Confirmed Trade: [ANA/VGK] Evgenii Dadonov, cond. 2023/24 2nd round pick for John Moore, Ryan Kesler [OFFICIALLY VOIDED]

[Steerpike]

Fine, but can you please explain to me how you submit written proof over a phonecall?

Under normal circumstances they would obviously just fax/email over their copy of the list. Here it seems the Sens concluded the list was old, and thus attested that there was no list in force. No fuss was made about it because Vegas wasn't on the list to begin with.

I doubt there is a formal process for proving a document doesn't exist, or that process would have likely caught this error.

 

[Emerald Duck]

The happiest guy with these findings is Dadorov's agent. It was proven that he correctly filed the M-NTC paperwork with the NHL Head Office on June 30 ...

 

[Korpse]

The happiest guy with these findings is Dadorov's agent. It was proven that he correctly filed the M-NTC paperwork with the NHL Head Office on June 30 ...

A part of the problem here is that it isn't filled with the NHL, just to team the player is under contract with, but I'm sure he is relieved.

 

[MNNumbers]

League sources say Ottawa to blame. Does that surprise anyone?

If some of blame should like with league, would they admit it?

Probably not.

 

[Hansen]

Are the Knights over the cap now? Is there some sort of penalty?

 

[BondraTime]

The happiest guy with these findings is Dadorov's agent. It was proven that he correctly filed the M-NTC paperwork with the NHL Head Office on June 30 ...

With the Ottawa Senators, not the NHL head office

 

[mundyc3]

Bet Vegas is stating that they would not have traded for the player (Dadonov) if Ottawa didn't falsely present him as a player that who did not submit or incorrectly submit his trade list. Vegas verified this with the league before the initial trade and the league had the same information. Ottawa didn't check their spam folder lol.

 

[TheBeard]

Dadonov coming back to the Vegas Lockerroom.

 

[innitfam]

He cannot play at all until next season.

Why specifically? Can't he just be traded (correctly) and play the remainder of the year but no playoffs?

 

[KingsCourt]

Bahahahaha... That's it, that's the post

 

[hatterson]

This is exactly what happened in the Ottawa-VGK deal. There was nothing in the m-NTC clause of Dadanov’s contract that trading him from Ottawa to Vegas was a problem since they weren’t on the list.

Right, but what I meant is that it wouldn't surprise me for the league to include some more formal documentation around a team proving what a player's NMC allows for a given year that's signed by the team and the agent. It would still be maintained by the team, but would have to be included as part of the trade paperwork.

Obviously if that's already the case and Ottawa submitted fraudulent documentation as part of the original trade, that would significantly change things.

 

[mundyc3]

 

[John Strachan]

I'm not sure why you are assuming such a system couldn't be designed to protect this information from other GMs. The point is that if the league wants (or in this case, needs) to rule on a situation in a timely manner they will have the complete and up-to-date information on file at Central Registry to be able to deal with this effectively in a matter of minutes instead of days. The GM that holds the contract will be the only one to know the details, and there should be consequences for teams whose GMs send deals to Central Registry with violations of the players' contractual rights known to them at the time.

Actually, the other person that knows is the player who signed the contract. And, as happened in this case, he stepped in and stopped the deal. That is the thing about the ”phonecall” - the player isn’t always involved even though he is the one most affected by the trade. There have been many times that the “trade phonecall” couldn’t complete the deal because the player wasn’t available to assert that he was going to waive his NTC or a portion of it.

Just remember - no legal deal can be completed over the phone, at some point, the lawyers are going to want to have real paper to back up any deal / financial agreement entered into with any corporation. A verbal agreement over the phone isn’t much more than an MOU. And it is the duty of both parties to review that paperwork for accuracy before signing a contract that completes a deal even if it means submitting revisions over and over again. And most lawyers aren’t going to draw up multi page contracts for a phonecall because they know that they will almost certainly have to revise it before they can get everyone to sign. If anyone ever tries to tell you that you are committed to a deal over the phone without any additional paperwork or signatures and threatens to sue you if you don’t abide, hang up on them immediately.

 

[John Strachan]

Right, but what I meant is that it wouldn't surprise me for the league to include some more formal documentation around a team proving what a player's NMC allows for a given year that's signed by the team and the agent. It would still be maintained by the team, but would have to be included as part of the trade paperwork.

Obviously if that's already the case and Ottawa submitted fraudulent documentation as part of the original trade, that would significantly change things.

And if the deal falls through on the phonecall, the other party now has useful information that can be used as a competitive bargaining chip against the other team. Once he has seen the team list, he has extra knowledge about exactly what kind of a bind a team is in in trying to move a player.

This follows under the strategy of “trust but verify”.

 

[hatterson]

Actually, the other person that knows is the player who signed the contract. And, as happened in this case, he stepped in and stopped the deal. That is the thing about the ”phonecall” - the player isn’t always involved even though he is the one most affected by the trade. There have been many times that the “trade phonecall” couldn’t complete the deal because the player wasn’t available to assert that he was going to waive his NTC or a portion of it.

Just remember - no legal deal can be completed over the phone, at some point, the lawyers are going to want to have real paper to back up any deal / financial agreement entered into with any corporation. A verbal agreement over the phone isn’t much more than an MOU. And it is the duty of both parties to review that paperwork for accuracy before signing a contract that completes a deal even if it means submitting revisions over and over again. And most lawyers aren’t going to draw up multi page contracts for a phonecall because they know that they will almost certainly have to revise it before they can get everyone to sign. If anyone ever tries to tell you that you are committed to a deal over the phone without any additional paperwork or signatures and threatens to sue you if you don’t abide, hang up on them immediately.

On a related note, if someone tries to give you legal advice on an internet hockey forum, maybe double check it with your lawyer before you act in that situation.

 

[theslatcher]

If that's truly the case, I have no idea why. Maybe they did.

Why didn't Vegas know the full contract status of their own player?

Dadonov seemed aware, you'd think his own team would as well.

Hell, even Anaheim could've checked Capfriendly while in negotiations, and asked Vegas, "hey, what's the deal with this limited NTC"?

You know, basic stuff that could've avoided this whole mess.

I still pin this on Vegas though. Their player, their ****-up.

And yet the league puts the blame solely on Ottawa...

 

[stator]

Ok, so what does Vegas have to do if players are cleared to play? If there was ever a time for the league to look into the status of those players, I'd say the time is now. I mean they're technically not supposed to leave healthy players on IR for cap purposes, right? It's time the league took a look into this whole issue, because the suspicion of abuse is certainly there

I read that as meaning Greg saying to break some knee caps?

 

[hatterson]

And if the deal falls through on the phonecall, the other party now has useful information that can be used as a competitive bargaining chip against the other team. Once he has seen the team list, he has extra knowledge about exactly what kind of a bind a team is in in trying to move a player.

This follows under the strategy of “trust but verify”.

I didn’t say present it to the other team, I said present it to the league. There’s no reason that every piece of information shared with the league would be shared with both parties of the call.

 

[stator]

That's news to me and it doesnt make sense as far as Vegas actions.

More suspicious is Sens silence on the matter. Your team is being accused of misleading another team and you have no comment?

The Sens are not involved in the Knights/Ducks trade. Why should they say anything, and why do people think they are compelled to do so?

Their trade with the Knights concluded back in July of last year.

HFs really likes conspiracy theories, something I though I'd never say here.

 

[Fatass]

We're probably never going to find out what caused this debacle.

Radio here in Van saying some reporter back east (didn't catch his name) reporting the league is laying blame with the Sens.
Seems like the league is doint their bests CYA.

 

[JoeSakic13]

The NHL’s official statement on not blaming Vegas:

 

[John Strachan]

Verbeek should read the player's contract before he completes the trade.

If there is a special clause in the contract, such as a modified no-trade clause, Verbeek should ask for a copy of the no-trade list.

If Vegas says there is no no-trade list, then Verbeek should say then please give me written confirmation of that from the player's agent. I know what you're telling me, but it doesn't sound right and there might be some mistake. I can't count on what you're saying, and I need to be sure.

I'm a lawyer, and I've been having conversations like that on behalf of my clients almost every day for the past 36 years. You just don't take someone's word for it when it comes to third-party rights.

Vegas should have done the same as well.

Once again, the phonecall is not the completion of the deal, at best it is a Memo of Understanding. Until the phonecall is completed and lawyers begin to draw up the contract, you probably don’t want to share confidential documents like player contracts. After the phonecall, is the period when you confirm that the other side has given you all the information and when you can ask questions about things that don’t look right, which is followed by revisions until both sides agree to sign to finalize a deal.

Anaheim is blameless here and shouldn’t expect any more information until they reach the MOU stage where the deal is agreed upon and all that needs to be done Is to fill out the paperwork and sign it.

 

[Mr Positive]

Radio here in Van saying some reporter back east (didn't catch his name) reporting the league is laying blame with the Sens.
Seems like the league is doint their bests CYA.

I'm going to wait on an official declaration of that from the league. Some reporter saying there is someone at the NHL blaming the Sens is weak.

 

[mouser]

I may be wrong, but they would have opened up $5M in space as Moore is on LTIR. Vegas may have had to put someone else on LTIR to activate Stone. I wonder if that's why there were rumours about Reilly Smith being available. A Dadonov trade and Smith trade would have opened up 10M, enough to activate Stone. I bet he sits on LTIR until the playoffs now.

Moore wasn’t on LTIR and it’s not clear he could be added to LTIR as he was injured while playing in the AHL.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Why specifically? Can't he just be traded (correctly) and play the remainder of the year but no playoffs?

No, because he's not a UFA that someone is signing after the trade deadline. He was on a team's (Vegas') protected list as a roster player. If he was a UFA he could play in the regular season but not the playoffs.