Andersen decision looming for Leafs

[makbeer]

Anything is reasonable. Like I say I loved Andersen, and I know he could let in some softies, but there's kinda no perfect goalie.

I think goalies are like a "gut feeling" for fans. I just have a good feeling about Campbell for some reason. And he's the best option we have and maybe that's unforunate, but it's what we've got so might as well wish for the best.

I am more worried about our goaltending next season. If Jack proves he's a top 15 #1 goalie he's going to cost close to Fred money. Or at least more than 4m. Not ideal paired with a 3m+ Mrazek at the back given our ridiculous cap structure.

And if Jack doesn't prove he's a #1, then we have Mrazek at 3m+ and a big questionmark next to him.

Thinking ahead of this year, it's why I wasn't keen on the Mrazek signing.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Yah good thing we didn't have Fred in net for game 7 vs Montreal.

It's to the point I stop reading and skip the post entirely if I see someone claiming Campbell is better because of game 7 Fred.

So tell me about game 5 6 and 7 Campbell then

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I am more worried about our goaltending next season. If Jack proves he's a top 15 #1 goalie he's going to cost close to Fred money. Or at least more than 4m. Not ideal paired with a 3m+ Mrazek at the back given our ridiculous cap structure.

And if Jack doesn't prove he's a #1, then we have Mrazek at 3m+ and a big questionmark next to him.

Thinking ahead of this year, it's why I wasn't keen on the Mrazek signing.

I feel like Mrazek was a "warm body" signing. That sounds really horrible to say I know, aka cheapest potentailly an NHL caliber backup we can get type thing.

I wonder why we can't develop our own goalies, like even one.

 

[makbeer]

I feel like Mrazek was a "warm body" signing. That sounds really horrible to say I know, aka cheapest potentailly an NHL caliber backup we can get type thing.

I wonder why we can't develop our own goalies, like even one.

Yeah....it's the term that bugs me... 3.8m x3 makes it awkward to deal with.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Yah good thing we didn't have Fred in net for game 7 vs Montreal.

Yeah, it is a good thing actually

What part of defense being non-existent caused him to let in that godawful Kuraly goal or Nordstrom goal in 2019? Blame the defense if you’d like for no reason, he shit the bed big time in pressure games.

Campbell let in one soft goal. Andersen did it for years.

 

[egd27]

Anybody with a half a brain knows that Carolina's defense has been vastly superior to ours the last few seasons.

Can't say I disagree, but I've read a number of posts about how fantastic the Leafs D has been since the coaching change.

 

[Mess]

Anybody with a half a brain knows that Carolina's defense has been vastly superior to ours the last few seasons.

How can that be when it was the Leafs management that felt the need to protect 4 Dmen including Justin Holl (D) in the Seattle Kraken expansion draft?

Only 3 teams the 2 X Stanley Cup Champs TB and Nashville along with our Leafs valued their Dcore to protect 4 and only 8 players.

Carolina's Freddy Andersen new team didn't protect 4 Dmen in expansion so his Record : 7-0-0 (1st), GA/G: 1.29 (2nd), SV%: .956 (3rd) with 1 SO seems even more impressive.

Compared to Leafs goalie Jack Campbell ... Record: 3-2-1 (Tied-12th), GA/G: 2.31 (16th), SV% : .918 (21st) with 0 shutouts.

The stats seem to suggest either Carolina has the better goalie or the better defense or both.

 

[Zybalto]

Can't say I disagree, but I've read a number of posts about how fantastic the Leafs D has been since the coaching change.

The Leafs have been probably the most improved defensive teams in the league since the coaching change no matter how you measure it.

Leafs 2016-2019 rankings under Babcock:

Fewest Shots against: 30th in the NHL
Fewest Expected Goals Against: 27th in the NHL
Team save%: 5th best in the NHL (Andersen absolute mode the reason for this but fell off near the end which was part of the reason for Babcock dismissal)

Leafs rankings under Keefe:
Fewest Shots against: 11th in the NHL
Fewest Expected Goals Against: 5th in the NHL
Team save%: 17th best in the NHL (mainly the low due to the play of Andersen as Campbell BADLY outplayed him and Hutch was more reliable near the end)

It's actually so well established now it's impossible to argue against it unless you have a biased agenda. The Leafs have also been one of the best defensive teams in the playoffs under Keefe let down by goaltending and finishing.

If you feel like crapping on the team in comparison to its play under the previous coach, this isnt the area to do it. I don't think anyone fondly remembers the days of the 2 minute fire drills hemmed in our zone and gave up almost the most shots in the league over those 3 years. Andersen's heroics (which he never got enough credit for) made this team look a lot better than it was but he was plain awful last season and its on him that hes not around anymore. Wasnt a fan of games where the team gave up only 25 shots and he gave up 3 unscreened goals, one of which went through him. He would have been benched on the Hurricanes with that sort of play too last year. Nice to see him doing well this year as the team owes him a lot for his play back in the day.

 

[Metroid]

Curious, the people being obsessed at Andersens start think he would play like this here? (D or no D) Ex bf/gf syndrome happening here and its very cringe.

 

[egd27]

The Leafs have been probably the most improved defensive teams in the league since the coaching change no matter how you measure it.

Leafs 2016-2019 rankings under Babcock:

Fewest Shots against: 30th in the NHL
Fewest Expected Goals Against: 27th in the NHL
Team save%: 5th best in the NHL (Andersen absolute mode the reason for this but fell off near the end which was part of the reason for Babcock dismissal)

Leafs rankings under Keefe:
Fewest Shots against: 11th in the NHL
Fewest Expected Goals Against: 5th in the NHL
Team save%: 17th best in the NHL (mainly the low due to the play of Andersen as Campbell BADLY outplayed him and Hutch was more reliable near the end)

It's actually so well established now it's impossible to argue against it unless you have a biased agenda. The Leafs have also been one of the best defensive teams in the playoffs under Keefe let down by goaltending and finishing.

If you feel like crapping on the team in comparison to its play under the previous coach, this isnt the area to do it. I don't think anyone fondly remembers the days of the 2 minute fire drills hemmed in our zone and gave up almost the most shots in the league over those 3 years. Andersen's heroics (which he never got enough credit for) made this team look a lot better than it was but he was plain awful last season and its on him that hes not around anymore. Wasnt a fan of games where the team gave up only 25 shots and he gave up 3 unscreened goals, one of which went through him. He would have been benched on the Hurricanes with that sort of play too last year. Nice to see him doing well this year as the team owes him a lot for his play back in the day.

So the Leafs team defense is better than the Canes? That was the question, not a comparison between Babcock & Keefe.

 

[Stephen]

I feel like Mrazek was a "warm body" signing. That sounds really horrible to say I know, aka cheapest potentailly an NHL caliber backup we can get type thing.

I wonder why we can't develop our own goalies, like even one.

Our amateur and overseas scouting isn’t exactly what you’d call impressive. Our goalie coach doesn’t seem to be very good either.

 

[justashadowof]

Our amateur and overseas scouting isn’t exactly what you’d call impressive. Our goalie coach doesn’t seem to be very good either.

I feel like other organizations are able to at least turn their B level goalie prospects into marginal NHLers. But the numbers are always against any 2nd tier goalie prospect developing.

When you think about it, there are somewhere in the vicinity of 25-30 long term starters (about 10 seasons on average) in the NHL at any time. These rough numbers suggest that on average an NHL organization finds a long term starter once a decade. The Leafs developed Reimer back in 2010 and drafted Rask in 2005. Then there's Felix Potvin in 1990. There's Damien Rhodes in 1987 who was a 1B starter for about 6 seasons. Then Wregget in 1982. As wild as it seems, the Leafs aren't far from average at producing goalies although they are getting overdue for producing their next one.

1982: Wregget (575 career games)
1987: Rhodes (309 career games)
1990: Potvin (635 career games)
2005: Rask (560 career games)
2006: Reimer (388 career games)

8 goalies drafted since Reimer.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Denying reality would be expecting to win when a team scores 0 goals, like we did against Columbus.

You're aware that it is impossible to win a playoff hockey game scoring 0 goals, right? Because that isn't clear by what you're posting.

And furthermore, what the other teams' goalie does has everything to do with the Leafs' soft and easy to play against offence, and exactly nothing to do with the goalie 200 feet down the ice.

The lack of logic is astounding.

How can you blame a goalie who put up a 0.936 sv%? The other goalies were no names and our 40mil forwards couldn't score.

But I can see why they would want to blame the goalie who dubas didn't sign or trade for and avoid putting any blame on the players dubas overpaid.

 

[Zybalto]

So the Leafs team defense is better than the Canes? That was the question, not a comparison between Babcock & Keefe.

Hey, you appeared to be laughing at anyone who thought the Leafs had decent D since the coaching change right? I figured you were making a point about it.

As far as Carolina and the Leafs go, all I have to say with 100% certainty is that both teams have been above average defensively that last couple seasons and both would have benched Freddy last year. He was one of the worst starters in the league who rightly lost his job and even got outplayed by Hutch.

I know injuries played a part so hopefully he can remain healthy and keep it up (except against us).

 

[Zybalto]

The lack of logic is astounding.

How can you blame a goalie who put up a 0.936 sv%? The other goalies were no names and our 40mil forwards couldn't score.

But I can see why they would want to blame the goalie who dubas didn't sign or trade for and avoid putting any blame on the players dubas overpaid.

Numbers can be misleading. Campbell also had the worst high danger save% of any goalie in the entire playoffs behind maybe the best rated D in the playoffs.

 

[hamzarocks]

Numbers can be misleading. Campbell also had the worst high danger save% of any goalie in the entire playoffs behind maybe the best rated D in the playoffs.

The "best rated defense" which played one of the least capable offenses

Do you guys only look at factors that try and paint the leafs in a positive light?

Best defensive effort vs a team with not one single star player. Just an absurd statement

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Yeah, it is a good thing actually

What part of defense being non-existent caused him to let in that godawful Kuraly goal or Nordstrom goal in 2019? Blame the defense if you’d like for no reason, he shit the bed big time in pressure games.

Campbell let in one soft goal. Andersen did it for years.

One of Andersens biggest weakness in the Jackets series was a winger breaking into the zone and then sniping one in. The lone goal he let in in those first two games was of this variety.

Campbell was the same on some of these. A habs winger breaks the zone and then just shoots it straight in. If you think it happened only once you have selective memory. The Gallagher one is the only one that's an obvious softie but the others don't support the case that he's better than Fred.

And again, forget softies, tell me more about Campbell in game 5 6 and 7 instead of just expecting us to blindly accept your opinion.

 

[DarkKnight]

Here's the thing, if you're arguing Fred is a product of a good defence, you're inferring ours is crap by comparison. Not disagreeing necessarily.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Curious, the people being obsessed at Andersens start think he would play like this here? (D or no D) Ex bf/gf syndrome happening here and its very cringe.

I read through these posts and nobody is blindly obsessed. I've seen at least 2 people say Canes are smoked if Andersen reverts back to last season injury mode. The only cringe comment among all of these is this one.

 

[Metroid]

I read through these posts and nobody is blindly obsessed. I've seen at least 2 people say Canes are smoked if Andersen reverts back to last season injury mode. The only cringe comment among all of these is this one.

Bumping up his stats , talking about every win. Maybe not here but all other threads. Meh. He's with another team now. Doing well. Good for him.

 

[egd27]

Hey, you appeared to be laughing at anyone who thought the Leafs had decent D since the coaching change right? I figured you were making a point about it.

The laugh was directed toward the inconsistency among posters.

You've read them.......

Poster A: Andersen is no longer an NHL Goalie
Poster B: Maybe the defense is an issue?
Poster A: No, the Leafs are borderline elite defensively since Keefe, it's Freddie, he's done.
Poster B: Looks like Andersen isn't done after all
Poster A: He's still crap, it's because he's behind a good defense

 

[Zybalto]

The "best rated defense" which played one of the least capable offenses

Do you guys only look at factors that try and paint the leafs in a positive light?

Best defensive effort vs a team with not one single star player. Just an absurd statement

While Montreal isn't a worldbeater when it comes to offensive output, they are certainly in the same league as as the Wild or NYI. (Slightly below average) and their top line last year was actually one of the better lines in the league last year when healthy.

Don't have to spin the Habs scoring as worse than it was to try and prove a point. I mean, Vegas scored the 4th most goals in the league last year and most would say their biggest star is a two way selke forward.

 

[hamzarocks]

While Montreal isn't a worldbeater when it comes to offensive output, they are certainly in the same league as as the Wild or NYI. (Slightly below average) and their top line last year was actually one of the better lines in the league last year when healthy.

Don't have to spin the Habs scoring as worse than it was to try and prove a point. I mean, Vegas scored the 4th most goals in the league last year and most would say their biggest star is a two way selke forward.

MTL was 17th in the league in goals for in a 7 team league. They were 20th the year before under normal circumstances. The Habs didn't have a functional PP either making them easy to defend with low quality PP players

They weren't a top offensive team with a set of elite players. It wasn't like the 2017 to 2019 series where we had to match up for elite talent along with strong depth scoring.

The Habs best players coming into the series were TT, Gallagher and Suzuki none of who are 1st line level on a contender. There was no Marchand/Bergeron/Pasta/Krejci nor OV/Kuz/Backstrom/Oshie level players to defend that series

Defending the Habs was not a challenge and it was the 2nd softest matchup we had, with the CBJ being a worse offensive team.

Playing elite defense for 4 games vs the Habs wasn't impressive and shouldn't warrant the hyperbolic and homeristic take off "best rated defense in the playoffs".

 

[Zybalto]

The laugh was directed toward the inconsistency among posters.

You've read them.......

Poster A: Andersen is no longer an NHL Goalie
Poster B: Maybe the defense is an issue?
Poster A: No, the Leafs are borderline elite defensively since Keefe, it's Freddie, he's done.
Poster B: Looks like Andersen isn't done after all
Poster A: He's still crap, it's because he's behind a good defense

Heh, I see what you are saying.

Andersen wasn't always crap the last 2 years with the Leafs either, he had still had some great periods of play mixed with some pure crap (usually involving nagging injury concerns). Looking at his miles and history, he could go south next game and stink it up the rest of the season. We all watched him last year and it wasn't the D giving up big chances that was the problem.

Even talking about D is weird to me here though because one would assume that Campbell would have to be the next coming of Hasek with the numbers he put up behind the same team. A lot of Freddy haters out there still bitter over him flopping those elimination games.

 

[IPS]

The Leafs have also been one of the best defensive teams in the playoffs under Keefe let down by goaltending and finishing.

Playing against the legendary offensive juggernauts Columbus and Montreal?