Proposal: Anson Carter: Marner for Rantanen

[hamzarocks]

Avs could win this trade, when Marner realizes how much easier it is to perform outside Toronto.

So you're telling me if we move Toronto Maple Leafs to Markham/Richmond Hill we would be a dynasty....

Plan the parade... in the suburbs this time

 

[MikeC]

During the 1st intermission of VGK/COL, Carter proposed Rantanen for Marner. Thoughts? Good value? Who says no?

Contracts:

Mikko Rantanen: 1 year - 9.25 million (UFA)
Mitch Marner: 1 year - 10.9 million (UFA)

If the Avs trade Rantanen one day they need a way better return

 

[hamzarocks]

Marner is the more complete player. One of the best Pkers in the league, Selke finalist as a winger, plays all situations and key moments often being the best player on his line.

Keep in mind, we are talking about two of the leagues best superstars here. Neither is bad. We're debating the margins here. I feel Marner impacts other areas of the game more, like a Stone type winger who also is able to put up superstar offensive stats despite playing in defense first systems.

I see no reason to take Marner over rantanen. Rantanen is much better in playoffs, has been higher production player in 22/23 and 23/24 and still is at the moment now. Has played Center for stints and been productive.

You take the big bodied winger who gives ~45G and 60A over the smaller winger who gives ~30G and 70A with the playoffs being in the Rantanens favour

league wide wingers

Tier 1:

Kucherov
Kaprizov
Pastranak
Rantanen

Tier 2:

Tkachuck
Marner
Nylander
Panarin
Reinhart

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

Can't see the Avs doing this.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I see no reason to take Marner over rantanen. Rantanen is much better in playoffs, has been higher production player in 22/23 and 23/24 and still is at the moment now. Has played Center for stints and been productive.

You take the big bodied winger who gives ~45G and 60A over the smaller winger who gives ~30G and 70A with the playoffs being in the Rantanens favour

league wide wingers

Tier 1:

Kucherov
Kaprizov
Pastranak
Rantanen

Tier 2:

Tkachuck
Marner
Nylander
Panarin
Reinhart

I mean, look at the difference in systems. Avs are terrible defensively and play a rush game you would expect scoring to be higher.

 

[LOFIN]

I mean, look at the difference in systems. Avs are terrible defensively and play a rush game you would expect scoring to be higher.

Based on what metric? The Avs have been one of the better teams defensively for many years now.

Avs also don't play rush game. They can certainly play from the rush, but their offensive zone time is among the highest in the league. Only Carolina has a higher O-zone percentage in fact.

 

[hamzarocks]

I mean, look at the difference in systems. Avs are terrible defensively and play a rush game you would expect scoring to be higher.

Leafs havent been a good defensive system for more than 20 games this year.

We played the same rush/offense heavy system with Keefe for 5 years and marner wasnt outproducing Rantanen then either.

Marner needs to outproduce Rantanen sizably/significant amount to make up for the playoff production gap and he isnt capabpe of doing that.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

I’ll take the cup winner over someone who hasn’t seen game 6 of Round 2

Honestly if the Blackhawks offered Bedard for Landeskog if he comes back I’d take that if I’m Colorado I know guys like Landy, Nuke, Towes, etc won the cup but Bedard is a generational talent. People on the site are ridiculous saying ANY player who has won a cup has more value than Bedard or even a guy like Dahlin

 

[benfranklin]

Marner is the more complete player. One of the best Pkers in the league, Selke finalist as a winger, plays all situations and key moments often being the best player on his line.

Keep in mind, we are talking about two of the leagues best superstars here. Neither is bad. We're debating the margins here. I feel Marner impacts other areas of the game more, like a Stone type winger who also is able to put up superstar offensive stats despite playing in defense first systems.

Apples to oranges I suppose. I'll give you the 22-23 Selke votes because those are a big deal and tough to quantify in value. Same with playing the PK. That obviously brings value assuming the PK is solid.

Were comparing a 30-60-90 player to a 40-60-100/50-50-100 player. Does the defensive game make up the difference in the offensive game? Maybe, but at best IMO you can argue they're even overall and more often than not, the tie breaker will go to offensive production.

And sadly not to beat a dead horse, but playoff production is there. Career .87 and losing vs 1.24 and won.

Honestly if the Blackhawks offered Bedard for Landeskog if he comes back I’d take that if I’m Colorado I know guys like Landy, Nuke, Towes, etc won the cup but Bedard is a generational talent. People on the site are ridiculous saying ANY player who has won a cup has more value than Bedard or even a guy like Dahlin

Obviously context matters, but if two players are very similar, the edge goes to playoff production. Bedard and Dahlin also arent fair examples since they havent made the playoffs. Marner has been there 8 years in a row now.

 

[Doubledose]

As a Toronto fan .. what do we add? This won't happen 1-1

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Apples to oranges I suppose. I'll give you the 22-23 Selke votes because those are a big deal and tough to quantify in value. Same with playing the PK. That obviously brings value assuming the PK is solid.

Were comparing a 30-60-90 player to a 40-60-100/50-50-100 player. Does the defensive game make up the difference in the offensive game? Maybe, but at best IMO you can argue they're even overall and more often than not, the tie breaker will go to offensive production.

And sadly not to beat a dead horse, but playoff production is there. Career .87 and losing vs 1.24 and won.


Obviously context matters, but if two players are very similar, the edge goes to playoff production. Bedard and Dahlin also arent fair examples since they havent made the playoffs. Marner has been there 8 years in a row now.

Well that doesn’t make sense? Dahlin has been in the league 3 years less and hasn’t even played 1 game. How is that resume better than Marners? Maybe Brady Tkachuk vs Nichuskinin? Tage Thompson vs Devon Towes, Dylan Larkin vs Landeskog. Great players are great players and team success should play no part in a discussion imo. Put Nathan MacKinnon right now on the worst team in the OHL. Even with him scoring 5 points a night that team is so bad they aren’t going anywhere in playoffs.

 

[LOFIN]

Well that doesn’t make sense? Dahlin has been in the league 3 years less and hasn’t even played 1 game. How is that resume better than Marners? Maybe Brady Tkachuk vs Nichuskinin? Tage Thompson vs Devon Towes, Dylan Larkin vs Landeskog. Great players are great players and team success should play no part in a discussion imo. Put Nathan MacKinnon right now on the worst team in the OHL. Even with him scoring 5 points a night that team is so bad they aren’t going anywhere in playoffs.

When talking about Marner and Rantanen, it's not the fact that the Avs have won and the Leafs have failed. It's about the fact that Marner drops his point production by 0.24 PPG when the playoffs start, while Rantanen elevates his by 0.16 PGG.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

When talking about Marner and Rantanen, it's not the fact that the Avs have won and the Leafs have failed. It's about the fact that Marner drops his point production by 0.24 PPG when the playoffs start, while Rantanen elevates his by 0.16 PGG.

See that’s a fair point but the original post I replied to was dumb that’s all I’m saying. Lots of great players on brutal teams in any league.

 

[belair]

I don't think I'd do it from the Leafs' perspective.

Marner is a bit of a love-hate player due to the underperforming in the postseason, but that's historically been a team issue. Rantanen doesn't solve the top heavy roster issue and he's not really adding anything that's missing on the Leafs' roster.

Leafs just need to bite the bullet and find a reasonable long term cap number for Marner.

 

[Leafs87]

What’s the point? Both UFAs. Switching rentals just cause?

 

[LOFIN]

I don't think I'd do it from the Leafs' perspective.

Marner is a bit of a love-hate player due to the underperforming in the postseason, but that's historically been a team issue. Rantanen doesn't solve the top heavy roster issue and he's not really adding anything that's missing on the Leafs' roster.

Leafs just need to bite the bullet and find a reasonable long term cap number for Marner.

This is an absolute pure fantasy trade that makes zero sense (and it was just a fantasy idea on the broadcast as well), but let's assume that the players don't have a say (Marner has a NMC, Rantanen 16 team NTC).

Toronto does this in a heart beat. Not only do they acquire arguably the better player regarding production, also a known playoff performer of which there are not too many in Toronto AND here's the biggest thing: around 1.7M extra in cap space.

Whatever happens after this season is pretty irrelevant. Both are UFAs, both are looking for a big contract. Arguably Rantanen should make more on the open market, but in all likelihood Marner is going to get the bigger deal if (when) both players stay on their respective teams.

 

[Dr Amazing]

The Avs probably resign Rantanen keep the goal scoring Marner is good but Rantanen is a proven champion.

 

[gritdash60]

Rantanen is just better and Leaves prolly wouldn't offer anything to sweeten the deal, so it will never happen.

 

[belair]

This is an absolute pure fantasy trade that makes zero sense (and it was just a fantasy idea on the broadcast as well), but let's assume that the players don't have a say (Marner has a NMC, Rantanen 16 team NTC).

Toronto does this in a heart beat. Not only do they acquire arguably the better player regarding production, also a known playoff performer of which there are not too many in Toronto AND here's the biggest thing: around 1.7M extra in cap space.

Whatever happens after this season is pretty irrelevant. Both are UFAs, both are looking for a big contract. Arguably Rantanen should make more on the open market, but in all likelihood Marner is going to get the bigger deal if (when) both players stay on their respective teams.

I don't think that they do knowing that Rantanen costs them more to extend. The production boost is marginal at best and he's an older player with quite a bit more mileage.

The Leafs, I'd imagine, would prefer the player who's likely to age better and give them more shots at winning a championship. This isn't a trade that's for just this year.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I don't think that they do knowing that Rantanen costs them more to extend. The production boost is marginal at best and he's an older player with quite a bit more mileage.

The Leafs, I'd imagine, would prefer the player who's likely to age better and give them more shots at winning a championship. This isn't a trade that's for just this year.

There's a 6 month difference in age...

 

[benfranklin]

Well that doesn’t make sense? Dahlin has been in the league 3 years less and hasn’t even played 1 game. How is that resume better than Marners? Maybe Brady Tkachuk vs Nichuskinin? Tage Thompson vs Devon Towes, Dylan Larkin vs Landeskog. Great players are great players and team success should play no part in a discussion imo. Put Nathan MacKinnon right now on the worst team in the OHL. Even with him scoring 5 points a night that team is so bad they aren’t going anywhere in playoffs.

Theyre all apples to oranges situations. Marner vs Rantanen is comparable because they are both first line wingers.

Sure trade Makar for McDavid. Toews for Thompson. Its a completely different conversation given different positions.

Dahlin vs Reilly for example is a thing. I think we would all agree Dahlin is the better player, but Reilly has some playoff experience so put whatever value on that you see fit.

Dahlin vs Heiskanen. Id take Heiskanen today because of his playoff experience.

I don't think that they do knowing that Rantanen costs them more to extend. The production boost is marginal at best and he's an older player with quite a bit more mileage.

The Leafs, I'd imagine, would prefer the player who's likely to age better and give them more shots at winning a championship. This isn't a trade that's for just this year.

lol dude look up ages before you start typing.

 

[LOFIN]

I don't think that they do knowing that Rantanen costs them more to extend. The production boost is marginal at best and he's an older player with quite a bit more mileage.

The Leafs, I'd imagine, would prefer the player who's likely to age better and give them more shots at winning a championship. This isn't a trade that's for just this year.

If you want to argue that Marner will age better, sure. But today, I would argue that at least 75% of the league (be it players, coaches or players) would take Rantanen ahead of Marner. Marner is better defensively, and does penalty kill. Rantanen is the better forward, it's as simple as that.

 

[Breakers]

TSN speculating 25% chance both make it to free agency

I’d put it at less than 10%

They have to make up the 8th year in free agency which can be a fools errand.

 

[belair]

There's a 6 month difference in age...

And an two extended playoff runs from a guy whose body is likelier to show wear heading into his 30s. That 6 months is an extra pro season over Marner.

If you want to argue that Marner will age better, sure. But today, I would argue that at least 75% of the league (be it players, coaches or players) would take Rantanen ahead of Marner. Marner is better defensively, and does penalty kill. Rantanen is the better forward, it's as simple as that.

And that suits the Leafs' needs better than Rantanen. That's the comment that I'm making.

The Leafs don't have any issues scoring goals. They need a more consistent third line and they need their special teams to click on the postseason.

Is Rantanen a more consistent scorer than Marner? Absolutely. Would he command more than Marner on the open market? Absolutely. Does it make sense for Toronto to swap them? Looking at how their roster is built, no, it doesn't.

 

[ole ole]

Marner is the more complete player. One of the best Pkers in the league, Selke finalist as a winger, plays all situations and key moments often being the best player on his line.

Keep in mind, we are talking about two of the leagues best superstars here. Neither is bad. We're debating the margins here. I feel Marner impacts other areas of the game more, like a Stone type winger who also is able to put up superstar offensive stats despite playing in defense first systems.

One player is a bit better during the regular season while the other is MUCH better during the playoffs. I know which one i would want more.