Post-Game Talk: And the wheels are spinning, spinning, and spinning, spinning. Jets lose in Sunrise.

[theamazingchris]

Goaltending cost us this one. We were sloppy, yes, but we generated quite a few chances as well. Thomas saved our chances and Pavs didn't save theirs. That's all she wrote.

Effort is, ironically, the laziest criticism there is. "They didn't win because they didn't try because partying/laziness/low gritfactorTM/paycheque." Sometimes you lose the dice roll, and that's that. I understand that players probably shouldn't think like that, but as fans we don't have to buy into the same illusions players do. It's not always effort. Sometimes the game doesn't go your way.

Chicago's on a two game losing streak. This stuff happens to every single team, and it's not as important as the doom-criers here would like it to be. Move on. Win more. The dice won't always fall our way.

 

[PaperRockChamp]

In the Pregame thread I posted "This is one of those games. You know what i'm talking about."

Saw it coming.. We play well vs. a "tougher opponent" and then take a few steps back vs Fla. Not surprised in the least. It just shows that this team still has a long way to go. Then again, 3-2 so far on this road trip is not all that bad. If we win in Tampa, we can look at this trip as an overall success. We will see.

I have to admit, I believe some of them partied too hard or just enough to not be able to play at 100%

 

[Duke749]

Goaltending cost us this one. We were sloppy, yes, but we generated quite a few chances as well. Thomas saved our chances and Pavs didn't save theirs. That's all she wrote.

Effort is, ironically, the laziest criticism there is. "They didn't win because they didn't try because partying/laziness/low gritfactorTM/paycheque." Sometimes you lose the dice roll, and that's that. I understand that players probably shouldn't think like that, but as fans we don't have to buy into the same illusions players do. It's not always effort. Sometimes the game doesn't go your way.

Chicago's on a two game losing streak. This stuff happens to every single team, and it's not as important as the doom-criers here would like it to be. Move on. Win more. The dice won't always fall our way.

This is such a cop out. Yes, Pavs was bad, but most of the D and forward group didn't play well either. Let's not sugar coat the forward group last night. It was not pretty. Neither was Enstrom's play, which certainly didn't help.

 

[theamazingchris]

I'm not copping out of anything, I explicitly said we were sloppy and gave up too many chances. But their chances went in more than ours. That's hockey.

 

[garret9]

This is such a cop out. Yes, Pavs was bad, but most of the D and forward group didn't play well either. Let's not sugar coat the forward group last night. It was not pretty. Neither was Enstrom's play, which certainly didn't help.

The difference statistically was goaltending.

Some Jets may have not played well, Enstrom being one of them... but overall as a team the forwards and defensemen were good enough to win a hockey game. They were good enough that you would expect a team to win like that more often than not IF goaltending between the two teams were equal.

What I want to know why the **** Jets can't have good goaltending and players playing good enough to win in the same game.

 

[Duke749]

The difference statistically was goaltending.

Some Jets may have not played well, Enstrom being one of them... but overall as a team the forwards and defensemen were good enough to win a hockey game. They were good enough that you would expect a team to win like that more often than not IF goaltending between the two teams were equal.

What I want to know why the **** Jets can't have good goaltending and players playing good enough to win in the same game.

Just because they were good enough doesn't mean they played well.

 

[wpgsilver]

Meh.
I'm usually critical of Pavs, but I don't hang last night on him.
The whole team sucked.
I'll save my vitriol for another night.

 

[garret9]

Just because they were good enough doesn't mean they played well.

I know that. I used the words I used intentionally.

Jets skaters => some good, some bad, overall ok
Panthers skaters => some good, some bad, overall less ok
Jets goaltending => more bad than good, overall not very good
Panthers skaters => more good than bad, overall winner of the game

I'm not blaming Pav's for the loss, but if we want to talk about Enstrom playing not well (which is true) who normally plays well, than we can mention Pavs playing not well (which is true) who normally does not play well but has been as of late.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

This is such a cop out. Yes, Pavs was bad, but most of the D and forward group didn't play well either. Let's not sugar coat the forward group last night. It was not pretty. Neither was Enstrom's play, which certainly didn't help.

I thought most of the D and forward group played poorly against NJ. Still came out with the win, thanks in large part to stellar goaltending. Their performance against Philly was dreadful, probably the worst game they've played all season. Even still, they were in it right until the last minute, in large part because Pavelec was spectacular.

Their performance last night was pretty meh, but I don't think it was worse than those two games. Sure, it might seem like a cop out. But IMO if you're looking for things to attribute that loss to, goaltending is near the top of that list. Pavelec was not good at all.

 

[Aavco Cup]

@WiebeSunSports: Despite skating today, sounds like #NHLJets F Evander Kane (lower-body) is doubtful for Sat game vs #tblightning Still day-to-day officially

 

[Hank Chinaski]

On the flip side, I also agree with those saying the effort level last night was lacking in a big way.

 

[theamazingchris]

Anyway, what I saw last night, which I see worryingly often with this team, is a team that lacks execution. I don't think our problem is effort, in fact I think that's the opposite of the problem. You don't make tape-to-tape passes, enter the zone with possession, or exit our zone smoothly by working hard alone. You need to use your head. This team is trying too hard, if anything. Forcing passes, slamming the puck up the boards hoping that it'll go out, dumping without checking for other options. It doesn't help trying to convince people when Enstrom, the poster boy for smart play, had an off night. But trying harder is not why I see the Jets failing. It's failure to think the game well that I attribute to this loss. That and some bad goaltending.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

when all is said and done regarding effort, systems and goaltending, it really just boils down to the Jets inability to will the puck into the net

 

[WinnipegWinter*]

when all is said and done regarding effort, systems and goaltending, it really just boils down to the Jets inability to will the puck into the net

And keep it out of the net

 

[allan5oh]

Did anyone find that heart rate monitoring special during the 2nd intermission interesting? I thought all teams were doing stuff like this, but apparently there's only a few around the league.

 

[Guerzy]

Did anyone find that heart rate monitoring special during the 2nd intermission interesting? I thought all teams were doing stuff like this, but apparently there's only a few around the league.

I watched a feature on it a couple months ago, I believe it was Philly doing it? It was pretty interesting, though.

 

[wpgallday1960]

I know that. I used the words I used intentionally.

Jets skaters => some good, some bad, overall ok
Panthers skaters => some good, some bad, overall less ok
Jets goaltending => more bad than good, overall not very good
Panthers skaters => more good than bad, overall winner of the game

I'm not blaming Pav's for the loss, but if we want to talk about Enstrom playing not well (which is true) who normally plays well, than we can mention Pavs playing not well (which is true) who normally does not play well but has been as of late.

Seems reasonable. In order for the Jets to win last night Pavs would have had to steal it for them. Instead he played as bad as most of the team, and they got what they deserved.

 

[Grind]

Seems reasonable. In order for the Jets to win last night Pavs would have had to steal it for them. Instead he played as bad as most of the team, and they got what they deserved.

i think what he was saying was the jets played ok.

the panthers played less ok then the jets

Tim tohmas played very good

Ondrej Pavelec played much worse


but in total

Jets + Pavelec < Panthers + Thomas



forgive me, i'm not good with "<" the above is supposed to say jets + pavs = not as good as Panthers + Thomas, so if it doesn't say that.....just pretend it does.

 

[BigZ65]

Just because they were good enough doesn't mean they played well.

Also doesn't account for breakdowns (or great plays on the other hand) like both defencemen puck watching as the puck rolls to the point and neither accounting for a Florida forward including one guy standing in front waiting for a rebound, nor getting into a position closing the shooting lane on a soft point shot designed to induce a rebound. Those 2 second lapses make all the difference in a league where the differences in talent and ability are marginal.

 

[Grind]

Also doesn't account for breakdowns (or great plays on the other hand) like both defencemen puck watching as the puck rolls to the point and neither accounting for a Florida forward including one guy standing in front waiting for a rebound, nor getting into a position closing the shooting lane on a soft point shot designed to induce a rebound. Those 2 second lapses make all the difference in a league where the differences in talent and ability are marginal.

the biggest issue with pointing to these things is it's based entirely off the assumption that these things never happen in games we win/ appear to "have a good effort"

that's my issue.

we point em out in losses. We fret over em en losses. we make them indicative of "poor effort" or "failures to execute" in losses, but we give them no such narrative when we win the game in spite of them.


It's the main issue i have with people cruxing on things like toby's bad game, etc etc etc.

 

[Jet]

Insert generic Jets player interview here:

 

[Grind]

Insert generic Jets player interview here:

...

The word "sportsing" in here cracks me up beyond belief...

 

[wpgsilver]

When is the Top Hat going to come back into style?
That meme really makes clear how fashionable it can be.

 

[wilty00]

The reason I struggle with that is that so many of our top players were playing 'stupid'. Like not just flat, but stupid. Enstrom had one of his worst games as a Jet after playing maybe one of his best against the Rags.

All kinda comes back to the same thing for me. These guys, particularly the top players in the league, aren't robots. I don't watch enough Pittsburgh games but I'm sure Crosby has had nights where he's made his fair share of blunders and "stupid" plays. I wouldn't worry about it unless it becomes a pattern.

Toby will come back strong next game... I'm sure he's every bit as aware that he had a bad game as we are.

 

[garret9]

When is the Top Hat going to come back into style?
That meme really makes clear how fashionable it can be.

True dat