wish they didn’t trade for Boyle and a few other scrubs, I wish they didn’t sign Tavares as it destroyed team balance and led to a money chasing competition, I wish they traded JVR and Bozak at the deadline when their contract was expiring being reasonable enough to know the team won’t win the cup.

The Muzzin trade was fine. So was Kadri trade just didn’t work out.
The management got greedy as hell and they are paying the price now.

Imagine a team with Marner at 7 mil, Matthews at 9 mil Nylander at 6 mil no Tavares who was just as useless for the Leafs in the post season as the rest of the team. He’s no hero. As the team matures and comes into their own the Leafs start adding key pieces and developing their own. They don’t force Sandin and Liljegren in the A and let their game grow in the NHL and both are ready by now instead of constantly playing Marincin.

Imagine the leverage we’d have with the cap as we would NOW be ready to compete not a few years ago.

Yet when I said we were rushing the rebuild a few years ago against Washington everyone was drinking the koolaid and dreaming of going all the way. This fanbase sucks honestly and the management takes on the attitude of the fanbase.
 
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Stephen said:
Matthews literally played like he was out to redeem himself for a best of five series and then took the next three nights off...

But honestly, you could see the worrying signs in all the regular season nitpicks. How does a juggernaut not just destroy the Ottawa Senators or Vancouver Canucks or blow those leads or cough up a “nothing” game against the Jets knowing it could be possible they would meet up somewhere down the road? They talked about championship habits and honest they’d just turn off the switch some times. And you could see it coming.
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The thing is, that covers the Leafs PERIOD since around... 1995, maybe? It's been a long time since I can remember them not reflexively playing down to their opponents.
 
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killer1980 said:
No they aren't chokes. They are regular season performers who aren't built for the playoffs.
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Lol most definitely choke artists....we blew a 3-1 series lead, and failed to score a goal in the 1st/2nd periods for games 5-6-7

Matthew's 3goals in his last 12playoff games, straight trash....Pasta beat his goal total in one game.

Let's be honest, our top goal scorer couldn't do anything...and we expect everyone else to score including our playmaker Mitch lollol
 
Stephen said:
Matthews literally played like he was out to redeem himself for a best of five series and then took the next three nights off...

But honestly, you could see the worrying signs in all the regular season nitpicks. How does a juggernaut not just destroy the Ottawa Senators or Vancouver Canucks or blow those leads or cough up a “nothing” game against the Jets knowing it could be possible they would meet up somewhere down the road? They talked about championship habits and honest they’d just turn off the switch some times. And you could see it coming.
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Or go back a little further, blow a 3 goal lead in a bubble play in game, or lose to a Zamboni driver or........need I go on. This team is built so wrong.
 
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Fogelhund said:
You get paid for production, not just goals. Marner is overpaid, but to just talk about goals, that's silly. Marner is an elite.. REGULAR SEASON, setup guy... if somehow he could play in the playoffs, and put up that kind of production in the playoffs, and this team was winning series, nobody complains. But, he can't produce when it counts.
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Our multi-million dollar stars have a habit of disappearing in the playoffs.
 
ruaware41 said:
That is reasonable too. Tbh I wish they did a proper rebuild and didn’t accelerate it thinking they were ready to compete. I wish they didn’t trade for Boyle and a few other scrubs, I wish they didn’t sign Tavares as it destroyed team balance and led to a money chasing competition, I wish they traded JVR and Bozak at the deadline when their contract was expiring being reasonable enough to know the team won’t win the cup.

The Muzzin trade was fine. So was Kadri trade just didn’t work out.
The management got greedy as hell and they are paying the price now.

Imagine a team with Marner at 7 mil, Matthews at 9 mil Nylander at 6 mil no Tavares who was just as useless for the Leafs in the post season as the rest of the team. He’s no hero. As the team matures and comes into their own the Leafs start adding key pieces and developing their own. They don’t force Sandin and Liljegren in the A and let their game grow in the NHL and both are ready by now instead of constantly playing Marincin.

Imagine the leverage we’d have with the cap as we would NOW be ready to compete not a few years ago.

Yet when I said we were rushing the rebuild a few years ago against Washington everyone was drinking the koolaid and dreaming of going all the way. This fanbase sucks honestly and the management takes on the attitude of the fanbase.
Click to expand...
Completely agree with you
 
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ruaware41 said:
That is reasonable too. Tbh I wish they did a proper rebuild and didn’t accelerate it thinking they were ready to compete. I wish they didn’t trade for Boyle and a few other scrubs, I wish they didn’t sign Tavares as it destroyed team balance and led to a money chasing competition, I wish they traded JVR and Bozak at the deadline when their contract was expiring being reasonable enough to know the team won’t win the cup.

The Muzzin trade was fine. So was Kadri trade just didn’t work out.
The management got greedy as hell and they are paying the price now.

Imagine a team with Marner at 7 mil, Matthews at 9 mil Nylander at 6 mil no Tavares who was just as useless for the Leafs in the post season as the rest of the team. He’s no hero. As the team matures and comes into their own the Leafs start adding key pieces and developing their own. They don’t force Sandin and Liljegren in the A and let their game grow in the NHL and both are ready by now instead of constantly playing Marincin.

Imagine the leverage we’d have with the cap as we would NOW be ready to compete not a few years ago.

Yet when I said we were rushing the rebuild a few years ago against Washington everyone was drinking the koolaid and dreaming of going all the way. This fanbase sucks honestly and the management takes on the attitude of the fanbase.
Click to expand...
I don't see how Matthews signs for 9 when McDavid, who he was comparing himself to (rightly or wrongly), got 12.5mil. Matthews camp wanted more than McDavid. So no way Mitch signs for 7. I guess we just trade them then. I don't mind the Matthews price, Marner is wack though.
 
sittler rules!!! said:
Been sayin this for 3 years. But all the Mitchie fans yelled me down like an angry mob. This team is built wrong.
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Don’t worry I got the same treatment to you don’t know what you’re talking about Mitch Marner is the best thing since sliced bread lmao
 
Diatonic said:
Our multi-million dollar stars have a habit of disappearing in the playoffs.
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Weird thing is, only in the last couple of years. Before that, you could count on at least one of them to show up (Mitch during the first Boston series, Auston during the second). Seems like since Keefe got here and put them together, they've both started disappearing during the playoffs. Maybe it's because having them both on the same line makes it much easier to shut them down?
 
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Lightsol said:
Weird thing is, only in the last couple of years. Before that, you could count on at least one of them to show up (Mitch during the first Boston series, Auston during the second). Seems like since Keefe got here and put them together, they've both started disappearing during the playoffs. Maybe it's because having them both on the same line makes it much easier to shut them down?
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If Elite players are shut down that easy, that isn't on the coaching, it's on the players.
 
sittler rules!!! said:
I don't think Marner is tradeable at this point. Teams now see him for what he is . Maybe leave him unprotected and HOPE Seattle takes him.
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i thought you had wisdom???

There are a host of franchises that are in "just get us into the POs" mode , surely one of those team might has interest.
 
Faltorvo said:
i thought you had wisdom???

There are a host of franchises that are in "just get us into the POs" mode , surely one of those team might has interest.
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I wonder though, with that price tag. Options are small. Question: Do you continue to flounder keeping Marner and that contract, or do you cut your losses and move on? Keeping Marner, who is in NO WAY worth 11 M, and keeping Matthews who really does not want to be in T.O.
Cut your losses now and move on.
 
Its got to be tough being a Leafs fan right now, and over reaction is expected, but I wouldn't be so quick to blow things up.
Playoff hockey is a different animal. Teams try to shut down the oppositions top players. It is critical that teams get scoring from their secondary players. Maybe Keefe could have mixed up the lines to move some of the offensive talent around? Tough to say for sure.
I do think one of the big contracts will have to be moved. The return might not be what you might like, but the Leafs sure could use a shut down D and some more depth.
Oh, forgot to mention, get rid of Dubas.
You guys have a good team. Be patient. When it happens it will be that much sweeter.
 
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