Post-Game Talk: And the wheels are spinning, spinning, and spinning, spinning. Jets lose in Sunrise.

[Positive]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/jets/weve-got-to-learn-quick-234712801.html


Typical of this team.

If anything, Olli knows the right things to say and has the right attitude. If we could transplant that brain into a body 10 years younger...

 

[Guerzy]

If anything, Olli knows the right things to say and has the right attitude. If we could transplant that brain into a body 10 years younger...

It appears many of our players say the right things, have the right attitude, etc.

And I say, they're full of ****.

Edit: This team talks the talk like they could be a championship team, but when push comes to shove, they never live up to the crap that consistently comes out of their mouths.

 

[Yukon Joe]

this loss stings. Florida is a team that we should have been able to beat. the fact that we didnt, hurts.

It's not that the Jets should have beat the Panthers.

It's that if the Jets are going to be a playoff team, they need to beat teams like the Panthers.

 

[Warhead77]

The easiest change to make at this point is to simply fire Noel.

But that's ulikely to happen, IMO.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I agree with you they are unlikely to make the playoffs, though I'm not willing to throw in the towel just yet. I'll give them until the end of December.

But at some point you have to look at this team and think of some way to change the culture of the team because Olli nailed it. The other way of saying it is these guys aren't mature enough to get up for the "easy" games. They play well against good teams but cannot put away "lesser" teams. Who does that fall on? To me, and I confess I'm just a fan with no great knowledge of the game, that falls to the coach and the leader/captain of the team.

Ladd's been on cup winning teams and has seen/been part of the culture of winning. Do the Jets have that? I don't see it.

Noel is doing what to fix this? The same as he's done for the last several years? Yeah, that didn't work then and it won't work now. The team is complacent and immature as a group. They are not bringing it in the fashion that the Blackhawks do.

It's great to be up to play the Rangers and hopefully they step up against the 'better' Florida team. But they get St. Louis, Colorado and the lowly Stars (who are ahead of us in the standings, yes?) next week at home. I'm not counting on winning all three of those (2/3). After that they have eight more December games.

I think they have a shot if they go 4/2 on this road trip, 2/1 at home next week and 6/2 in those last eight. Dropping more than two or three of the next 11 and the hole is just too deep.

Ladd has said that the level that the Jets practice and play at is much less intense than a championship team. Maybe we need a taskmaster for a coach?

 

[Grind]

It appears many of our players say the right things, have the right attitude, etc.

And I say, they're full of ****.

Edit: This team talks the talk like they could be a championship team, but when push comes to shove, they never live up to the crap that consistently comes out of their mouths.

This is exactly my problem.

This team preaches character, etc etc. Talks a lot about taking the steps, etc, but enver doe sit.


My biggest issue? EVERYONE says it on the team. Seriously, the only meaningful players you don't ever hear talking about "not wanting it enough" or bull **** like that are Toby and Buff, who happen to be likely the two most effective players on the team*


So either we've got a team full of hypocrits, the lack of "want" in our 3 worst players sinks this team, or the entire team expects the two most effective players to play even better.

Something has to give.

 

[sipowicz]

It appears many of our players say the right things, have the right attitude, etc.

And I say, they're full of ****.

Edit: This team talks the talk like they could be a championship team, but when push comes to shove, they never live up to the crap that consistently comes out of their mouths.

You nailed it! I think it would be tough for ANY coach to change the attitude of this group, a change in the key parts is what's needed before guys like Trouba, Schief etc. are effected as well.

Sadly even our captain is one of the guys who doesn't always show up.

PS Guys like Frolik make the team better, putting in a guy like Tangradi makes the team worse!

 

[Aavco Cup]

@WiebeSunSports: #NHLJets on ice at #tblightning practice rink and Evander Kane (lower-body) is on ice with teammates for first time since last Friday

@WiebeSunSports: #NHLJets F Michael Frolik also returns to ice after missing Thurs game with the flu

@WiebeSunSports: Kane didn't finish the #NHLJets practice. Not sure if he will be available or not for game Sat vs #tblightning

 

[Huffer]

@WiebeSunSports: #NHLJets on ice at #tblightning practice rink and Evander Kane (lower-body) is on ice with teammates for first time since last Friday

@WiebeSunSports: #NHLJets F Michael Frolik also returns to ice after missing Thurs game with the flu

@WiebeSunSports: Kane didn't finish the #NHLJets practice. Not sure if he will be available or not for game Sat vs #tblightning

Thank you for always posting relevant Jets tweets Aavco Cup. I don't know about others, but I really appreciate it.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

This is exactly my problem.

This team preaches character, etc etc. Talks a lot about taking the steps, etc, but enver doe sit.


My biggest issue? EVERYONE says it on the team. Seriously, the only meaningful players you don't ever hear talking about "not wanting it enough" or bull **** like that are Toby and Buff, who happen to be likely the two most effective players on the team*


So either we've got a team full of hypocrits, the lack of "want" in our 3 worst players sinks this team, or the entire team expects the two most effective players to play even better.

Something has to give.

Players have to come up with a narrative.

No Jets player is going to say "Pavelec got severely outplayed by Thomas", or "Thorburn was a real dumbass for trying to fight Gudbranson after a clean hit", or "what marginal talent we have on this roster has been further decimated by injuries and strange coaching decisions". So cliches about not wanting it enough are the fill-in.

There may indeed be issues with motivation and effort, but IMO it's almost always noise when players talk about it.

 

[surixon]

You nailed it! I think it would be tough for ANY coach to change the attitude of this group, a change in the key parts is what's needed before guys like Trouba, Schief etc. are effected as well.

Sadly even our captain is one of the guys who doesn't always show up.

PS Guys like Frolik make the team better, putting in a guy like Tangradi makes the team worse!

Wheeler in my mind is the biggest culprit with regards to his compete level. There are some other guys lime Buff that are too hot and cold.

I'm not worried about Ladd and Little, both put forth an honest effort far more often than not.

Ladd could probably use another guy lime him in the room to provide assistance but other than that I think we need more of a task master coach.

 

[Grind]

You nailed it! I think it would be tough for ANY coach to change the attitude of this group, a change in the key parts is what's needed before guys like Trouba, Schief etc. are effected as well.

Sadly even our captain is one of the guys who doesn't always show up.

PS Guys like Frolik make the team better, putting in a guy like Tangradi makes the team worse!

I dunno. I don't think having tanger int he bottom six is really the problem.

moreso having tanger + peluso + albert in the bottom six and thorburn in the top 6 is the biggest problem.

you can get by with 2 of those players int he bottom six, not 3 and 1 in the top.



I agree frolik makes this team much better, very stoked on that pick up.

My biggest problem is this teams ability to go on runs. Moreso, my problem is our ability as fans (or the management) to fallin love with this team when it does. EVERY team goes on runs. Good teams don't keep doing what we're doing.

And then they come out and talk about not wanting it? I don't think it has anythign to do with not wanting it, i think this team just isn't good enough. "Heart" is as up there in my list of excuses i hate as "consistency". the best manifestation of heart and consistency is just being better at hockey. Wether because of coaching symptoms, goal tending, or skater calibur, forget the narratives- this team just isn't good enough at hockey. it would be really nice to see management do something about that (either long term or short term, and no, doing nothing doesn't count as making us better long term)


Just getting really sick of seeing this team do JUST well enough to keep everyone thinking drastic changes don't need to be made.


EDIT: Also, I don't think wheelers a culprit. As garrets shown, criticisms of him have always lined up with his shooting percentage. Wheeler's not taking anymore shifts off then anyone else, he's jsut not getting the bounces. Maybe some see him being useless. I don't see that. I see a big man that plays the same way he's always played, just not getting luck (but still outperforming 85% of the league).

My biggest problem? Halishuck and Thorburn got 16 minutes of icetime. Halishucks on the pk...thorburn is not, and i hope to hell he wasn't on the PP. 16 minutes is waaaaaaaaay too much for thorburn to be playing, let alone in a game we're losing.


I just hope this isn't pavy coming back to his career norms

 

[sipowicz]

Wheeler in my mind is the biggest culprit with regards to his compete level. There are some other guys lime Buff that are too hot and cold.

I'm not worried about Ladd and Little, both put forth an honest effort far more often than not.

Ladd could probably use another guy lime him in the room to provide assistance but other than that I think we need more of a task master coach.

I think there would be a revolt if this country club attitude team had a task master (not a players) coach. To me the core of this team is soft in regards to compete level, mental toughness and strong desire to win.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I dunno. I don't think having tanger int he bottom six is really the problem.

moreso having tanger + peluso + albert in the bottom six and thorburn in the top 6 is the biggest problem.

you can get by with 2 of those players int he bottom six, not 3 and 1 in the top.



I agree frolik makes this team much better, very stoked on that pick up.

My biggest problem is this teams ability to go on runs. Moreso, my problem is our ability as fans (or the management) to fallin love with this team when it does. EVERY team goes on runs. Good teams don't keep doing what we're doing.

And then they come out and talk about not wanting it? I don't think it has anythign to do with not wanting it, i think this team just isn't good enough. "Heart" is as up there in my list of excuses i hate as "consistency". the best manifestation of heart and consistency is just being better at hockey. Wether because of coaching symptoms, goal tending, or skater calibur, forget the narratives- this team just isn't good enough at hockey. it would be really nice to see management do something about that (either long term or short term, and no, doing nothing doesn't count as making us better long term)


Just getting really sick of seeing this team do JUST well enough to keep everyone thinking drastic changes don't need to be made.


EDIT: Also, I don't think wheelers a culprit. As garrets shown, criticisms of him have always lined up with his shooting percentage. Wheeler's not taking anymore shifts off then anyone else, he's jsut not getting the bounces. Maybe some see him being useless. I don't see that. I see a big man that plays the same way he's always played, just not getting luck (but still outperforming 85% of the league).

My biggest problem? Halishuck and Thorburn got 16 minutes of icetime. Halishucks on the pk...thorburn is not, and i hope to hell he wasn't on the PP. 16 minutes is waaaaaaaaay too much for thorburn to be playing, let alone in a game we're losing.


I just hope this isn't pavy coming back to his career norms

For the bolded.... that's what keeps teams on the treadmill of mediocrity.

 

[cbcwpg]

I said in the last GDT that if the Jets lose to Florida, I was going to be severely pissed. I warned the Jets. I told 'em, but they didn't listen.

So after calming down a bit, my conclusion is that there are too many pay cheque collectors and not enough hockey players on this team. We have some good players, but we also have a few that just go along for the ride most nights or just don't have any ability. No one says you are going to win every game, but you need to go into every game with the attitude and effort that says you will. That's how championship teams play. And we are no where near that.

Unless TNSE want to see this team wallowing along playing " win one, lose one " for the next 10 years and just missing out of the playoffs again and again.....someone in this organization needs to start swinging the axe and getting heads to roll OR at least get the message out that this is not acceptable and you will be held accountable. Players, coaches, management, the ushers, the popcorn sellers, Mickey... everyone is accountable.

 

[Grind]

I think there would be a revolt if this country club attitude team had a task master (not a players) coach. Too me the core of this team is soft in regards to compete level, mental toughness and strong desire to win.

I don't buy it.


You don't play the game for 20+ years, spend the work it takes to get through junior, get drafted, and carve out an NHL career without a ridiculouse compete level, mental toughenss and strong desire to win.


it's a bull **** narrative and i'm pretty sick of it. It's an excuse because we don't want to admit our goalie **** the bed, our coach plays a stupid system and has a love affair with useless hockey players, or that the team in general is just not as good at hockey as the 10 other teams it has to be better then.

 

[Darth Handsome*]

If these players worked harder & played with some conviction, they'd be better at hockey.

 

[surixon]

I dunno. I don't think having tanger int he bottom six is really the problem.

moreso having tanger + peluso + albert in the bottom six and thorburn in the top 6 is the biggest problem.

you can get by with 2 of those players int he bottom six, not 3 and 1 in the top.



I agree frolik makes this team much better, very stoked on that pick up.

My biggest problem is this teams ability to go on runs. Moreso, my problem is our ability as fans (or the management) to fallin love with this team when it does. EVERY team goes on runs. Good teams don't keep doing what we're doing.

And then they come out and talk about not wanting it? I don't think it has anythign to do with not wanting it, i think this team just isn't good enough. "Heart" is as up there in my list of excuses i hate as "consistency". the best manifestation of heart and consistency is just being better at hockey. Wether because of coaching symptoms, goal tending, or skater calibur, forget the narratives- this team just isn't good enough at hockey. it would be really nice to see management do something about that (either long term or short term, and no, doing nothing doesn't count as making us better long term)


Just getting really sick of seeing this team do JUST well enough to keep everyone thinking drastic changes don't need to be made.

See my problem is that Noel has this team playing a dump and chase system that pretty much requires us to outwork our opponents in order to win. Sure sometimes Pavs steals games where we don't bring the effort but pretty much we only win with A games by the vast majority of our players.

I don't feel it's realistic to expect A games by 85%, of the team every night. Off games happen, teams play flat. Every team including teams like Chicago Pitts etc have a number of flat games. We just end up losing most of our flat games while good teams win most of theirs. The reason I think is that a good portion of those teams are better coached, they have more diverse attacks so that if say the cycle is off they will switch to something else. The Penguins will bring a terrible effort yet walk away with 3 pp goals and win the game.

We pay for having a rigid thinking coaching staff that isn't able to adapt their strategy or implement a successful pp strategy.

 

[sipowicz]

I don't buy it.


You don't play the game for 20+ years, spend the work it takes to get through junior, get drafted, and carve out an NHL career without a ridiculouse compete level, mental toughenss and strong desire to win.


it's a bull **** narrative and i'm pretty sick of it. It's an excuse because we don't want to admit our goalie **** the bed, our coach plays a stupid system and has a love affair with useless hockey players, or that the team in general is just not as good at hockey as the 10 other teams it has to be better then.

So what do you call a team with a group of players who never show up on a consistent basis, on any given night it's only a handful of guys that show up and aside from 2 or 3 never the same guys who BRING it every night. We have a team of floaters and the result is no play offs this year, no play offs last year, no playoffs....

Sure you need talent to win but you also need a desire to win, sorry but IMO this team just doesn't have enough of those guys.

 

[Grind]

See my problem is that Noel has this team playing a dump and chase system that pretty much requires us to outwork our opponents in order to win. Sure sometimes Pavs steals games where we don't bring the effort but pretty much we only win with A games by the vast majority of our players.

I don't feel it's realistic to expect A games by 85%, of the team every night. Off games happen, teams play flat. Every team including teams like Chicago Pitts etc have a number of flat games. We just end up losing most of our flat games while good teams win most of theirs. The reason I think is that a good portion of those teams are better coached, they have more diverse attacks so that if say the cycle is off they will switch to something else. The Penguins will bring a terrible effort yet walk away with 3 pp goals and win the game.

We pay for having a rigid thinking coaching staff that isn't able to adapt their strategy or implement a successful pp strategy.

I agree with this pretty much 100%. I've been struggling to put this into words but that's about it.

I don't htink our players bring their A games any less then any other teams. Its just that the way this team is constructed, through a combination of coaching system, player personnel, and goal tending talent, that we only win with those games. the good teams in this league are good enough to win without, either by A) having a system that plays to the strengths of the talent on the team B) having enough talent in skaters to make up for deficiencies or C) having a good enough goal tender to make up for deficiencies.

Attempting to try one of these things costs no assets. I'm not even calling for a coaching change, i'm just asking noel to change the strategy.....and to not play chris thorburn for 16 minutes.

 

[Boreal]

I will be cheering for this team every night - as always. That said, I do not really believe in them and their ability to succeed. I remain forever hopeful, just full of doubt.

 

[Winnipeg Jets]

What a stinker of a game. If this team has any hope of making the playoffs they have to be more consistent. I don't think I've followed a team that has so many instances where they play a great game and follow it up with an absolute stinker. To see those two extremes so often is very disconcerting, they just aren't ready for whatever reason and something has to change be it coaching staff or players to wake this team up and have them put in a consistent effort.

 

[Jet]

If Tangradi is considered an important player then the Jets have bigger problems.

The reason I put Tanger in there is because he was coming back from being scratched and he seems to come back very strong after being sat. I could have added other players to the list. Scheifele couldn't make a simple play. Stuart and Thorburn were bad but they usually are.

The ice looked absolutely awful but both teams had to play on it. I guess that might be Florida's home ice advantage

It's obvious that this is what this group, with these coaches will do. Play well for a stretch. Choke when they start making progress. Wash rinse repeat.

Sucks that we have to wait til the offseason to see any changes to what is obviously not going to work. Yes, yes. I know about 'the plan'. Regardless of the draft/ development plan (which is obviously the right way to go) you can still compete today. We have enough player assets to make the playoffs. I will again say the right coach would turn enough of these losses into wins to get us there.

 

[Grind]

So what do you call a team with a group of players who never show up on a consistent basis, on any given night it's only a handful of guys that show up and aside from 2 or 3 never the same guys who BRING it every night. We have a team of floaters and the result is no play offs this year, no play offs last year, no playoffs....

Sure you need talent to win but you also need a desire to win, sorry but IMO this team just doesn't have enough of those guys.

I don't trust my or anyone elses ability to guage "effort" in a hockey game at this level.

At any level of hockey there are games where everyone was trying their hardest, gassing themselves, and the other team makes you look like you aren't doing ****. Being read like a book looks the exact same as "not trying".


I still believe that when another team plays in a way that counters what your trying to do on the ice, and you don't make any adjustments, it looks like you aren't trying. You can't get rhythm, you can't get speed, and you can't get in sync. It's not because your not trying. it's because the other teams adjusted to take that away from you.


I firmly believe this is the cause of 90% of media/public commentary on "effort". Effort's a cop out.

Those that complain about this teams effort level would make the exact same statements about any other team with this record. It just doesn't hold up to me.


effort isn't this teams problem. being a good hockey team is this teams problem.

 

[scelaton]

I missed the game as I was working, so I am reacting to the box-scores, a few highlights and what I read here.

No Jets player is going to say "Pavelec got severely outplayed by Thomas", or "Thorburn was a real dumbass for trying to fight Gudbranson after a clean hit", or "what marginal talent we have on this roster has been further decimated by injuries and strange coaching decisions". So cliches about not wanting it enough are the fill-in.

This strikes me as true. It looks like Pav had a horrible game and simply got outplayed--5 goals on 26 shots. Without good goaltending (aided and abetted by Enstrom having one of his rare bad games) this team doesn't have the horses to win consistently, especially on a night when it has no F depth at all. Perhaps it's as simple (albeit deflating) as that.

I agree frolik makes this team much better, very stoked on that pick up.

My biggest problem is this teams ability to go on runs. Moreso, my problem is our ability as fans (or the management) to fallin love with this team when it does. EVERY team goes on runs. Good teams don't keep doing what we're doing.

Agreed, which means we're not a good team yet, meaning one with consistent G, F depth and winning habits.

then they come out and talk about not wanting it? I don't think it has anythign to do with not wanting it, i think this team just isn't good enough. "Heart" is as up there in my list of excuses i hate as "consistency". the best manifestation of heart and consistency is just being better at hockey. Wether because of coaching symptoms, goal tending, or skater calibur, forget the narratives- this team just isn't good enough at hockey. it would be really nice to see management do something about that (either long term or short term, and no, doing nothing doesn't count as making us better long term)

Just getting really sick of seeing this team do JUST well enough to keep everyone thinking drastic changes don't need to be made.
My biggest problem? Halishuck and Thorburn got 16 minutes of icetime. Halishucks on the pk...thorburn is not, and i hope to hell he wasn't on the PP. 16 minutes is waaaaaaaaay too much for thorburn to be playing, let alone in a game we're losing.
I just hope this isn't pavy coming back to his career norms

They are doing lots long-term, just not the full-blown slash and burn that people want when they're pissed after a loss to a team like Fla. Admit it!

I don't buy it.
it's a bull **** narrative and i'm pretty sick of it. It's an excuse because we don't want to admit our goalie **** the bed, our coach plays a stupid system and has a love affair with useless hockey players, or that the team in general is just not as good at hockey as the 10 other teams it has to be better then.

I said in the last GDT that if the Jets lose to Florida, I was going to be severely pissed. I warned the Jets. I told 'em, but they didn't listen.
So after calming down a bit, my conclusion is that there are too many pay cheque collectors and not enough hockey players on this team. We have some good players, but we also have a few that just go along for the ride most nights or just don't have any ability. No one says you are going to win every game, but you need to go into every game with the attitude and effort that says you will. That's how championship teams play. And we are no where near that.
Unless TNSE want to see this team wallowing along playing " win one, lose one " for the next 10 years and just missing out of the playoffs again and again.....someone in this organization needs to start swinging the axe and getting heads to roll OR at least get the message out that this is not acceptable and you will be held accountable. Players, coaches, management, the ushers, the popcorn sellers, Mickey... everyone is accountable.

I get the sentiment, but whose head do you chop and to what end? If Grind is right and this team simply isn't that good or deep quite yet, why blame the coach? And if you are Chevy and have no pressure to mortgage the future for the present, you only trade someone for a return that is better long-term. I'm all for that, but it's a tricky business and best done when the fans want it least (i.e., when tradable player 'X' is on a roll and we're in love with him)