Blue Jays Discussion: And the off-season begins (list of FA's in Post #1)

[Discoverer]

He might be worth about that as a starter, but he was worth that as a rookie MLB reliever. I think he can continue to improve upon that as a reliever. We need relievers now, I don't see the logic behind keeping him as a depth option for 2017 with the hopes he can get slightly more than 1.2 fWAR in 2018 when we only have 3 starters lined up as of now.

He was a really solid reliever, you need those on a team, I don't see the reason to forgo that next year in hopes that he can be a meh starter.

I think the assumption that his ceiling is "slightly more than 1.2 fWAR" or "a meh starter" is a big part of the differing opinions here.

 

[The Nemesis]

interesting that they chose to give Bautista the QO. I mean, if he can get back to normal, 17m is an alright number. If he repeats last year, then it's no bueno and a big waste of cash.

Bautista won't accept the QO likely just out of ego/principle. He's bound and determined to go to the market and get what he expects is his big payday in spite of the craptacular year he just had. And even in spite of said craptacular year, some dumb GM is likely to throw at least $20m per at him banking on the idea that this was just an aberrant swoon season and ignore that injuries and age have him just about ready to fall off the cliff as a fielder.

 

[Discoverer]

interesting that they chose to give Bautista the QO. I mean, if he can get back to normal, 17m is an alright number. If he repeats last year, then it's no bueno and a big waste of cash.

Even with the down season, giving him the QO has always been a no-brainer.

 

[Rysto]

Bautista won't accept the QO likely just out of ego/principle. He's bound and determined to go to the market and get what he expects is his big payday in spite of the craptacular year he just had. And even in spite of said craptacular year, some dumb GM is likely to throw at least $20m per at him banking on the idea that this was just an aberrant swoon season and ignore that injuries and age have him just about ready to fall off the cliff as a fielder.

Honestly, a multiyear deal even at less than $17M per year would probably be a better deal for Bautista than 1 year. If he takes the 1 year, another down year or a major injury could cost him a ton of money.

 

[JS19]

interesting that they chose to give Bautista the QO. I mean, if he can get back to normal, 17m is an alright number. If he repeats last year, then it's no bueno and a big waste of cash.

The QO isn't necessarily for the figure, it's to make sure they get an asset in return.

 

[LaCarriere]

Bautista won't accept the QO likely just out of ego/principle. He's bound and determined to go to the market and get what he expects is his big payday in spite of the craptacular year he just had. And even in spite of said craptacular year, some dumb GM is likely to throw at least $20m per at him banking on the idea that this was just an aberrant swoon season and ignore that injuries and age have him just about ready to fall off the cliff as a fielder.

It's not out of ego/principle. There's a reason the vast majority of players have declined QOs that have been offered them, and it's because if a team is willing to spend 17M (15M last year, 14M the year before), then that player is more than good enough to get a multi-year deal. Top players don't sign 1 year deals.

A very conservative open market deal would be 3/45 for Bautista, and at his age that's a much better deal than 1/17. Also, to think he won't bounce back after this year is a bit much. I guarantee you, even at his age, this was a down year for him.

 

[TF97]

I wouldn't mind Atkins going after John Lamb (Reds). He just underwent another back surgery and is out of options, but a move to the pen could benefit him.

 

[The Nemesis]

It's not out of ego/principle. There's a reason the vast majority of players have declined QOs that have been offered them, and it's because if a team is willing to spend 17M (15M last year, 14M the year before), then that player is more than good enough to get a multi-year deal. Top players don't sign 1 year deals.

true. I'm just saying that at the very least he wouldn't accept the QO just out of ego. There's more at work, obviously, but even if there wasn't he likley wouldn't take the QO just out of his own sense of self-worth.

A very conservative open market deal would be 3/45 for Bautista, and at his age that's a much better deal than 1/17. Also, to think he won't bounce back after this year is a bit much. I guarantee you, even at his age, this was a down year for him.

I expect his bat will come back some. But he's quickly becoming unplayable in the field.

 

[Fantomas]

I'd want Bautista to agree to play 1b as part of the deal.

 

[Woodman19]

Time to move on and get younger.

 

[Eyedea]

Time to move on and get younger.

Younger is nice, but not the best option unless you're getting better immediately.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Rogers Sportsnet’s Shi Davidi joined Bob McCown and Damien Cox to discuss his takeaways from Toronto Blue Jays GM Ross Atkins’ season-ending press conference. Davidi was interested by Atkins comments that the organization wants to win now, and that they’re making Jose and Edwin a priority. He discussed the progression of Blue Jays’ prospects, and what a new Rogers CEO means for the club.

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_dema...n-and-Damien-Cox-BM,DC-20161024-Interview.mp3

 

[The Nemesis]

Rogers Sportsnet’s Shi Davidi joined Bob McCown and Damien Cox to discuss his takeaways from Toronto Blue Jays GM Ross Atkins’ season-ending press conference. Davidi was interested by Atkins comments that the organization wants to win now, and that they’re making Jose and Edwin a priority. He discussed the progression of Blue Jays’ prospects, and what a new Rogers CEO means for the club.

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_dema...n-and-Damien-Cox-BM,DC-20161024-Interview.mp3

Oh dear god. All they need now is Steve Simmons to complete the unholy trinity.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Toronto Blue Jays GM Ross Atkins joins Tim and Sid to discuss the team's playoff run, offseason roster plans and if he is hoping to bring back Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion.

Ross Atkins says both Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion love playing in Toronto.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-a...arnacion-love-playing-toronto-ross-atkins-ts/

 

[Woodman19]

Younger is nice, but not the best option unless you're getting better immediately.

I was referring specifically to Bautista.

 

[613Leafer]

I'd want Bautista to agree to play 1b as part of the deal.

Why bother when we could probably more easily get EE signed to do that? He's younger, has less ego, sounds more interested in staying here, has a history of playing 1B, and was a much better hitter this past year.

Even if Bautista bounces back, he's not a noticeably better hitter than EE. Their 2015 seasons were pretty comparable to each other.

 

[frost king]

Have been following this team from day one at Exhibition Staduim, why can't for once, a major Blue Jay Star, for once gracefully retire with the team? Why is it, that every major star we have had it Toronto, whether baseball or hockey, for whatever reason, through management or money demands have we chased them away? Every Blue Jay great never finished his career here. The Yankees and Red Sox seem to take care of their own, but here in Toronto we chew them up and spit them out. For once I would like to see it happen here.

 

[theaub]

Bautista/Edwin splitting duties at 1B/DH is the dream but I think someone will make the mistake of giving Jose $$ to play OF.

Have been following this team from day one at Exhibition Staduim, why can't for once, a major Blue Jay Star, for once gracefully retire with the team? Why is it, that every major star we have had it Toronto, whether baseball or hockey, for whatever reason, through management or money demands have we chased them away? Every Blue Jay great never finished his career here. The Yankees and Red Sox seem to take care of their own, but here in Toronto we chew them up and spit them out. For once I would like to see it happen here.

Ortiz/Rivera never made more than $16M per season - Jeter topped out at $17M after his age 36 season.

If our FA's are willing to take those AAV's then sure.

 

[Eyedea]

I was referring specifically to Bautista.

I know, my point still stands.

 

[zeke]

I'll say this - maybe i'm naive but it does sound as if negotiations with EE and Jose are genuine, and not for show.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Regarding Bautista and his pending free agency, is he looking to cash in on his last deal or will he ring chase? Would he rather take a 4 year/$90 million deal from the White Sox (hypothetical) or a 3 year/$60 million deal from the Red Sox?

I don't think I've read or heard much on this angle. Obviously he wants both. But the top teams are less likely going to give him what he wants than some weaker teams willing to overpay in free agency to make a splash.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I maintain we need a culture change - and that can be done by moving on from Bautista. He gets on a lot - something I think the Jays lacked last year, but he's a distraction that isn't needed (IMO) for what he now brings and he tends to have selfish atbats. Focus on EE and depending on what the Reds will eat salary wise, look at Votto or another player who fits the mold of a table setter for EE and Donaldson and Tulo etc.

That's my opinion - and I don't know what I'm talking about really, so do the opposite.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Bautista/Edwin splitting duties at 1B/DH is the dream but I think someone will make the mistake of giving Jose $$ to play OF.



.

I think so too. And I have a feeling Jose is too proud to just play 1b/DH

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[sabresEH]

I know he had a terrible second half but any chance we qualify saunders? My thinking is if he accepts you have your DH at 17mill(expensive but we're willing to give that to JB to DH) who can also fill in in the OF. If he rejects and gets a multi year deal from someone we get the pick.