OT: Anything Goes 40

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kaners Bald Spot

Registered User
Dec 6, 2011
22,704
10,812
Kane County, IL
I think mental health is actually the biggest issue facing this country right now. Because it doesn't just cause shit like this to happen. It's at the root of most of the problems in this country right now. Most of the far right in this country, and the Qanon followers, are mentally unwell. We have unhinged politicians running amok. There are so many clearly sick, unhinged individuals among us, it's terrifying. Then you add easy access to firearms to the equation...

And yes, it's way too easy to buy weapons. Someone needs to come up with some baseline psychological tests to administer before you're able to purchase a firearm, at a minimum.
It's not a mental health issue. It's a culture issue. American culture is rotten to its core.

This is what you get when toxic hyperindividualism is a virtue.

Americans, as a group, care about nobody but themselves. If it doesn't affect them they don't care and don't want to pay for it.
 
Last edited:

southsideIrish

Registered User
Nov 23, 2019
1,587
824
One of Saturn's moons
Haha, yeah, after. Im not saying that is even remotely in the cards. Was more just responding to this part "If guns were 100% outlawed sick people or criminals would find them anyway or find other ways to kill, like deliberately driving a vehicle into a crowd of people."
Just like drugs are 100% outlawed right? And nobody dies from drugs or the violence, etc. associated with it right?

Year to date in Chicago, that's not even five months, we've had 1,143 "official" shootings and 235 homicides, not counting the dozens more still under investigation. Where was the grandstanding, speeches, flag lowering and so on for those deaths and the hundreds more to come this year? Why are those ignored by the media and politicians? But a mass shooting will get major coverage?

And yes, these sickos will find ways to kill regardless of whether they legally or illegally buy guns or not. I can find in five minutes online how to make a homemade explosive. If they can't get a gun they'll find another way.

And like others have said, good luck getting them completely outlawed. If it was going to happen it would have by now.
 

TLEH

Pronounced T-Lay
Feb 28, 2015
21,629
18,652
Bomoseen, Vermont
Just like drugs are 100% outlawed right? And nobody dies from drugs or the violence, etc. associated with it right?

Year to date in Chicago, that's not even five months, we've had 1,143 "official" shootings and 235 homicides, not counting the dozens more still under investigation. Where was the grandstanding, speeches, flag lowering and so on for those deaths and the hundreds more to come this year? Why are those ignored by the media and politicians? But a mass shooting will get major coverage?

And yes, these sickos will find ways to kill regardless of whether they legally or illegally buy guns or not. I can find in five minutes online how to make a homemade explosive. If they can't get a gun they'll find another way.

And like others have said, good luck getting them completely outlawed. If it was going to happen it would have by now.
This argument is so tiring because of course you can find other ways to kill people en masse. You can fly a plane into a building! and how would you fix that?? Oh by changing the entire world.

& the guns pour into Chicago from other states. Almost like you need stiffer regulations federally. Stiffer penalties (I Understand that is a sticking point in Chicago, I am on board with that).

I think a mass shooting of elementary school kids at school should get major coverage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CourtneyDagger50

Putt Pirate

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 15, 2015
5,452
3,258
I am a gun owner and I think there needs to be something done. I have no problem doing whatever it takes to be safe. But I think the way these kids acquire guns needs to be looked at. As it seems the parents don't have gun safes, etc. which I do and I don't even have kids. There needs to be some way to have a minimum of safe storage either at house or at a gun club if you have children.

But the mental health aspect is compounding things. People urbanized and seem to have less care for life and lack of parenting, support, etc. There is a lot at play but keeping the guns out of children hands needs to be first and foremost.

We used to have our hunting guns in our trucks at HS because we would hunt after school. Nobody ever thought of pulling a gun on someone....you fought with your fists and took your beatings. Kids are often raised with entitlement that is imposed by the parents....like the baby cured cancer or something. Raise them to lear how to respect others would be a nice start rather than adults respecting the little kids if you get my slant. It is totally backwoards with most parents.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,768
22,703
Chicago 'Burbs
I am a gun owner and I think there needs to be something done. I have no problem doing whatever it takes to be safe. But I think the way these kids acquire guns needs to be looked at. As it seems the parents don't have gun safes, etc. which I do and I don't even have kids. There needs to be some way to have a minimum of safe storage either at house or at a gun club if you have children.

But the mental health aspect is compounding things. People urbanized and seem to have less care for life and lack of parenting, support, etc. There is a lot at play but keeping the guns out of children hands needs to be first and foremost.

We used to have our hunting guns in our trucks at HS because we would hunt after school. Nobody ever thought of pulling a gun on someone....you fought with your fists and took your beatings. Kids are often raised with entitlement that is imposed by the parents....like the baby cured cancer or something. Raise them to lear how to respect others would be a nice start rather than adults respecting the little kids if you get my slant. It is totally backwoards with most parents.

There are laws in Illinois that guns have to be locked up and secured in homes with children. Anyone who breaks that law is liable for anything that happens as a result of said guns not being secured. They can be charged with numerous crimes. Not all states have these laws, but they all should.

Cant see how we can have a true conversation on this forum given politics, etc involved but will say



For all the talk of do something

Kim Foxx and her office have routinely declined or downgraded charges for people with extensive criminal and weapons history and even when NRA supported a 1 yr mandatory minimum in Illinois it was blocked by congressional black caucus of Illinois and progressives for years

Most murders in this country come from type of violence we experience here in Chicago and other big cities not mass shootings like what happened in Texas. Foxx and DA's in major counties around country routinely don't prosecute repeat gun criminals or give slaps on wrist

Almost every shooter in Chicago has prior history of arrests including illegal guns or having gun as felon

If people are serious about reducing gun violence that means passing tougher laws and removing power from DA's like Foxx and forcing mandatory minimums (3-5 years would be good start) and other measures for illegal gun arrests and crimes
Kim Foxx is one of the biggest pieces of shit that has ever existed, and I'm pretty sure about 99.9% of Illinois residents are aware of this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pez68 and Mrfenn92

Putt Pirate

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 15, 2015
5,452
3,258
There are laws in Illinois that guns have to be locked up and secured in homes with children. Anyone who breaks that law is liable for anything that happens as a result of said guns not being secured. They can be charged with numerous crimes. Not all states have these laws, but they all should.


Kim Foxx is one of the biggest pieces of shit that has ever existed, and I'm pretty sure about 99.9% of Illinois residents are aware of this.
1000% agree with this.
 

hawksfan50

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
14,508
2,083
Ironically Zucjerberg's Facebook bots FAILED to flag andxwarn police of thecshoiter's intentions...It would have been too late to save the shooter from shouting his grandmother . BUT it could have immediately warnedvpokice of his plan to leave his house and gobtobtge school to shoot ibuprofen. He had posted his plan first to shoot his grandmother then he played he had shot her then he posted his plan to go tobtgecschool and shoot it up.


So how simple woukdbit be for tge Facebook A.I. threat detecting analyzer not to find this developing situation =I MMEDIATELy and getca message to police to stop this shooter before he got to the school?

It coukd have been detected in real time ...yet Zucketberg clearly does not have this system in place for Facebook when it is s o easy to detect a developing situation online as soon as a crazy person posyscsuchvevil intent...you simply search alk the Facebook entries going on in real time for key word danger signals.. like "guns" "rifle or rifles" ,"shoit" or "school" o "r kids"" or " chikdren"...


It does not takexa genius to come up with anAnI. Program that can piece these words together into a dangercsignal tgat requires warning to the closest police force in a potential shooter's area.

Tge fact Facebook did not warn when such a detecting system shoukd be in place messages me wonder if the families of the dead kids and teachers should sue Facebook for negligence in not havibgvtheitcA.I. system set up to do such warnings.this

Clearly we have the technology to identify potential threats in reK-time on social media ifvonkyvthe social media companies invest in the A.I. programs to identify these threats as they occur .

It is 2 thing notvto know the kickers intention before he kids...butcwhen he tells this social media platform in real time as he is about to proceed with his killing spree and the police are not notified by tge social media company clearly they are deficient in tgeir duty to protect thise in society .

T o this extent,Zuckerberg has blood on his hands...could have prevented the school shoitvup if Only Facebook had bothered to set up such a real rine warning system.

Itvshoujd also be directly connected to tge anbercalertcsystens to everyone's cell phones...so tgat people on a potential ensuing shoot up between a crazy and weird police can take cover.

Tgerevus no excuse for this.. we have alk tge technology available to do it...butvckrarkyvZicjerber did not care enough to bother to invest a few dollars to set up his A I monitoring properly to allow such real-time warning..
It is a shame.
 

x Tame Impala

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2011
28,783
13,801
^^^
The Fiddy-ness of that post aside, I wish people took a stance against Zuckerberg and collectively removed themselves from at least Facebook, if not Instagram as well.

Zuckerberg assumes ZERO responsibility for anything and isn’t accountable to anyone. He is a sociopathic megalomaniac and we as a society made a huge mistake giving him the keys to our online social interactions. It’s been a complete toxic disaster whenever something more important than sharing photos of your baby has been involved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Putt Pirate

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,768
22,703
Chicago 'Burbs
^^^
The Fiddy-ness of that post aside, I wish people took a stance against Zuckerberg and collectively removed themselves from at least Facebook, if not Instagram as well.

Zuckerberg assumes ZERO responsibility for anything and isn’t accountable to anyone. He is a sociopathic megalomaniac and we as a society made a huge mistake giving him the keys to our online social interactions. It’s been a complete toxic disaster whenever something more important than sharing photos of your baby has been involved.

This is generally true for all of the uber-rich. Not a fan of Zuck. Just sayin.

Facebook is toxic, though. It gives a voice to every dumb f*** in the world who shouldn't have a voice.
 

CallMeShaft

Registered User
Apr 14, 2014
16,343
22,848
All I ever got out of using Facebook is a $400 check.

It's usefulness past that is roughly zero for me.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,768
22,703
Chicago 'Burbs
All I ever got out of using Facebook is a $400 check.

It's usefulness past that is roughly zero for me.

Me and the wife took a hiatus from it for like 9 years. We got back more recently, and at this point I only use it for the groups for fishing, whiskey, beer, etc. Oh, and for invites for parties and such, since everyone does all their invites for everything on FB now, rather than sending actual invites for events.
 

x Tame Impala

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2011
28,783
13,801
Last post while i'm on my soap box..


Father of victim says he holds school, police responsible for the massacre​

Jacinto Cazares, the father of Jacklyn Jaylen Cazares, a 10-year-old killed in the Texas elementary school shooting, told ABC News he blames the school and police for the massacre, not the murder weapons.

"I want to say we hold the school responsible for not having locked doors and no protocol, no training. Also the Police for not having a better and faster tactical response time. There was at least 40 lawmen armed to the teeth, but didn't do a darn thing till it was far too late," Cazares told ABC News in a statement.

He added, "The situation could've been over quick if they had better tactical training and we as a community witnessed it first hand. I'm a gun owner and I do not blame the weapons used in this tragedy. I'm angry how easy it is to get one and young you can be to purchase one."

This is the response that so many Americans feel is appropriate. The United States of America can't protect it's own children and it's a travesty. Thinking there should just be more security protocols in place to stop this is backwards. Thinking if we watched over people's mental health more effectively is backwards.

The problem is that people can very easily purchase weapons that lets them murder dozens of innocents. This kid legally bought two AR platform rifles at 18 years old. There is no sensible basis for this being allowed in our society.The only solution is to make this no longer possible.

I don't like gun owners, they've made a hobby out of it all and now there's a whole culture backed by a $13.5 BILLION yearly revenue stream. Get a pistol to protect your family from home invaders but under no circumstances should it be possible to own tactical weapons with sights and semi-automatic modes. You people are crazy if you feel like your safety is in that much jeopardy. Which is extra ironic because most of the people i know with all of these guns live in the suburbs in a quiet subdivision where nothing is ever going to happen to them. Yet they live in fear everyday that an intruder is going to break in and murder their family. Meanwhile there are shootings constantly in chicago and i don't think i know anyone who owns a gun.

I know people that live in Naperville, Aurora, and Plainfield who have a CCL and will seriously walk into grocery stores or restaurants with their strapped glock because they want to protect themselves in case something ever happens. What a f***ing joke.

Children are dying and this is going to happen for a very long time until major changes are made. Whatever basis for your constitutional right to own arms is is bunk when we prove time and time again that we cannot guarantee the safety of innocents. I don't think you're entitled to walk around with something that puts people in such immediate danger. The only people who should be able to do that are police officers and our military. People's insane insecurities about protecting themselves from a tyrannical government are no longer good enough to justify this rampant gun culture.

We as a nation can't responsibly handle guns so people should not be entitled to own one. Simple as that.
This is generally true for all of the uber-rich. Not a fan of Zuck. Just sayin.

Facebook is toxic, though. It gives a voice to every dumb f*** in the world who shouldn't have a voice.
True, but i listened to a podcast with Zuckerberg speaking where he was directly asked if he felt Facebook was responsible for the various political turmoil and division in America and he shrugged it off as no big deal.
 

Kaners Bald Spot

Registered User
Dec 6, 2011
22,704
10,812
Kane County, IL
There's a direct correlation between violent crime and poverty. Desperate people do desperate things.

It's not a coincidence that the more wealth is concentrated in a given area, the lower the crime rate.

We need more high paying jobs, and if that's not possible, UBI and price controls.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,768
22,703
Chicago 'Burbs
Last post while i'm on my soap box..



This is the response that so many Americans feel is appropriate. The United States of America can't protect it's own children and it's a travesty. Thinking there should just be more security protocols in place to stop this is backwards. Thinking if we watched over people's mental health more effectively is backwards.

The problem is that people can very easily purchase weapons that lets them murder dozens of innocents. This kid legally bought two AR platform rifles at 18 years old. There is no sensible basis for this being allowed in our society.The only solution is to make this no longer possible.

I don't like gun owners, they've made a hobby out of it all and now there's a whole culture backed by a $13.5 BILLION yearly revenue stream. Get a pistol to protect your family from home invaders but under no circumstances should it be possible to own tactical weapons with sights and semi-automatic modes. You people are crazy if you feel like your safety is in that much jeopardy. Which is extra ironic because most of the people i know with all of these guns live in the suburbs in a quiet subdivision where nothing is ever going to happen to them. Yet they live in fear everyday that an intruder is going to break in and murder their family. Meanwhile there are shootings constantly in chicago and i don't think i know anyone who owns a gun.

I know people that live in Naperville, Aurora, and Plainfield who have a CCL and will seriously walk into grocery stores or restaurants with their strapped glock because they want to protect themselves in case something ever happens. What a f***ing joke.

Children are dying and this is going to happen for a very long time until major changes are made. Whatever basis for your constitutional right to own arms is is bunk when we prove time and time again that we cannot guarantee the safety of innocents. I don't think you're entitled to walk around with something that puts people in such immediate danger. The only people who should be able to do that are police officers and our military. People's insane insecurities about protecting themselves from a tyrannical government are no longer good enough to justify this rampant gun culture.


True, but i listened to a podcast with Zuckerberg speaking where he was directly asked if he felt Facebook was responsible for the various political turmoil and division in America and he shrugged it off as no big deal.

I won't really get into the arguments of "tactical weapons" with "sights and semi-automatic modes" too much. Just to inform you on a couple things, though. I can put a scope or a red dot sight on a pistol. I can put a scope and/or a red dot sight on any rifle used for hunting. And I can do just as much damage with either one that I can do with an AR platform rifle. And about 99.9% of the pistols you're ok with people having to protect their home, are semi-automatic. Which simply means that you have to pull the trigger each time you want to fire a round, without having to cock a hammer back each time. That's all semi-automatic is/means. Hell, many shotguns are even semi-automatic now.

I also have my CCL and live in Bolingbrook, so I guess add me to your list. Personally, I'd rather have something and never need it, than not have it, and need it. I live my life that way in just about every aspect of it. You should see me pack for a vacation, camping trip, fishing trip, etc. Just my opinion.

And walking around with a handgun doesn't put anyone in "immediate danger" when it comes to CCL holders. Those with a carry permit are among the most responsible gun owners you'll ever find. There is zero danger to anyone around me when I'm walking around carrying one of my concealed weapons, and the same can pretty much be said of most CCL holding people. Hell, not a single person will ever even recognize the fact that I have it, so how is it an immediate danger?

Now I'm with you on being able to purchase AR platform rifles at young ages, without a ton of scrutiny, background checks, mental health checks, and education on safe firearm ownership/use. But where do you draw the line? Someone who is 18 can go serve in our military and die for our freedoms(and many do just that), but they can't own a gun if they choose? They can't even have a beer if they want one? The problem with the young age thing is that you have to start looking into what age constitutes an adult then. You have to start looking into what age someone can enlist in the military, then. You're opening a whole different can of worms, then. I'm ok with someone who is 18 being able to purchase specific firearms, but make it much harder to do so with appropriate, common sense gun laws.

The age thing is a complicated situation, IMO.

There's a lot more to all of this than just "get rid of all the guns". And to be clear, that will never happen in this country, so we probably need to start coming up with better gun laws.
 
Last edited:

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,768
22,703
Chicago 'Burbs
Are you suggesting that the US has a significantly higher percentage of mentally ill people than the rest of the world?
I don't think I saw him say that anywhere...

Your post was nonsensical, IMO. You used a f***ing paint roller to touch up a scratch the size of piece of hair. The massive exaggeration in your generalizing the entire population was absolutely ridiculous man.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pez68 and Mrfenn92

Kaners Bald Spot

Registered User
Dec 6, 2011
22,704
10,812
Kane County, IL
I don't think I saw him say that anywhere...

Your post was nonsensical, IMO. You used a f***ing paint roller to touch up a scratch the size of piece of hair. The massive exaggeration in your generalizing the entire population was absolutely ridiculous man.
There are plenty of decent individuals in this country but the culture is completely f***ed.

For example:
The way we've turned workism into a religion; worship of CEOs as great people rather than the sociopaths they are.
The insane way we value property and profits over human lives
The way we try to force our values onto other people
The fact that we, as a society, turn minor inconveniences that can save others lives into a holy war on personal freedom.
The fact that we worship at the altar of the myth of personal responsibility(in terms of finances/job opportunities)
The fact that we're so quick to judge other people before knowing the whole story.
The fact that nobody is allowed to f*** up and grow as a person anymore before being publicly shamed for it.
 
Last edited:

x Tame Impala

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2011
28,783
13,801
I won't really get into the arguments of "tactical weapons" with "sights and semi-automatic modes" too much. Just to inform you on a couple things, though. I can put a scope or a red dot sight on a pistol. I can put a scope and/or a red dot sight on any rifle used for hunting. And I can do just as much damage with either one that I can do with an AR platform rifle. And about 99.9% of the pistols you're ok with people having to protect their home, are semi-automatic. Which simply means that you have to pull the trigger each time you want to fire a round, without having to cock a hammer back each time. That's all semi-automatic is/means. Hell, many shotguns are even semi-automatic now.
All love from me in this post man, you know that. When i say "you" in this reply I don't mean you specifically as human, just you as a gun owner.

I'm aware you can put RDS on pistols. I've seen them. I've used them at ranges. They're super effective for accuracy and precision. I'm aware of what semi-auto means and i know that pistols are semi auto by and large.

This kid bough two platform ARs. Which is something along the lines of this...

iu


It makes no sense whatsoever for that to be a legal purchase for a non-military/police citizen. This is an incredibly powerful weapon that you can kill a lot of people with very quickly. I've been to the range about 5-6 times now and everyime I go I ALWAYS see people who have these. There's no reason whatsoever to have that much firepower available for anyone who doesn't yet have a criminal record or documented instances of dangerous mental instability. That's not for protecting your family from a burglar, owning that gun is for mass destruction and people are lying to themselves at the cost of children's lives if they believe anything else.
I also have my CCL and live in Bolingbrook, so I guess add me to your list. Personally, I'd rather have something and never need it, than not have it, and need it. I live my life that way in just about every aspect of it. You should see me pack for a vacation, camping trip, fishing trip, etc. Just my opinion.
Fundamentally i don't believe you're entitled to protect yourself to that degree out in the world. We don't live in Rwanda. We live in a free society under rule of law. Feeling the need to protect yourself to that level shouldn't even be an option. We should be living in a world above needing to justify our safety by carrying murder weapons. Who do you think you are and what danger are you realistically going to be in to ever justify that level of entitlement? (don't take that personally please my friend). It comes at a cost of innocent lives because the exact same pathways that allow you to responsibly own a gun let people irresponsibly own them as well. There is no distinction between the two if we're not capable of eliminating these dangers.
And walking around with a handgun doesn't put anyone in "immediate danger". Those with a carry permit are among the most responsible gun owners you'll ever find. There is zero danger to anyone around me when I'm walking around carrying one of my concealed weapons, and the same can pretty much be said of most CCL holding people. Hell, not a single person will ever even recognize the fact that I have it, so how is it an immediate danger?
I'm not comfortable leaving that up to your discretion. By bringing a weapon with you when you go to Home Depot or whatever you're inherently creating a situation with a non-zero chance of you using your gun. Maybe you are responsible and are in full control of your decision making, but i'm not going to bet my life that you are. I shouldn't have to. You are not capable of knowing how a situation is going to unfold before it does. Assholes can have CCL's too. What if i'm walking around that Home Depot with my wife and someone with a CCL makes a sexual comment or shoves her? Now we have a situation on our hands where i need to be aggressive and depending on the circumstances i'd want to beat this hypothetical carrier's face in. Well now he has a gun and it's invariably involved in our altercation. People get in fights in parking lots all the time. Road rage happens all the time. Bar fights happen all the time. You should not have the power to decide if you're going to shoot someone or not. Under any circumstances. That's not a country i want to live in. I don't care about your sense of safety, it's completely absurd that people feel entitled to that level of protection.
Now I'm with you on being able to purchase AR platform rifles at young ages, without a ton of scrutiny, background checks, mental health checks, and education on safe firearm ownership/use. But where do you draw the line? Someone who is 18 can go serve in our military and die for our freedoms(and many do just that), but they can't own a gun if they choose? They can't even have a beer if they want one? The problem with the young age thing is that you have to start looking into what age constitutes an adult then. You have to start looking into what age someone can enlist in the military, then. You're opening a whole different can of worms, then. I'm ok with someone who is 18 being able to purchase specific firearms, but make it much harder to do so with appropriate, common sense gun laws
What magical level of background checks are gun-advocates expecting here? You all seem to be throwing that solution into the mix but never have specifics. The most relevant check-mark I've heard so far is that if you have a history of domestic violence then you are far more likely to have repeat violent behavior (I don't have the link to back it up). Ok, that's a good start but how would checking for that have prevented this kid from killing 19 4th graders? He had no registered mental health issues. His juvenile criminal record is still being checked from what i read.

So what are we supposed to test for and who is supposed to test it? Are gunshop owners going to bear that burden? Probably not and definitely not responsibly if it means less sales for them. How about our slow as a turtle-paced politicians? Unlikely and considering their predilection for lobbies and their money I won't hold my breath that this will be resolved quickly or effectively. How thorough and expert will the test guidelines be? Making acute mental health predictions has not yet proven to be possible by world leaders in the field. When i hear this argument all i really hear is "I'm normal and i want to own guns still so someone should really figure this out". It's a non-answer.

There's a lot more to all of this than just "get rid of all the guns". And to be clear, that will never happen in this country, so we probably need to start coming up with better gun laws.
Case in point: "We probably need to start coming up with better gun laws" is removing yourself from accountability here. You're a gun owner who wants to keep owning guns regardless of how many children and innocent people are being slaughtered via the exact same means you acquired your weapons. While we wait for our politicians to figure it out people are dying.

Getting rid of guns is the solution. It's the only solution. There are too many people in this country to manage and there's a whole spectrum of mental health issues many Americans deal with. Legislating these mental health workarounds is an impossible task. The experiment is over, Americans cannot and should not be able to own guns as easily or to the extent they do now. There is no responsibility in this industry or from the consumers of it. Children are regularly dying because of it and we are failing them as adults and citizens of a free nation by allowing this to continue to happen. It's inexcusable.
 

Pez68

Registered User
Mar 18, 2010
19,442
27,199
Chicago, IL
Are you suggesting that the US has a significantly higher percentage of mentally ill people than the rest of the world?

A significantly higher percentage? Not sure. But the United States is a bottom 3-5 country in the entire world, when it comes to almost every mental illness that exists. APD(which is what leads to these mass shootings), depression, anxiety... you name it. Isn't it obvious, just looking around you how unwell we are?
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,768
22,703
Chicago 'Burbs
There are plenty of decent individuals in this country but the culture is completely f***ed.

For example:
The way we've workism into a religion; worship of CEOs as great people rather than the sociopaths they are.
The insane way we value property and profits over human lives
The way we try to force our values onto other people
The fact that we, as a society, turn minor inconveniences that can save others lives into a holy war on personal freedom.
The fact that we worship at the altar of the myth of personal responsibility(in terms of finances/job opportunities)
The fact that we're so quick to judge other people before knowing the whole story.
The fact that nobody is allowed to f*** up and grow as a person anymore before being publicly shamed for it.

A lot of this is literally just your personal observations, that I can tell you, without a shred of doubt, are biased based upon your own experiences. Some have merit. Some are just nonsense.

1: Who the hell worships CEOs? Lol. Most people I know despise any and all executives. Workism is ridiculous, no doubt, but "worship of CEOs" is nonsense, and irrelevant to that first part, and just detracts from a valid point.
2: Some value property and profits over people's lives. That's true. Generalizing EVERYONE with that statement... is nonsense.
3: The way we try to force our values onto other people? Who? Who is forcing values on who? Nutcases trying to force values on other nutcases... is about all I actually see with regularity.
4: The gun thing, I'm assuming? I'd say "holy war" is a bit strong... lol. The majority of people that are pro-gun, believe in common sense laws governing the rights surrounding them. "Gun nuts" are not the majority.
5: I know this is your bias talking here. We don't agree on it. Never have. Sure, do some people have a disadvantage when it comes to some things finance/job related? Of course. We don't live in a perfect society, and there will never be a perfect society, as you'd have to take the human element entirely out of things. But I'm sorry, for the vast majority of people, if you bust your ass, work hard, and are responsible, then you can make something of yourself. At least have a quality life. I'm so f***ing sick of people whining that they can't do something. Personal responsibility is necessary in most instances. You can't keep blaming the world for all your issues. Sometimes it pays to look in a mirror and reflect. I'm not speaking specifically about you, but I'm talking about "you" as in people in the general sense. There are most definitely people that inherit disadvantages, and I'm not arguing against those. There are legitimate concerns for some. I'm talking about the whiny ass suburban kid who got a bullshit degree just to say he has one, spent most of college drunk, and complains that he doesn't have a $100k/year job the second he walks off the stage with a diploma. I busted my ass to get where I'm at, and to have what I have. Others can do the same. Part of the issue is ridoculous entitlement, and everyone expecting handouts, without having to work for anything.
6: Who is quick to judge people before knowing the whole story? This is literally something YOU'RE guilty of, if I remember right. I'm about 99.9% positive you're actually guilty of this in more than one instance, and it's verifiable based upon data right on this site.
7: Who isn't allowed to f*** up and grow as a person at risk of public shaming? Celebrities? Pro athletes? I'd say 99.9% of people in the world will NEVER be publicly shamed for something. Lol.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mrfenn92

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,768
22,703
Chicago 'Burbs
All love from me in this post man, you know that. When i say "you" in this reply I don't mean you specifically as human, just you as a gun owner.

I'm aware you can put RDS on pistols. I've seen them. I've used them at ranges. They're super effective for accuracy and precision. I'm aware of what semi-auto means and i know that pistols are semi auto by and large.

This kid bough two platform ARs. Which is something along the lines of this...

iu


It makes no sense whatsoever for that to be a legal purchase for a non-military/police citizen. This is an incredibly powerful weapon that you can kill a lot of people with very quickly. I've been to the range about 5-6 times now and everyime I go I ALWAYS see people who have these. There's no reason whatsoever to have that much firepower available for anyone who doesn't yet have a criminal record or documented instances of dangerous mental instability. That's not for protecting your family from a burglar, owning that gun is for mass destruction and people are lying to themselves at the cost of children's lives if they believe anything else.

Fundamentally i don't believe you're entitled to protect yourself to that degree out in the world. We don't live in Rwanda. We live in a free society under rule of law. Feeling the need to protect yourself to that level shouldn't even be an option. We should be living in a world above needing to justify our safety by carrying murder weapons. Who do you think you are and what danger are you realistically going to be in to ever justify that level of entitlement? (don't take that personally please my friend). It comes at a cost of innocent lives because the exact same pathways that allow you to responsibly own a gun let people irresponsibly own them as well. There is no distinction between the two if we're not capable of eliminating these dangers.

I'm not comfortable leaving that up to your discretion. By bringing a weapon with you when you go to Home Depot or whatever you're inherently creating a situation with a non-zero chance of you using your gun. Maybe you are responsible and are in full control of your decision making, but i'm not going to bet my life that you are. I shouldn't have to. You are not capable of knowing how a situation is going to unfold before it does. Assholes can have CCL's too. What if i'm walking around that Home Depot with my wife and someone with a CCL makes a sexual comment or shoves her? Now we have a situation on our hands where i need to be aggressive and depending on the circumstances i'd want to beat this hypothetical carrier's face in. Well now he has a gun and it's invariably involved in our altercation. People get in fights in parking lots all the time. Road rage happens all the time. Bar fights happen all the time. You should not have the power to decide if you're going to shoot someone or not. Under any circumstances. That's not a country i want to live in. I don't care about your sense of safety, it's completely absurd that people feel entitled to that level of protection.

What magical level of background checks are gun-advocates expecting here? You all seem to be throwing that solution into the mix but never have specifics. The most relevant check-mark I've heard so far is that if you have a history of domestic violence then you are far more likely to have repeat violent behavior (I don't have the link to back it up). Ok, that's a good start but how would checking for that have prevented this kid from killing 19 4th graders? He had no registered mental health issues. His juvenile criminal record is still being checked from what i read.

So what are we supposed to test for and who is supposed to test it? Are gunshop owners going to bear that burden? Probably not and definitely not responsibly if it means less sales for them. How about our slow as a turtle-paced politicians? Unlikely and considering their predilection for lobbies and their money I won't hold my breath that this will be resolved quickly or effectively. How thorough and expert will the test guidelines be? Making acute mental health predictions has not yet proven to be possible by world leaders in the field. When i hear this argument all i really hear is "I'm normal and i want to own guns still so someone should really figure this out". It's a non-answer.


Case in point: "We probably need to start coming up with better gun laws" is removing yourself from accountability here. You're a gun owner who wants to keep owning guns regardless of how many children and innocent people are being slaughtered via the exact same means you acquired your weapons. While we wait for our politicians to figure it out people are dying.

Getting rid of guns is the solution. It's the only solution. There are too many people in this country to manage and there's a whole spectrum of mental health issues many Americans deal with. Legislating these mental health workarounds is an impossible task. The experiment is over, Americans cannot and should not be able to own guns as easily or to the extent they do now. There is no responsibility in this industry or from the consumers of it. Children are regularly dying because of it and we are failing them as adults and citizens of a free nation by allowing this to continue to happen. It's inexcusable.

Lots to unpack here and discuss. Don't have the time right this second to respond, but I'll try to at some point soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: x Tame Impala
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad