Analyzing Management and Development

[LAKings88]

I keep seeing the recurrent themes that:

1.) LA isn’t developing players the right way

2.) Management and coaching are terrible

I want nothing more than to see this team breakout and be enjoyable to watch. I would like an exciting product.

I’m still excited to see these young stable of prospects make it to LA. From draft tendencies to handling of players I still think some patience is needed. I don’t want to see skill stifled but some of these skilled prospects have major warts. The kings are clearly trying to develop all around players that are committed to winning. Look at Calgary’s success this year. Sutter knows grinding defensive hockey can be successful. Blake and Robitaille were part of that group that wanted more skill and speed. People forget how stagnant the team was and how Sutter and Lombardi were facing some of the same criticism towards the end.

Blake largely cleared the locker room but I think the group still knows what it took to win cups. They have drafted high and while picking skilled players they still took character and all-around over pure skill guys (Zegras, Stutzle)
They are banking on this formula. It is so hard to win a championship and find the right mix. I do think they need a consistent game breaker but so does every team.

The top prospects aren’t even here yet:
Byfield
Turcotte
Clarke
Faber

So many other good young guys in the system too. So much hand ringing on this season. It would be great to make the playoffs but I still think this is another transition year as much as the last few years. The team is still evolving. They are close so it’s hard to have patience. Danault and RV were brought in to make the team better and insulate the rookies. The team is getting there and Doughty and Walker being out was a huge blow this year.

The boards have been so negative lately. I’m an armchair gm complaining about guys who know way more about hockey than I ever will. Wrobo recently talked about Durzi being walked around nightly and how he had to work on his game. I think fans get blinded by flash and shiny new toys. We rarely pay attention to whole picture. It’s almost video game gm syndrome. I think it’s good to take a step back once in awhile. The Kings next era is around the corner. It’s coming my peeps.

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[JTeller97]

I keep seeing the recurrent themes that:

1.) LA isn’t developing players the right way

2.) Management and coaching are terrible

I want nothing more than to see this team breakout and be enjoyable to watch. I would like an exciting product.

I’m still excited to see these young stable of prospects make it to LA. From draft tendencies to handling of players I still think some patience is needed. I don’t want to see skill stifled but some of these skilled prospects have major warts. The kings are clearly trying to develop all around players that are committed to winning. Look at Calgary’s success this year. Sutter knows grinding defensive hockey can be successful. Blake and Robitaille where part of that group that wanted more skill and speed. People forget how stagnant the team was and how Sutter and Lombardi were facing some of the same criticism towards the end.

Blake largely cleared the locker room but I think the group still knows what it took to win cups. They have drafted high and while picking skilled players they still took character and all-around over pure skill guys (Zegras, Stutzle)
They are banking on this formula. It is so hard to win a championship and find the right mix. I do think they need a consistent game breaker but so does every team.

The top prospects aren’t even here yet:
Byfield
Turcotte
Clarke
Faber

So many other good young guys in the system too. So much hand ringing on this season. It would be great to make the playoffs but I still think this is another transition year as much as the last few years. The team is still evolving. They are close so it’s hard to have patience. Danault and RV were brought in to make the team better and insulate the rookies. The team is getting there and Doughty and Walker being out was a huge blow this year.

The boards have been so negative lately. I’m an armchair gm complaining about guys who know way more about hockey than I ever will. Wrobo recently talked about Durzi being walked around nightly and how he had to work on his game. I think fans get blinded by flash and shiny new toys. We rarely pay attention to whole picture. It’s almost video game gm syndrome. I think it’s good to take a step back once in awhile. The Kings next era is around the corner. It’s coming my peeps.

I completely agree. This was always going to be transition year with playoffs as a POSSIBILITY but not a guarantee. All I personally wanted this year was a more competitive Big club (we've virtually been in every game without our HOF #1 D) and I also wanted to see our young players and prospects improve and be successful in Ontario ( they're one of the top teams in the A). I think the frustration stems from the fact that we really haven't tasted any of the fruits from our suckage over these prior seasons and our blue chips haven't been impactful to this point with Vilardi struggling, Turcotte being the only top 10 pick from the 19' draft to not see NHL ice, and Byfields injury misfortune. I do think the second half of the season will leave us more optimistic about the future and I expect at least one more big acquisition in the off season as we begin our march back into legitimate relevance.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I want nothing more than to see this team breakout and be enjoyable to watch. I would like an exciting product.

The record doesn't necessarily reflect it, but I think we have that right now. Last 4 losses, all winnable...all 1 goal games. The last game, how many glorious scoring chances did they have (just couldn't bury it). King are exciting to watch, RIGHT NOW. I love the pace this team is playing with...gonna love it more when there are more wins to show for it.

 

[Lt Dan]

I can't believe that people forgot how streaky this team is

We just need to streak the other way now

 

[LAKings88]

The record doesn't necessarily reflect it, but I think we have that right now. Last 4 losses, all winnable...all 1 goal games. The last game, how many glorious scoring chances did they have (just couldn't bury it). King are exciting to watch, RIGHT NOW. I love the pace this team is playing with...gonna love it more when there are more wins to show for it.

Winning is exciting no matter the style imho. I was captivated in the Gretzky era as a young kid. I think nostalgia and being fresh to the game skew that a bit in my mind. Nothing compares to 12-14. The Ziggy years were fun for a hot second. I have enjoyed this season so far. This team just needs that next gear mentality.

 

[Lt Dan]

Winning is exciting no matter the style imho. I was captivated in the Gretzky era as a young kid. I think nostalgia and being fresh to the game skew that a bit in my mind. Nothing compares to 12-14. The Ziggy years were fun for a hot second. I have enjoyed this season so far. This team just needs that next gear mentality.

We need to make LAK88 an alternate Captain here.

 

[LAKings88]

We need to make LAK88 an alternate Captain here.

We have enough forwards/grinders as it is.

 

[kingsfan]

I completely agree. I've spent far less time on these boards the past week because of the mindset around here. We added some vets and were expected to take a step but we were always a bubble playoff team this year. That's what we are and are looking to develop consistency. Some of the posts around here are utterly nauseating and I wonder how some can actually consider themselves fans.

 

[Bandit]

Why so positive?

We have two rookie forwards who were allegedly offensive weapons playing in the bottom 6. Yippee.

 

[LAKings88]

Why so positive?

We have two rookie forwards who were allegedly offensive weapons playing in the bottom 6. Yippee.

Im not worried about Kupari or Kaliyev.

Kupari was never a big time scoring prospect. He has skill and speed but he is almost in that Vilardi zone tho. Seems like he had trouble transitioning to the wing. What happens when Byfield slots in? 4th line center? Not sure what his future is honestly. I still see JAD as an ideal 4th line center but maybe Kupari can become that. I guess Kopi won’t be around forever.

Kaliyev could get a shot on the top wing but do you bump Kempe or Arvidsson? RV hasn’t looked all that special to me, maybe he needs to have a different look on another line? Arthur seems like Toffoli 2.0.

 

[Matt13]

I have an opinion and a keyboard. I'll be whatever I want to be.

 

[Choralone]

Bjornfot and Anderson have been doing great on D. But some complain that they wouldn't be in the position they are in because Doughty went down. So fans invent and complain about an alternate timelines where things are worse. THAT's the level of negativity that's become ridiculous.

Our "bad" four-loss streak is:

• One OTL at the end of a wildly successful road trip, that came as the team's 3rd road game in 4 nights
• A loss to a top team in the league that we held to a scoreless tie until the last 5 minutes (and the second goal was an empty netter)
• A one-goal loss to one of the top teams in the league, where the young team answered every goal (except the last, obviously) and was in it the whole time
• A one-goal loss to a shit team. No argument, I expected a win here.

 

[bland]

I completely agree. I've spent far less time on these boards the past week because of the mindset around here. We added some vets and were expected to take a step but we were always a bubble playoff team this year. That's what we are and are looking to develop consistency. Some of the posts around here are utterly nauseating and I wonder how some can actually consider themselves fans.

Sounds like a Southern Belle getting the vapors at Daddy's cotillion. This is the absolute worst kind of fan garbage, the whole "you aren't a fan unless you just sit and cheer" nonsense.

How dare you question the fandom of those who want the team to move out of the stagnation of the Blake years and progress?

This team hasn't improved anywhere but on paper in the prospect rankings while team after team ahead of them in the standings actually use their prospects in positions to succeed.

Nothing here will change until the vets feelings aren't given a higher priotity by the frat house than actual forward thinking progress. And it's available to use RIGHT NOW.

And that is a 100% positive statement.

 

[King'sPawn]

As I have mentioned before, the best forwards the Kings have developed* since 2006 are Toffoli and Pearson. Kempe a possible third?

They are good at churning out NHL players, but cultivating top-end talent up front has been an ongoing issue.

So, until we actually fix what's wrong, and prepare a new wave of younger players taking ownership and building a new core, I'm skeptical.

*developed, meaning they have spent time in the minors/juniors for multiple years and had productive seasons in LA. NHL ready players like Iafallo, and players who found success on other teams like Schenn and Simmonds, don't count

 

[LAKings88]

Sounds like a Southern Belle getting the vapors at Daddy's cotillion. This is the absolute worst kind of fan garbage, the whole "you aren't a fan unless you just sit and cheer" nonsense.

How dare you question the fandom of those who want the team to move out of the stagnation of the Blake years and progress?

This team hasn't improved anywhere but on paper in the prospect rankings while team after team ahead of them in the standings actually use their prospects in positions to succeed.

Nothing here will change until the vets feelings aren't given a higher priotity by the frat house than actual forward thinking progress. And it's available to use RIGHT NOW.

And that is a 100% positive statement.

I get your frustration and I’m not saying you can’t be critical. It’s a discussion board to vent feelings and ideas. I just feel like lately it’s I know better than the pros vibe that has been dominate on the boards. I don’t know, there are some long term fans who have seen a lot of hockey. I just don’t think actions always match what management are accused of.

Vilardi, Clague, Durzi, Tkachev, even Kaliyev all have things to improve on. Injuries derailed a couple of them. Brown has been taken off the top line as many were calling for. Ontario is loaded so who drops down there when sending more guys down? We assume Vilardi is on the outs but do we really know? I speculated based on numbers, next thing you know they try him at wing.

 

[LAKings88]

As I have mentioned before, the best forwards the Kings have developed* since 2006 are Toffoli and Pearson. Kempe a possible third?

They are good at churning out NHL players, but cultivating top-end talent up front has been an ongoing issue.

So, until we actually fix what's wrong, and prepare a new wave of younger players taking ownership and building a new core, I'm skeptical.

*developed, meaning they have spent time in the minors/juniors for multiple years and had productive seasons in LA. NHL ready players like Iafallo, and players who found success on other teams like Schenn and Simmonds, don't count

Both players were late first early second picks. Kempe is another. Kupari the same.
Byfield and Turcotte are top five picks and at least one needs to hit. Preferably both. Aside from those two, who were the Kings top forwards to produce? Amadio, Shore, Dowd, or Weal?

The Kings seem to actively draft more skill lately too.

Fagemo
Chromiak
Laffferiere
Jamison
Simotival (so)
Thomas
Traded for Madden

Kaliyev is up with big club trying to cement what his role will be. I think they are trying and I don’t think many of these guys would have been DL archetypes.

 

[kingsboy11]

I try my best to optimistic and realistic about this team and where its at currently. I think there's a lot to be more optimistic about than previous seasons in terms of systems and development. My issues derive from the expectations that the players, the coaches and the front office placed on themselves and they all want playoffs. There's only so much wheel spinning that you can do, you have to make actual progress in the standings and you can't finish bottom 10 anymore.

I think what makes me optimistic over this losing streak is that we were able to win all these games, whereas last year we would've gotten our asses kicked in all them and we wouldn't be fighting back. There's elements in our game that hasn't been there for years. But at the end of the day if you want to be a playoff team you have to win some of these games, especially against the Yotes and that loss probably pissed me off more than any other game this year.

 

[LAKings88]

I try my best to optimistic and realistic about this team and where its at currently. I think there's a lot to be more optimistic about than previous seasons in terms of systems and development. My issues derive from the expectations that the players, the coaches and the front office placed on themselves and they all want playoffs. There's only so much wheel spinning that you can do, you have to make actual progress in the standings and you can't finish bottom 10 anymore.

I think what makes me optimistic over this losing streak is that we were able to win all these games, whereas last year we would've gotten our asses kicked in all them and we wouldn't be fighting back. There's elements in our game that hasn't been there for years. But at the end of the day if you want to be a playoff team you have to win some of these games, especially against the Yotes and that loss probably pissed me off more than any other game this year.

The yotes were painful. They always get up for LA. I want that killer instinct to show this year which I still don’t see yet. But they are in close games and without Doughty and Walker. I just hope they don’t revert to old habits and keep it going forward.

 

[Herby]

Alot of the anger seems to be directed at the supposed unfair treatment of young players. This is HFBoards, the HF used to stand for Hockey's Future (not sure if it still does) but either way, the obsession with playing youth and the feeling that young players aren't given a chance is a staple thought on every team board on this site, this one is no different.

I am no Blake fan, but the anti-youth thing has no basis in reality. I have said numerous times, if the Kings are so anti-youth why have so many U-21 players been given a chance to play NHL games under Blake? None of the people who scream about Blake hating youth ever want to address it, but the facts are quite clear.

JAD (19), Byfield (18), Kaliyev (19), Bjornfot (18), Anderson (20), Vilardi (20), Kupari (20)

Why would someone who is anti-youth or slow-playing deserving youth have so many young players play NHL games?

 

[LAKings88]

Alot of the anger seems to be directed at the supposed unfair treatment of young players. This is HFBoards, the HF used to stand for Hockey's Future (not sure if it still does) but either way, the obsession with playing youth and the feeling that young players aren't given a chance is a staple thought on every team board on this site, this one is no different.

I am no Blake fan, but the anti-youth thing has no basis in reality. I have said numerous times, if the Kings are so anti-youth why have so many U-21 players been given a chance to play NHL games under Blake? None of the people who scream about Blake hating youth ever want to address it, but the facts are quite clear.

JAD (19), Byfield (18), Kaliyev (19), Bjornfot (18), Anderson (20), Vilardi (20), Kupari (20)

Why would someone who is anti-youth or slow-playing deserving youth have so many young players play NHL games?

Agreed, this is what I see too. Some of these guys were poised to make earlier debuts but were hit with injuries.

I can see an argument for maybe playing Durzi over Maatta but again I’m not in that dressing room. Every team deals with vet/rookie decisions and behind the seen stuff we never hear about. Clague has been very sheltered in his ice time but he is getting pp time none-the-less. Durzi and Clague are so similar do you want both in together? Offense from the back end is needed. Who gets sent down when Doughty returns?

 

[LAKings88]

Oops

 

[King'sPawn]

Both players were late first early second picks. Kempe is another. Kupari the same.
Byfield and Turcotte are top five picks and at least one needs to hit. Preferably both. Aside from those two, who were the Kings top forwards to produce? Amadio, Shore, Dowd, or Weal?

The Kings seem to actively draft more skill lately too.

Fagemo
Chromiak
Laffferiere
Jamison
Simotival (so)
Thomas
Traded for Madden

Kaliyev is up with big club trying to cement what his role will be. I think they are trying and I don’t think many of these guys would have been DL archetypes.

You asked why. I'm telling you why.

And again, if the Kings can only develop top line players with top picks, then that further reinforces development is a question mark.

Yes, higher caliber players get picked earlier. But diamonds in the rough are always available later.

The lack of top line forwards being developed in the pipeline means either the scouting needs work or development does.

Other teams further along have younger players playing bigger roles.

 

[LAKings88]

You asked why. I'm telling you why.

And again, if the Kings can only develop top line players with top picks, then that further reinforces development is a question mark.

Yes, higher caliber players get picked earlier. But diamonds in the rough are always available later.

The lack of top line forwards being developed in the pipeline means either the scouting needs work or development does.

Other teams further along have younger players playing bigger roles.

Again tho, under DL those kinds of players weren’t drafted. These guys aren’t cooked yet but they are there because of the current regime.

Kempe is in the lineup. Kupari is too. Kaliyev is up. Sounds like Vilardi isn’t going to be in the AHL past two weeks. Byfield would have been. JAD was up and still highly regarded.

The next wave is coming too. You can’t have Kopi and 11 rookies.

if anything you can argue better players could have been taken in some of those spots.

Maybe you can argue system has neutered guys but I think that is to earlier to say with this crop.

 

[Lt Dan]

Alot of the anger seems to be directed at the supposed unfair treatment of young players. This is HFBoards, the HF used to stand for Hockey's Future (not sure if it still does) but either way, the obsession with playing youth and the feeling that young players aren't given a chance is a staple thought on every team board on this site, this one is no different.

I am no Blake fan, but the anti-youth thing has no basis in reality. I have said numerous times, if the Kings are so anti-youth why have so many U-21 players been given a chance to play NHL games under Blake? None of the people who scream about Blake hating youth ever want to address it, but the facts are quite clear.

JAD (19), Byfield (18), Kaliyev (19), Bjornfot (18), Anderson (20), Vilardi (20), Kupari (20)

Why would someone who is anti-youth or slow-playing deserving youth have so many young players play NHL games?

Herby gets my nod for our other alternate captain!

 

[King'sPawn]

Again tho, under DL those kinds of players weren’t drafted. These guys aren’t cooked yet but they are there because of the current regime.

Kempe is in the lineup. Kupari is too. Kaliyev is up. Sounds like Vilardi isn’t going to be in the AHL past two weeks. Byfield would have been. JAD was up and still highly regarded.

The next wave is coming too. You can’t have Kopi and 11 rookies.

Kempe is on the top line, but he's in the streaky Toffoli caliber.

Kupari and Kaliyev are in the bottom 6.

JAD when brought up will be a bottom 6.

The TOP 6 this year is:
Kopitar - played in Sweden then was NHL ready. Never came through the system
Iafallo - NHL ready out of college. Didn't go through the system
Danault - UFA signing
Athanasiou - UFA signing
Kempe - middle-six player. Not dependable on the top line
Arvidsson - trade

The best forwards in the organization have spent virtually zero time developing.

Look at the defense:
Anderson - time in the AHL
Bjornfot - seemed NHL ready but still played a bit in the AHL
Roy - time in the AHL
Walker (injured) - played in the AHL.
Clague - time in the AHL

Then you can look at Muzzin, Martinez, etc who all spent time in the AHL, and showing they are capable to get key minutes in some capacity (top-4, PK, PP, etc).

And we need to stop blaming DL. They focused on character. But they didn't ignore skill. They drafted Schenn and Simmonds, who again, thrived offensively outside of the organization.