Anyone else concerned about Tavares?

[Stephen]

Fans of the team like to discuss a players performance. Why do you find that so strange? Seems pretty normal.

Especially when the quality of the actual play is somewhat poor relative to the players status, contract and this years expectations. At least we have the stats and production.

 

[Stephen]

Tavares shouldn't centre either of the top 2 lines. Either he needs to move over for O'Reilly on the 2nd line, or drop to the 3rd line as centre.

Tavares and Nylander together are also too much famine to make up for the occasional feast game when then both play well. I really think Nylander needs to play up with Matthews, at least when it's a home game and Keefe could counter Tampa with O'Reilly-Marner to get favorable ice time for Nylander - Matthews.

I think he should have a ball hockey duo with ROR and maybe slap a Sam Lafferty on there to do the speed work. You got two guys with brains and hands but no feet and one guy with feet but no hands or brains. That can be your 2A line.

Nylander needs to be separated from Tavares forever. Put him on his own 2B line and maybe consider running the offense a la 5 man unit with Rielly on D and Nylander as the primary offensive drivers.

Leave Matthews and Marner together to do their good work.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I didn't say that at all. Don't misrepresent the things that people say. You cherry picked one stat (5v5 goals) and a specific player that you knew would draw a reaction (Engvall) to misrepresent Tavares, and I merely expanded on that and pointed out how Engvall compared to other top-tier players to expose your faulty logic.

That's what you said, but I know you'll keep changing things slightly and doubling down on your mistakes until people stop wasting their time trying to discuss anything with you, so I won't play your game.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Tavares is okay...I think you get more out of him with Marner at his side.

I think they'll also need to give him a lot of offensive zone starts against the Bolts.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That's what you said

It's not what I said, and you're well aware it's not what I said.
You initiated a conversation with me, and for some reason, started talking about the number of 5v5 goals Engvall had, in an attempt to downplay and misrepresent Tavares.
I pointed out how misleading that was, and named a bunch of top-tier players with similar 5v5 goal totals to show you how ridiculous the premise of your argument was.
Then, after avoiding my response, you attempted to lie about what I said to another individual, and incorrectly claimed that I had said that Tavares was better than those players, when that very clearly wasn't said or suggested in any way.

In fact, you were the one attempting to evaluate players based exclusively on their 5v5 goal total. Tavares only would have been better than those players based on the bad logic you were using. It's pretty obvious that I wasn't arguing that Tavares was better than those players when I was literally the one pointing out to you how ridiculous that logic was.

 

[Blaylock38]

Nope not at all. These games are meaningless. If he goes scoreless in the playoffs, than I will be concerned for him especially going into next year.

 

[bossram]

Tavares needs more insulation as he can't carry a line. I would probably run with the "pick your poison" lineup Keefe has been somewhat experimenting with, and spread Matthews, Nylander, and Marner across three lines.

Kerfoot - Matthews - Jarnkrok
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Nylander - ROR - Lafferty
ZAR - Kampf - Acciari

Make Cooper have to adjust. I think in recent playoffs, Keefe has been guilty of overcoaching.

 

[LeafsNation149]

Fans of the team like to discuss a players performance. Why do you find that so strange? Seems pretty normal.

Discussing performance is one thing. Acting like the sky is falling is another.

Leafs fans are extreme with every loss and look for a whipping boy every season. This literally goes back all the way to 2013 when Leafs lost in playoffs and Reimer and his family got death threats from the fanbase. The pressure is so high here and fans look for perfection in a meaningless regular season game its something you'll see mainly on the Leafs board. Yes it happens with other fanbases but its a much lessor extent.

Open any PGT after a loss and you'd think the Leafs have sub .500 record. The usual "Goaltending sucks" or "Rielly sucks" or "Tavares is a bum", "Fire Dubas" Etc.

Tavares has been a PPG player throughout his career. He's going to have stretches where he doesn't score. He's also going to have stretches where he looks unstoppable. He is the Leafs 2nd line C and is producing at a PPG pace this season. He has 11 points in his last 9 games yet there's a thread on the boards talking about his play being concerning in meaningless games lol, again, only Leafs fans.

 

[Gilmour1996]

I guess next time I go on a road trip through other provinces I should just put up with any bad food or accomodations and not bitch to the establishments. After all, all that matters is that things are good at the final destination, lol. (NOT! The journey is important too)

 

[Gallagbi]

I guess next time I go on a road trip through other provinces I should just put up with any bad food or accomodations and not bitch to the establishments. After all, all that matters is that things are good at the final destination, lol. (NOT! The journey is important too)

Isnt this season all about the destination? I could have sworn that was the sentiment all year - arguably even longer

 

[ACC1224]

Discussing performance is one thing. Acting like the sky is falling is another.

Leafs fans are extreme with every loss and look for a whipping boy every season. This literally goes back all the way to 2013 when Leafs lost in playoffs and Reimer and his family got death threats from the fanbase. The pressure is so high here and fans look for perfection in a meaningless regular season game its something you'll see mainly on the Leafs board. Yes it happens with other fanbases but its a much lessor extent.

Open any PGT after a loss and you'd think the Leafs have sub .500 record. The usual "Goaltending sucks" or "Rielly sucks" or "Tavares is a bum", "Fire Dubas" Etc.

Tavares has been a PPG player throughout his career. He's going to have stretches where he doesn't score. He's also going to have stretches where he looks unstoppable. He is the Leafs 2nd line C and is producing at a PPG pace this season. He has 11 points in his last 9 games yet there's a thread on the boards talking about his play being concerning in meaningless games lol, again, only Leafs fans.

I think you’re confusing overreaction with simple discussion. Of course you’ll always have the extreme crazies on either side.
Probably should just get use to it. It’s doubtful it will change.

IMO passing games off as meaningless and belittling others that don’t is really no better.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

He’s a good player on a good team.
He signed for fair market value at the time and like a sundin seems to be able to keep the exact same production about ppg as he ages.

The cap without a pandemic should have been about 95 million by now. It made sense then

He is probably 2.5 overpaid for now….. but willie is about 2.5 underpaid.

Not the end of the world.

Re: The bolded: There is absolutely no proof this would have happened and frankly it's DDC nonsense. Seattle came in, league revenue didn't peak as you guys predicted. Bally Sports Sports channels are going out of business soon, and this big NBC contract you guys have been predicting didn't happen.

Just stop with the misinformation.

The only reason anyone cares about his performance is cap

If he made 1 million would this thread exist?

Well, the reality is the NHL has a salary cap, and he doesn't make merely $1 million. How is your post an argument at all?

 

[Stephen]

Discussing performance is one thing. Acting like the sky is falling is another.

Leafs fans are extreme with every loss and look for a whipping boy every season. This literally goes back all the way to 2013 when Leafs lost in playoffs and Reimer and his family got death threats from the fanbase. The pressure is so high here and fans look for perfection in a meaningless regular season game its something you'll see mainly on the Leafs board. Yes it happens with other fanbases but its a much lessor extent.

Open any PGT after a loss and you'd think the Leafs have sub .500 record. The usual "Goaltending sucks" or "Rielly sucks" or "Tavares is a bum", "Fire Dubas" Etc.

Tavares has been a PPG player throughout his career. He's going to have stretches where he doesn't score. He's also going to have stretches where he looks unstoppable. He is the Leafs 2nd line C and is producing at a PPG pace this season. He has 11 points in his last 9 games yet there's a thread on the boards talking about his play being concerning in meaningless games lol, again, only Leafs fans.

You can defend John Tavares without taking down Leafs fans who are critical of his play.

 

[frizzer1]

He’s been a minus player most of his career.
He is terrible 5 on 5 and even on the pp when he handles the puck he usually turns it over.
He can score on rebounds and tips on the pp and that’s it.

 

[Legion34]

Re: The bolded: There is absolutely no proof this would have happened and frankly it's DDC nonsense. Seattle came in, league revenue didn't peak as you guys predicted. Bally Sports Sports channels are going out of business soon, and this big NBC contract you guys have been predicting didn't happen.

Just stop with the misinformation.


Well, the reality is the NHL has a salary cap, and he doesn't make merely $1 million. How is your post an argument at all?

It’s literally projected to go to 93-95 in 2 years.

It was supposed to be 86.5 in 2020 before the world stopped. That’s pre escalator.

 

[Nineteen67]

Discussing performance is one thing. Acting like the sky is falling is another.

Leafs fans are extreme with every loss and look for a whipping boy every season. This literally goes back all the way to 2013 when Leafs lost in playoffs and Reimer and his family got death threats from the fanbase. The pressure is so high here and fans look for perfection in a meaningless regular season game its something you'll see mainly on the Leafs board. Yes it happens with other fanbases but its a much lessor extent.

Open any PGT after a loss and you'd think the Leafs have sub .500 record. The usual "Goaltending sucks" or "Rielly sucks" or "Tavares is a bum", "Fire Dubas" Etc.

Tavares has been a PPG player throughout his career. He's going to have stretches where he doesn't score. He's also going to have stretches where he looks unstoppable. He is the Leafs 2nd line C and is producing at a PPG pace this season. He has 11 points in his last 9 games yet there's a thread on the boards talking about his play being concerning in meaningless games lol, again, only Leafs fans.

Meaningless? They’re a hiccup away from losing home ice.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Tavares is ranked 79th in even strength production and has a top 5 cap hit in the league.

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View attachment 680935

That is absolutely concerning. Even more concerning is how the coaching staff completely disregards tavares' putrid 5 on 5 play and coddles him.

Any competent coach would not put his superstars with tavares in teh playoffs and waste their minutes

Jarnkrok-Matthews-Nylander
Bunting-ROR-Marner (put this line against opposition's top line)
Kerfoot-Tavares-Acciari (speed up the wings who can protect Tavares' slow behind)
ZAR-Kampf-Lafferty

Tavares should be on the wing. Period.

 

[shaner82]

I don't know how anyone wouldn't be concerned about him. He's the type of guy that will get points on a somewhat regular basis, but does he really do enough to help us win when he's out there? Against weaker competition, sure. Against other teams top lines? No, I think he hurts us more than helps us.

He definitely needs Marner, needs to be on the wing and/or should be on the 3rd line.

 

[AvroArrow]

Only reason we're having discussion is because of his contract. He's obviously not worth 11M, but still a line 1C on a lot of teams in the league.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Tavares needs more insulation as he can't carry a line. I would probably run with the "pick your poison" lineup Keefe has been somewhat experimenting with, and spread Matthews, Nylander, and Marner across three lines.

Kerfoot - Matthews - Jarnkrok
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Nylander - ROR - Lafferty
ZAR - Kampf - Acciari

Make Cooper have to adjust. I think in recent playoffs, Keefe has been guilty of overcoaching.

JT & Marner makes sense but seeing Kerfoot on the first line makes me gag

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

He’s a good player on a good team.
He signed for fair market value at the time and like a sundin seems to be able to keep the exact same production about ppg as he ages.

Age 36 Sundin was a better player than Tavares is now. Good luck with that.

 

[bossram]

JT & Marner makes sense but seeing Kerfoot on the first line makes me gag

The short-lived Kerfoot-Matthews-Jarnkrok line was effective.

Kerfoot is a useful player. His plus defensive value also allows this unit to go head-to-head with TB's top line, giving softer matchups to JT/Marner and ROR/Nylander.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Literally a PP goal when the concern is 5v5...literally


Problem with this is that JT is so goddamn slow that he completely negates any speed his wingers have. You see how it slows Willie's game down considerably...not sure what to do with him 5v5 but yeah he may be due for 3rd line duty

How about:
Bunting Matthews Marner
JT ROR J-Krok
Kerfoot Nylander Lafferty
ZAR Kampf Acciari

Gives JT a matching speed guy to play with in ROR & a puck hound in J-Krok
Moving Nylander to centre, but in title only. He has proven his elite zone entry skills. Give him two speedy wingers who are puck hounds and more D supportive.
Y>ou could even flip J-Krok & Lafferty to give the Willie line a little more punch, while not diminishing the puck hound aspect on the JT line.
Try Kneis out with 34 and 16. He should be able to play with Marner.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

This is fine....nothing to fret about

 

[Drytoast]

I'm deeply concerned about being concerned over your concerns.