Andersen decision looming for Leafs

[BrannigansLaw]

One of Andersens biggest weakness in the Jackets series was a winger breaking into the zone and then sniping one in. The lone goal he let in in those first two games was of this variety.

Campbell was the same on some of these. A habs winger breaks the zone and then just shoots it straight in. If you think it happened only once you have selective memory. The Gallagher one is the only one that's an obvious softie but the others don't support the case that he's better than Fred.

And again, forget softies, tell me more about Campbell in game 5 6 and 7 instead of just expecting us to blindly accept your opinion.

My original point wasn’t even that Campbell is better lol. All I said was that Andersen would still be letting in bad goals here if he was a Leaf. That’s independent of whatever Campbell has done. Was he bad in Games 5 and 6 as well? Yeah you could say that. But that wasn’t my initial point.

Some people just can’t read or comprehend on here apparently.

 

[talenttracer]

Freddie had 6 strong starts in a row at times in Toronto, too.

Consistency, mentality, and health were his major issues here. I'm glad to see him doing well, but it was the right decision to move on from him - the goalie we are seeing in Carolina isn't the same one that we saw here, and suggesting otherwise, is purely malicious & an attempt to goad reactions.

 

[talenttracer]

-You played him to hard, look at the stats, most saves 17-20. Remember he is a big goalie. When you play a big guy that hard, you will wear him down, and that is what happend.

 

[Tak7]

Here's the thing, if you're arguing Fred is a product of a good defence, you're inferring ours is crap by comparison. Not disagreeing necessarily.

The Leafs D was much improved last season. Not just blueline performance, but overall team defense.

...and while Campbell was able to get favorable results behind that team, Freddie couldn't stop a beachball.

He lost his job to Campbell, while playing in empty buildings, with no pressure on his shoulders. This wasn't just "another Fred playoff collapse", this was a mentally fragile goalie who just fell apart.

 

[hamzarocks]

The Leafs D was much improved last season. Not just blueline performance, but overall team defense.

...and while Campbell was able to get favorable results behind that team, Freddie couldn't stop a beachball.

He lost his job to Campbell, while playing in empty buildings, with no pressure on his shoulders. This wasn't just "another Fred playoff collapse", this was a mentally fragile goalie who just fell apart.

No as we are seeing now it was an injury riddled Andersen whose body didn't allow him to put up the numbers he usually does

He had rebounded well and in that 3 game stretch vs the Oilers (the peak for the leafs 2021 season) he had a great game and was at a ~.910 and trending upwards.

After thst he sustained his injuries and sees his performance fall off a cliff quickly with him trying to play through the injuries which didn't work.

Now he's healthy, playing with a truly elite defense in an actual competivie league and is putting up unsustainable dominant numbers. When he falls off he'll still be a top 5 goalie in the league this year.

He's still a very good goaltender who has to proof his playoff chokes can be overcome (same with how our team has to do that this year as a whole)

He's not a .950 goalie but he's not a .895 goalie either. He's a ~.920 goalie who with the Canes excelling defense could be higher and win the Vezina this year.

Leaf fans wrote him off way to quick and a few of them were happy he was failing. The biggest andersen haters continues to look foolish when he posts about him not being injured and having faked an injury to get away from the team

 

[Nylanderthal]

I am more worried about our goaltending next season. If Jack proves he's a top 15 #1 goalie he's going to cost close to Fred money. Or at least more than 4m. Not ideal paired with a 3m+ Mrazek at the back given our ridiculous cap structure.

And if Jack doesn't prove he's a #1, then we have Mrazek at 3m+ and a big questionmark next to him.

Thinking ahead of this year, it's why I wasn't keen on the Mrazek signing.

If mrazek isn’t signed then there’s literally 0 back up plan. If Campbell proves himself worthy of a big raise you move mrazek and pay jack from there. If Campbell falters beyond belief, or far exceeds expectations and prices himself out of town, you have a guy in mrazek who can give you 40-45 games.

 

[talenttracer]

oho i wasn't going to comment but i saw this and i had to laugh.

as for Freddy - i'm glad he's having a strong October. call me when he's having a strong April, May and June.

At that time i will not have had to make more than 2000 saves, like he did in Toronto. He will be strong and ready for the playoffs. And not worn down like a 2 dollar hore sunday morning. Stay by the Phone, come June.

 

[TGB]

I feel like Mrazek was a "warm body" signing. That sounds really horrible to say I know, aka cheapest potentailly an NHL caliber backup we can get type thing.

I wonder why we can't develop our own goalies, like even one.

There was a guy here awhile back who claimed to be a pro goalie in Toronto's system (or at least knew people who were). He said the team's current head goalie coach is a weirdo and often resorts to visualization and positive affirmation techniques for coaching rather than actual practice. He also said LA has a great coaching system which is why you see many so-so guys go there and become good.

Obviously I'm greatly streamlining his explanation, but it was very in depth, full of details you never see mentioned by the press, and made a ton of sense, so I'm inclined to believe the guy. Heck, that would explain much of Toronto's development in general. It seems like the only guys who outperform their evaluations around here are the guys too fiery and passionate to rely on good vibes and positive thoughts. Everyone else either disappoints, eventually fall apart, or they're Austin Matthews (ie, so damn good their worst season is still better than most of the league's best, so no one harps on them...well, not enough to drive them out of town, anyway).

 

[DarkKnight]

The Leafs D was much improved last season. Not just blueline performance, but overall team defense.

...and while Campbell was able to get favorable results behind that team, Freddie couldn't stop a beachball.

He lost his job to Campbell, while playing in empty buildings, with no pressure on his shoulders. This wasn't just "another Fred playoff collapse", this was a mentally fragile goalie who just fell apart.

Or he was injured.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

the goalie we are seeing in Carolina isn't the same one that we saw here,

It’s actually the same guy, with better D.

Hockey is a team game.

 

[Menzinger]

I am more worried about our goaltending next season. If Jack proves he's a top 15 #1 goalie he's going to cost close to Fred money. Or at least more than 4m. Not ideal paired with a 3m+ Mrazek at the back given our ridiculous cap structure.

And if Jack doesn't prove he's a #1, then we have Mrazek at 3m+ and a big questionmark next to him.

Thinking ahead of this year, it's why I wasn't keen on the Mrazek signing.

Andersen had several 82 game seasons as a teams #1 prior to signing his most recent deal. Campbell will have 1 as a teams 1A.

Imo he wont be in a position to ask for that type of money, even with a big season. I love Campbell but (so far) he played less than 30GP over his best season in the league

 

[Notsince67]

Not me.


Probably for the best Andersen left simply so everyone can see how truly bad this team is defensively, constantly hanging out their goalies to dry.

Freddy was plain shit last year and the year before. There is just no polishing that turd.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yes because Jack and Mrazek have such a history of consistency, mentality and health.

Both Mrazek and Campbell have a combined 34 or so odd games played last season

 

[PromisedLand]

The Leafs' goaltending has been good enough to win a single playoff series in 5 consecutive playoffs. Stop looking in goal when it was a team failure. When your goalie's save percentage is well north of 92%, you've had a chance to win. I believe some have no idea how it looks when a team at least capable of making the playoffs is actually let down by its goaltending: 2005-06 through 2009-10.

Bingo!

 

[PromisedLand]

Anybody with a half a brain knows that Carolina's defense has been vastly superior to ours the last few seasons.

Free beer if you can guess what is dubas' handle on HF am sure you gonna get a post claiming not true based on "expected BS/60" stats

Incoming dubasites posts to show something something something... based on nothing nothing nothing LMAO

 

[PromisedLand]

The laugh was directed toward the inconsistency among posters.

You've read them.......

Poster A: Andersen is no longer an NHL Goalie
Poster B: Maybe the defense is an issue?
Poster A: No, the Leafs are borderline elite defensively since Keefe, it's Freddie, he's done.
Poster B: Looks like Andersen isn't done after all
Poster A: He's still crap, it's because he's behind a good defense

You gotta replace the "A" with a "D" then it makes more sense. okay okay ...... replace it with KD

 

[egd27]

You gotta replace the "A" with a "D" then it makes more sense. okay okay ...... replace it with KD

or a Z?

 

[Stephen]

I feel like other organizations are able to at least turn their B level goalie prospects into marginal NHLers. But the numbers are always against any 2nd tier goalie prospect developing.

When you think about it, there are somewhere in the vicinity of 25-30 long term starters (about 10 seasons on average) in the NHL at any time. These rough numbers suggest that on average an NHL organization finds a long term starter once a decade. The Leafs developed Reimer back in 2010 and drafted Rask in 2005. Then there's Felix Potvin in 1990. There's Damien Rhodes in 1987 who was a 1B starter for about 6 seasons. Then Wregget in 1982. As wild as it seems, the Leafs aren't far from average at producing goalies although they are getting overdue for producing their next one.

1982: Wregget (575 career games)
1987: Rhodes (309 career games)
1990: Potvin (635 career games)
2005: Rask (560 career games)
2006: Reimer (388 career games)

8 goalies drafted since Reimer.

We had a thread on here last year that talked about Steve Briere. A poster gave a lot of insight on how he isn't the most techncial goalie coach, and I've heard Jonathan Bernier laugh at the kind of instruction he got from Rick St. Croix in Toronto.

Basically seems like the Leafs fall into the trap of grabbing these really athletic guys who have poor structure, technique and don't track the puck well. Go back to the Justin Pogge, James Reimer, Jonas Gustavsson, Jussi Rynnas, Garrett Sparks, Kasmimir Kaskisuo and think about how these big guys seem to flop around, play small, have terrific reflexes but often poor puck tracking. Tell me it isn't a systematic problem.

But generally I think the organization has been somewhat poor developing lots of player types, whether they're two way defensemen or centers with size, or cultivating NHL capable goaltending.

 

[Havoc]

Both Mrazek and Campbell have a combined 34 or so odd games played last season

I keep forgetting how small Campbells sample is. Fred roughly burned through 1/3 of Campbells starts already.

 

[makbeer]

We had a thread on here last year that talked about Steve Briere. A poster gave a lot of insight on how he isn't the most techncial goalie coach, and I've heard Jonathan Bernier laugh at the kind of instruction he got from Rick St. Croix in Toronto.

Basically seems like the Leafs fall into the trap of grabbing these really athletic guys who have poor structure, technique and don't track the puck well. Go back to the Justin Pogge, James Reimer, Jonas Gustavsson, Jussi Rynnas, Garrett Sparks, Kasmimir Kaskisuo and think about how these big guys seem to flop around, play small, have terrific reflexes but often poor puck tracking. Tell me it isn't a systematic problem.

But generally I think the organization has been somewhat poor developing lots of player types, whether they're two way defensemen or centers with size, or cultivating NHL capable goaltending.

I don't know Briere but I do know a lot of goalie coaches and almost all of them are incredibly detailed and structured.

Some are actually too structured (ie breaking the defensive zone into 12 mini zones with prescribed reactions/positions for each).

It is interesting that Freddy became less and less structured through his time here and that impacted his numbers.

For Jack I don't feel his structure is fantastic. He's quite inconsistent with how he plays different shooters and positions, especially on his post integration and lateral movement. I think this actually plays to his advantage at times as he's not the kind of goalie shooters prepare to beat.

 

[makbeer]

Andersen had several 82 game seasons as a teams #1 prior to signing his most recent deal. Campbell will have 1 as a teams 1A.

Imo he wont be in a position to ask for that type of money, even with a big season. I love Campbell but (so far) he played less than 30GP over his best season in the league

I hope so, but I can't see him taking less than Mrazek's 3.8. Which is why I really didn't like that deal.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The other goalies were no names and our 40mil forwards couldn't score.

40 million AAV with 4 million results

 

[Stephen]

I don't know Briere but I do know a lot of goalie coaches and almost all of them are incredibly detailed and structured.

Some are actually too structured (ie breaking the defensive zone into 12 mini zones with prescribed reactions/positions for each).

It is interesting that Freddy became less and less structured through his time here and that impacted his numbers.

For Jack I don't feel his structure is fantastic. He's quite inconsistent with how he plays different shooters and positions, especially on his post integration and lateral movement. I think this actually plays to his advantage at times as he's not the kind of goalie shooters prepare to beat.

Campbell sounds like he's from the Bill Ranford, Dusty Imoo (too bad how that turned out) factory they have out in LA. The work they've done with guys like Quick, Petersen, Jones. He reminds me more of a 90s reflex goalie in a lot of ways. Kind of plays a bit like Cujo, and has a lot more of that second effort compared to an Andersen.

 

[makbeer]

Campbell sounds like he's from the Bill Ranford, Dusty Imoo (too bad how that turned out) factory they have out in LA. The work they've done with guys like Quick, Petersen, Jones. He reminds me more of a 90s reflex goalie in a lot of ways. Kind of plays a bit like Cujo, and has a lot more of that second effort compared to an Andersen.

I was at a IIHF goaltending development camp and one of the biggest focuses that came out of that is the need to break "robotic" or formulaic behavior from goaltenders as shooters had adapted and grew up preparing to beat the positions goaltenders would likely be in. That of course does not mean abandoning structure or formula, but understanding when to deviate or when to trust instincts over system.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Yeah....it's the term that bugs me... 3.8m x3 makes it awkward to deal with.

Ok, it must have been a busy time of my life (it probably was) when we signed Mrazek.

$3.8 x 3?!?!?!?

I thought he was on like near league minimum. Now I feel dumb.

Sorry about that. Wow....