Post-Game Talk: Another week, another embarrassing loss

[budzz]

A whole lot of over-reactions in here. It was a stinky game, a few crappy bounces. Game 70 of 82 does not define our season. We are still 5th overall. Add Ror and Schenn to that game and things are a bit different (and jam their net a bit more their goalie was good).

Also I do like Lilly alot but come playoffs I would have Schenn in over him I think. Lilly and Gus out Schenn and TJ in and add Ror it's a whole different look.

Burn the tape and move on.

 

[geo25]

I'm the opposite. I dont think the Leafs will do much of anything in the playoffs this year, and I'm an optimist.

I do like Dubas and the long-term trajectory of the Leafs. I just think there's been too much turnover all at once without enough positive gain in talent.

I'm a believer in team-building, and I don't think a newly assembled collection of guys that is only slightly more or less better than the team they had before the TDL will cut it.

I think they over-steered the car this time.

I'm the opposite. I dont think the Leafs will do much of anything in the playoffs this year, and I'm an optimist.







I do like Dubas and the long-term trajectory of the Leafs. I just think there's been too much turnover all at once without enough positive gain in talent.







I'm a believer in team-building, and I don't think a newly assembled collection of guys that is only slightly more or less better than the team they had before the TDL will cut it.







I think they over-steered the car this

Not having ROR to mesh with a potential playoff line...stinks



I said after the deadline.... don't care about wins or losses, it's getting the team ready for gm1. I like the pieces on this team, but I'm having a hard time being happy with the whole lot...we haven't found a full-time gel.



If we stumble into the playoffs with questions about who plays where, who's starting, who's sitting...because of uncertainties, we're screwed.



Injuries happen and so does line jumbling. My only hope is Keefe finds what works ..and sticks with it.





I Think regardless of the team the Coach is the problem......

 

[geo25]

I don't think that would have done anything to be honest. Martin/Isles wanted Acciari







Matt Martin fought Chara like 3-4 times. Schenn wouldn't have deterred him















But Schenn needed to be dressed last game. That's the kind of game we brought him in for.







Really dont' know waht Keefe is thinking sometimes. He overcoaches. Thinking maybe if we go with a lot of skill, we can throw away Is









Keefe is in over his head. Have ZERO confidence in him....he needs to GO.

 

[egd27]

There are no shortcuts.

Not even $11M UFA's ? huh, imagine that.

 

[Ciao]

Who would be this goalie they could have gotten?
If one of the 4 was moved Jarnkrok would still be in the top 6.
Wouldn't replacing one of the 4 with Meier pretty much be the same thing?

I agree. Moving one of the top-four forwards out for Timo Meier would really accomplish nothing -- unless it were Tavares for Meier which can't be done.

Realistically, the Leafs need to do whatever it takes to keep Matthews and Marner. Nylander might need to move on, and Tavares will be here until the end of his contract and maybe longer at a much lower cap hit.

The pieces will move as they always do, and the work continues.

I just don't think the Leafs are nearly there yet, and neither do I think that it's time to throw in the towel with these players and this management group.

Building a champion isn't easy.

 

[Al14]

Our Leafs have just a dozen games left till the playoffs.

It's probably past time to decide on your defense pairings. It's time Keefe stopped using the blender to allow pairings to gel together.

I was a surprised., and a little angered, to see Gustafsson playing instead of Schenn. Schenn could use a few more games as a Leaf before the playoffs IMHO. Besides that, the Islanders are exactly the type of team you NEED Schenn in the game.

With it being so close to the playoffs, it's time that our Leafs start taking the games seriously. They need to STOP the glaring turnovers and start playing more mistake free hockey.

Our goalie situation now really scares me. We have Murray a hangnail away from another injury, and now, we'll have Samsonov distracted by living with a new born baby. It does not bode well for having great goaltending!!!

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I agree. Moving one of the top-four forwards out for Timo Meier would really accomplish nothing -- unless it were Tavares for Meier which can't be done.

Realistically, the Leafs need to do whatever it takes to keep Matthews and Marner. Nylander might need to move on, and Tavares will be here until the end of his contract and maybe longer at a much lower cap hit.

The pieces will move as they always do, and the work continues.

I just don't think the Leafs are nearly there yet, and neither do I think that it's time to throw in the towel with these players and this management group.

Building a champion isn't easy.

I agree. You don’t throw in the towel with elite talent. Washington stuck with Ovi and Backstrom till they won. Under no circumstances do we trade Marner. He wants to win and is a great overall player. Matthews is elite when healthy. Unfortunately can’t trade Tavares cause he’s the one that should go. Nylander along with the coach will be the casualties if we’re out the first round.

 

[Carltons Cup]

Funny because we've all seen this script and meltdown

Funny how?

 

[AvroArrow]

Quenneville did the same exact thing with hawks with 3 stanley cup... hbegore chicago incident became public was considerated like maybe the best coach in the world... keefe using the same strategy is trash and overthinking

Cooper using 11-7 is a fantastic coach but keefe using the same strategy because he having a lot of great D.. hes trash

Yesterday was not about system, it was individual mistake and pay for everyone of those mistake

3 by liljegren
1 by kampf
one by marner/rielly

You add samsonov was weak... you've got this result but overall toronto was by far the best team first 40 minutes but trailed 3-1

We don't have Duncan Keith, Seabrook, and Brian Campbell on the blue line. They also had Kane/Toews/Sharp/Hossa/Byfuglien up front. Comparing this team to Chicago makes no sense, they were much stronger overall than us.

You gotta optimize what you have, we don't have a D core like those teams, our team is not built like either of those teams, it would be foolish to try the same thing as them. It's absolutely been about system, everyone is so confused since this experiment started. There's no consistency and with all the guys we added they didn't get a proper chance to actually build chemistry, they're all over the place.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Our Leafs have just a dozen games left till the playoffs.

It's probably past time to decide on your defense pairings. It's time Keefe stopped using the blender to allow pairings to gel together.

I was a surprised., and a little angered, to see Gustafsson playing instead of Schenn. Schenn could use a few more games as a Leaf before the playoffs IMHO. Besides that, the Islanders are exactly the type of team you NEED Schenn in the game.

With it being so close to the playoffs, it's time that our Leafs start taking the games seriously. They need to STOP the glaring turnovers and start playing more mistake free hockey.

Our goalie situation now really scares me. We have Murray a hangnail away from another injury, and now, we'll have Samsonov distracted by living with a new born baby. It does not bode well for having great goaltending!!!

Schenn not playing in a game like last night ( assuming he was healthy) is mind bogglingly stupid. Those wondering why most are complaining about Keefe need look no further than the 11/7 gambling and the management of our defence as reasons.

 

[Ciao]

Not even $11M UFA's ? huh, imagine that.

The Tavares contract is a problem, but at this point it's basically unmovable and is water under the bridge.

It deprives the Leafs of a lot of salary-cap flexibility that they could really use to improve the team, and at this point all they can do is manage around it, which they are doing.

Whether it was a wise move at the time the contract was signed is a whole other issue without a clear answer.

It was certainly very aggressive and perhaps short-sighted to lock themselves into a high-dollar long-term deal for an aging player, and this would also apply to other teams with other players such as Vancouver's Miller etc. There's plenty of reason to think it was a bad choice from the outset.

On the other hand, it might have been reasonable to think that the salary cap would rise over the life of the contract, making it more affordable in relative terms. I think also the inexperience of Leafs' management at the time may have lead them to be overly optimistic on the potential costs of re-signing their other star players, which certainly factors in the equation every bit as much as the stagnant salary cap. However, the Tavares signing did signal a commitment to winning, and it lent much needed credibility to the Leafs' franchise which had never been able to sign significant free agents, even among those from the GTA and Southern Ontario.

On the whole, it turned out to be a mistake, but it wasn't necessarily so from the outset.

Hopefully, once bitten, twice shy.

BTW -- I also have great discomfort with the constant trading of futures for TDL help. I don't think any of the players they've acquired are worth the price they've paid -- including O'Reilly and the whole lot of them. I would much rather see the Leafs continue to develop, getting better year-by-year until they are perennial champions. I don't think you do that this way.

 

[TMLAM34]

Has anyone heard a reason as to why Schenn didn’t play last night? Along with starting Samsonov when he obviously has his mind elsewhere, it was among the few perplexing coaching decisions.

Well when your best defensive defenceman is out with an injury, doesn’t it only make sense to replace him with a pure offensive defenceman who can only contribute on the PP instead of replacing him with another defensive defenceman that brings a physical element to the game?

Oh and doesn’t it also only make sense to start Samsonov who wasn’t at 100% not too long ago and clearly has his mind elsewhere right now instead of the goalie who basically got you the two points the previous game and who you’re trying to get back on track for the playoffs?

Common man, use your head a little!

 

[Suntouchable13]

A whole lot of over-reactions in here. It was a stinky game, a few crappy bounces. Game 70 of 82 does not define our season. We are still 5th overall. Add Ror and Schenn to that game and things are a bit different (and jam their net a bit more their goalie was good).

Also I do like Lilly alot but come playoffs I would have Schenn in over him I think. Lilly and Gus out Schenn and TJ in and add Ror it's a whole different look.

Burn the tape and move on.

I know, I know, but this is the same song and dance we have seen before with this team. Intensity ramps up, they fold. It’s not like this core has given us any reason for the benefit of the doubt. We will see how it goes 3 weeks from now, I guess.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Funny because we've all seen this script and meltdown

it's another line from the movie

Has anyone heard a reason as to why Schenn didn’t play last night? Along with starting Samsonov when he obviously has his mind elsewhere, it was among the few perplexing coaching decisions.

Keefe

 

[ShaneFalco]

You don’t throw in the towel with elite talent.

Elite talent doesn't fold every playoff series
There's no comparing the Leafs to any other team. Yeah but Washington took......TB took........ who cares. It's irrelevant. They've also won things in the past 2 decades....and more than just a round

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Well when your best defensive defenceman is out with an injury, doesn’t it only make sense to replace him with a pure offensive defenceman who can only contribute on the PP instead of replacing him with another defensive defenceman that brings a physical element to the game?

Oh and doesn’t it also only make sense to start Samsonov who wasn’t at 100% not too long ago and clearly has his mind elsewhere right now instead of the goalie who basically got you the two points the previous game and who you’re trying to get back on track for the playoffs?

Common man, use your head a little!

I don’t know what I was thinking….sorry

 

[Ciao]

I agree. You don’t throw in the towel with elite talent. Washington stuck with Ovi and Backstrom till they won. Under no circumstances do we trade Marner. He wants to win and is a great overall player. Matthews is elite when healthy. Unfortunately can’t trade Tavares cause he’s the one that should go. Nylander along with the coach will be the casualties if we’re out the first round.

The Leafs will probably have trouble signing Nylander when the time comes, anyway.

I expect William Nylander will be looking for money the Leafs can't afford.

His father, Michael, is very much wound up in William's contract negotiations along with his agent, his father's business partner, Lewis Gross.

Michael Nylander was well known during his own playing career for always going for top-dollar, and I expect the apple won't fall far from the tree.

Lewis Gross has been involved with let's just say very extended contract negotiations over the RFA signings of both Nylander and Sandin, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were difficult to reach a new deal.

 

[Ciao]

Well when your best defensive defenceman is out with an injury, doesn’t it only make sense to replace him with a pure offensive defenceman who can only contribute on the PP instead of replacing him with another defensive defenceman that brings a physical element to the game?

Oh and doesn’t it also only make sense to start Samsonov who wasn’t at 100% not too long ago and clearly has his mind elsewhere right now instead of the goalie who basically got you the two points the previous game and who you’re trying to get back on track for the playoffs?

Common man, use your head a little!

I wouldn't know what they were thinking either, but it's possible the coaching staff felt it was more important to see more of what they have in Gustafsson before the playoffs roll around than to scratch out a win that probably won't affect the standings.

It mystifies my as to why they acquired Gustafsson in the first place, but now that they have him it makes sense that they try to figure out if they have a role for him to play. I certainly don't see one.

Nick Nurse was hailed as a genius in the Raptors' championship year for trying out all possible combinations during the season, to give some advance knowledge of where he could go with his roster during the playoffs. Maybe Keefe is just trying to do the same thing.

Whatever it was, it didn't seem to work out, and I'm doubtful that Gustafsson will ever be of any use at all.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I wouldn't know what they were thinking either, but it's possible the coaching staff felt it was more important to see more of what they have in Gustafsson before the playoffs roll around than to scratch out a win that probably won't affect the standings.

It mystifies my as to why they acquired Gustafsson in the first place, but now that they have him it makes sense that they try to figure out if they have a role for him to play. I certainly don't see one.

Nick Nurse was hailed as a genius in the Raptors' championship year for trying out all possible combinations during the season, to give some advance knowledge of where he could go with his roster during the playoffs. Maybe Keefe is just trying to do the same thing.

Whatever it was, it didn't seem to work out, and I'm doubtful that Gustafsson will ever be of any use at all.

I don’t think the constant dickering with the lineup led to the championship. Nurse is a good coach who got very lucky in that championship season. A last second fortuitous bounce off the rim in the semis, and injuries to Durant and Green in the final helped the Raptors to that magical run. Masai also made a few truly key moves bringing in Kwahi, Ibaka, and Gasol. I wonder what would we think of him if that ball would have rimmed out?

Keefe is going to need a lot of luck (puck bouncing off the glass off the goalies head and in OT) and an injury to Vasi to equate with Nurse.

 

[Ciao]

I don’t think the constant dickering with the lineup led to the championship. Nurse is a good coach who got very lucky in that championship season. A last second fortuitous bounce off the rim in the semis, and injuries to Durant and Green in the final helped the Raptors to that magical run. Masai also made a few truly key moves bringing in Kwahi, Ibaka, and Gasol. I wonder what would we think of him if that ball would have rimmed out?

Keefe is going to need a lot of luck (puck bouncing off the glass off the goalies head and in OT) and an injury to Vasi to equate with Nurse.

No doubt about it -- that was good luck.

In the wave of adulation that followed, the pundits were still saying how smart and innovative Nurse was for having experimented with his line-up in advance. It beats me what effect that had, but that's what they were saying, that's all.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Honestly, I don't know if it's possible for us to win while JT is making 11m.

 

[notbias]

Honestly, I don't know if it's possible for us to win while JT is making 11m.

We have like 2 million in players overpaid... people need to stop complaining about this, it is offset by fair and good signings. Every team has overpaid players.

The Leafs will probably have trouble signing Nylander when the time comes, anyway.

I expect William Nylander will be looking for money the Leafs can't afford.

His father, Michael, is very much wound up in William's contract negotiations along with his agent, his father's business partner, Lewis Gross.

Michael Nylander was well known during his own playing career for always going for top-dollar, and I expect the apple won't fall far from the tree.

Lewis Gross has been involved with let's just say very extended contract negotiations over the RFA signings of both Nylander and Sandin, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were difficult to reach a new deal.

Pretty sure Sandin came out and said part of the reason for staying home longer was someone in his family had cancer.

 

[thusk]

We don't have Duncan Keith, Seabrook, and Brian Campbell on the blue line. They also had Kane/Toews/Sharp/Hossa/Byfuglien up front. Comparing this team to Chicago makes no sense, they were much stronger overall than us.

You gotta optimize what you have, we don't have a D core like those teams, our team is not built like either of those teams, it would be foolish to try the same thing as them. It's absolutely been about system, everyone is so confused since this experiment started. There's no consistency and with all the guys we added they didn't get a proper chance to actually build chemistry, they're all over the place.

Leafs dont have a keith, yes thats it... and the comparaison was how both shuffle their line...

One period kane player exemple with handzus and bickel, next period with toews and hossa, next period with sharp and handzus. Quenneville shuffle his line all the time, keefe doing the same thing with matthews, jt, marner and nylander...

leafs reaction : oh lord hes trash as a coach and dont even know what hes doing...

But yes they create chemistry together by being able to play with everyone in the line up in every kind of situation to give as much of possibilities to keefe come playoff time...

If you only stick with same line all the time with with 6 new player who step him... if someone get injured come playoff, thats just broking everything

Ror is an exemple, he missed time and his chemistry will not be as good... the fact leafs try matthews driving his own line with jarnkrok and kerfoot giving flexibility to keefe exemple by using ror with marner and bunting... and jt with nylander and lafferty if that didn't work, you had flexibility to move and try something else maybe using ror with nylander and lafferty or whatever... find what is gonna work because every ppayer would have learn to play a little bit with each other... same for dmen... thats why i think keefe strategy is the right one.. kind of flexibility didn't had against montreal by separing matthews and marner when jt and muzzin came down and probably cost the series...

 

[Sniper99]

Sane.

You know what team board this is right? Its far from that 365 days a year.. I didnt even flip this game on last night, watched a great basebal game instead. Had score updates goin on my phone. Yeeesshhh it wasnt pretty

Anyone else miss Sandin yet?

 

[PromisedLand]

As always it’s not the fact that they lost, all teams lose at times. It’s how they lost that people don’t like.

there was a graphic going around how Leafs/Tampa/Bruins perforemd against non playoff teams this season which was pretty telling