Proposal: ANA / MTL at the draft

[A Loyal Dog]

If the Ducks are giving up Zegras AND the 3oa AND another late 1st, they'll be going after a big name. Other big names have been traded for less.

What about simply Zegras + 3 for Reinbacher + 5?

We just want to ensure we don't get f***ed at the draft by Columbus again. Also, Grant McCagg has been hearing Anaheim is looking at 1 of Sennecke/Yakemchuk. Imagine getting both Reinbacher and Sennecke.

 

[FiveTacos]

What about simply Zegras + 3 for Reinbacher + 5?

This won't affect you guys if you're going D, since both Columbus and Montreal are going for forwards. We just want to make sure we get the forward we want and not lose it to Columbus, again.

Again, Zegras + 3oa probably gets them in the door on talks for any big names that pop up.

Put it this way, if you were being asked to give up Caufield and the 5oa, are you going after a star player or more picks and prospects?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

What about simply Zegras + 3 for Reinbacher + 5?

We just want to ensure we don't get f***ed by Columbus again.

I think the issue is

3rd > 5th
Zegras = Reinbacher

-id say putting an = between reinbacher and zegras is very generous from a value perspective, and could prob comfortably say zegras > Reinbacher
Anaheim is trading the better player and better pick and gaining nothing

Not to mention if we added Reinbacher at the expense of zegras , we prob don’t have to go dmen anymore

 

[A Loyal Dog]

Again, Zegras + 3oa probably gets them in the door on talks for any big names that pop up.

Put it this way, if you were being asked to give up Caufield and the 5oa, are you going after a star player or more picks and prospects?

It depends on 2 things:

1. What is the team's goal? Are they rebuilding or trying to compete. MTL is "apparently" wanting to compete next season (I really don't see it), so that's why they might want Zegras. He's also great friends with Caufield, Suzuki, Slafkovsky, etc. Martin St-Louis knows him really well too. Anaheim strikes me as still rebuilding (almost done, I mean your team's future looks really solid throughout).
2. What prospect would we be talking about? Someone like Reinbacher is up there with Levshunov as top RHD prospects.

But I can understand if Ducks don't want to swap 3rd and 5th picks, and would rather have a player than a prospect.

 

[jellybeans]

and 26 + aint worth zegras


Hes easily worth reinbacher.

Not a chance.

 

[FiveTacos]

It depends on 2 things:

1. What is the team's goal? Are they rebuilding or trying to compete. MTL is "apparently" wanting to compete next season (I really don't see it), so that's why they might want Zegras.

The thing is Zegras is young enough and yet has enough track record of production to be both enticing to a rebuilding team OR a competing team. Same with Caufield. Throw in a top 5 pick and you should be expecting a proven high-impact player in return. The kind of prospects that might tempt me to go another way, are prospects who I have no chance of drafting at 3 or 5. Which is to say, a 1oa type talent. So no, not happening.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Not a chance.

Much higher chance than him going for 26 + scraps

 

[samsagat]

You don't trade a recently drafted top 5 overall RHD for an unidimensional offensive hot dog.

Reinbacher isn't the most flashy, but he's the kind of defenseman you win championship with.

He's 6'3" 210 pds, righty and skates like the wind.

Plus he's underrated offensively.

He had the most points for a draft year defenseman in the history of Swiss NLA .

So no way Habs give him for a guy like Zegras.

Keep him.

 

[FiveTacos]

Reinbacher isn't the most flashy, but he's the kind of defenseman you win championship with.

He may yet prove to be a good or even great D in the NHL, but a bit early to be giving him Conn Smythe votes don't you think?

 

[Mersss]

Much higher chance than him going for 26 + scraps

Lol

No. Trouble maker who can't play defense and are primadonas don't hold that much value unless traded for other trouble makers, see Dubois vs Laine.

See it thay way. Dach was traded for 13oa. Bigger, stronger, higher upside.l, better contrac.

Zegras isn't worth more. Maybe a pick around 20.

So. 26 + a B prospect os around the range

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think the issue is

3rd > 5th
Zegras = Reinbacher

-id say putting an = between reinbacher and zegras is very generous from a value perspective, and could prob comfortably say zegras > Reinbacher
Anaheim is trading the better player and better pick and gaining nothing

Not to mention if we added Reinbacher at the expense of zegras , we prob don’t have to go dmen anymore

I just don't think the Habs bypass Michkov to take Reinbacher and then move Reinbacher for Zegras in any package. I'm not at 100% that this does not happen but I am high. Maybe 75% or 80%.

You're not going to like this statement but Zegras/Reinbacher could be our next Drouin/Sergachev trade. Not saying Zegras turns into Drouin (not probable) but it could back fire on the Habs by trading Reinbacher before getting to see him play in the NHL. Think about how high the Ducks were with Drysdale and then consider the comments if fans tried to trade him before he played a game in the NHL. It's risky

If Zegras performed well at the WC's, I'd have higher trade value for him. I really didn't like what I seen and I was expecting a fresh change and him to bring it more. As time moves forward, I think he is gravitating to be a soft but very skilled perimeter type. I know you don't agree but there are trends indicating that.

If Zegras was the stud you are trying to get 5th OA value for, I think you would have already locked him up for 8 years and avoided the bridge.

 

[dracom]

I just don't think the Habs bypass Michkov to take Reinbacher and then move Reinbacher for Zegras in any package. I'm not at 100% that this does not happen but I am high. Maybe 75% or 80%.

You're not going to like this statement but Zegras/Reinbacher could be our next Drouin/Sergachev trade. Not saying Zegras turns into Drouin (not probable) but it could back fire on the Habs by trading Reinbacher before getting to see him play in the NHL. Think about how high the Ducks were with Drysdale and then consider the comments if fans tried to trade him before he played a game in the NHL. It's risky

If Zegras performed well at the WC's, I'd have higher trade value for him. I really didn't like what I seen and I was expected a fresh change and him to bring it more. As time moves forward, I think he is gravitating to be a soft but very skilled perimeter type. I know you don't agree but there are trends indicating that.

If Zegras was the stud you are trying to get 5th OA value for, I think you would have already locked him up for 8 years and avoided the bridge.

Wasn’t the whole thing with Mchkov that he only wanted to play for the flyers? Or was that just a rumor?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I just don't think the Habs bypass Michkov to take Reinbacher and then move Reinbacher for Zegras in any package. I'm not at 100% that this does not happen but I am high. Maybe 75% or 80%.

You're not going to like this statement but Zegras/Reinbacher could be our next Drouin/Sergachev trade. Not saying Zegras turns into Drouin (not probable) but it could back fire on the Habs by trading Reinbacher before getting to see him play in the NHL. Think about how high the Ducks were with Drysdale and then consider the comments if fans tried to trade him before he played a game in the NHL. It's risky

I have no issue with habs not wanting to trade Reinbacher , that’s fine.

It’s saying something around the 26 makes more sense…. Or a package of lesser assets, or talking zegras down. When the reality is we still don’t know what zegras is and can be…. Other than he’s had a very good 2 first seasons and an injury prone 3rd season.

Idk why the Canadians didn’t draft michkov … but wasn’t michkov only willing to come over with certain teams? I imagine they went Reinbacher for different reasons than they thought Reinbacher > michkov

Lol

No. Trouble maker who can't play defense and are primadonas don't hold that much value unless traded for other trouble makers, see Dubois vs Laine.

See it thay way. Dach was traded for 13oa. Bigger, stronger, higher upside.l, better contrac.

Zegras isn't worth more. Maybe a pick around 20.

So. 26 + a B prospect os around the range

Lol no one thought dach had higher potential at time of trade and I’m sure no one feels that way now.


Again with the bad takes. You don’t want zegras, fine.


When has zegras been a trouble maker? He’s taken big steps defensively… which is what you want to see from him

 

[Habs Halifax]

I have no issue with habs not wanting to trade Reinbacher , that’s fine.

It’s saying something around the 26 makes more sense…. Or a package of lesser assets, or talking zegras down. When the reality is we still don’t know what zegras is and can be…. Other than he’s had a very good 2 first seasons and an injury prone 3rd season.

Idk why the Canadians didn’t draft michkov … but wasn’t michkov only willing to come over with certain teams? I imagine they went Reinbacher for different reasons than they thought Reinbacher > michkov

We know you and other Ducks fans don't like the quantity package. I don't even remember all the quantity packages that our fan based threw out there (it was deeper than just 26th though). What I do know is how things like this age with time. It can back fire on either fan base. If Zegras breaks out, laugh more about the quantity packages. If Zegras disappoints, Habs fans laugh and justify the quantity package. In can go two ways and both fan bases need to realize this.

No idea if/when Zegras gets traded. Personally, I will continue to chit chat about Zegras with the Habs but I really have turned away from it. This Guhle, 5th OA, Reinbacher type talk is too rich for me. Like I said, if Zegras performed well with the US at the WC's, I'd have a different opinion today. That performance was a red flag for me.

I see the Habs trading for Kakko. Newhook was late 1st and 2nd so maybe Kakko is two 2nd's (something like that). I'm meh on Kakko but that's the type of deal I see us landing at.

 

[McDonald19]

Montreal fans seem to be in love with their prospect Reinbacher and don’t want to move him.

Ducks fans don’t want to move Zegras in a quantity trade and Reinbacher is the only asset Montreal has that would make any sense.

I don’t see a fit here.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

We know you and other Ducks fans don't like the quantity package. I don't even remember all the quantity packages that our fan based threw out there (it was deeper than just 26th though). What I do know is how things like this age with time. It can back fire on either fan base. If Zegras breaks out, laugh more about the quantity packages. If Zegras disappoints, Habs fans laugh and justify the quantity package. In can go two ways and both fan bases need to realize this.

No idea if/when Zegras gets traded. Personally, I will continue to chit chat about Zegras with the Habs but I really have turned away from it. This Guhle, 5th OA, Reinbacher type talk is too rich for me. Like I said, if Zegras performed well with the US at the WC's, I'd have a different opinion today. That performance was a red flag for me.

I see the Habs trading for Kakko. Newhook was late 1st and 2nd so maybe Kakko is two 2nd's (something like that). I'm meh on Kakko but that's the type of deal I see us landing at.

I don’t see Anaheim in a rush to move zegras…. If a trade that makes us better or gets us a better fit…. Sure.

But I don’t see pv trading zegras now if his value is low like you suggest for a bunch of small pieces…. When he can just hold on to zegras and see how he does with a full camp and potential healthy season…. He’s team controlled for a while.

The big facts are zegras is well liked by the team, staff and org.

The team was much better when zegras was on the ice for them, and zegras started to look like himself when he returned from injury both times.

He was consistently 1 of our most dangerous players(was snake bitten a bit), and took positive steps defensively…. I hope we keep him personally

 

[jfhabs]

I wouldn't do that, but if this management feel they can make a hockey player out of Zegras I'd trust them with the move.

I'd much rather Anahiem pick a defenseman and we pick a forward like Lindstrom. I think we're better off with Lindstrom + Reinbacher than Zegras + Dickinson/Buuium

Montreal fans seem to be in love with their prospect Reinbacher and don’t want to move him.

Ducks fans don’t want to move Zegras in a quantity trade and Reinbacher is the only asset Montreal has that would make any sense.

I don’t see a fit here.

I think we have other good assets like the 5th pick, Lane Hutson, Mailloux, Roy, etc. But I don't see the urge for us to move these assets for a guy like Zegras. Maybe next season. Seems like trying to take short cuts on the rebuild and that rarely ends up being good in retrospec

 

[Habs Halifax]

Montreal fans seem to be in love with their prospect Reinbacher and don’t want to move him.

Ducks fans don’t want to move Zegras in a quantity trade and Reinbacher is the only asset Montreal has that would make any sense.

I don’t see a fit here.

I think we value Reinbacher just as much as the Ducks valued Drysdale (pre NHL). We understand that he might be an OK top 4D or better. It's just too hard to know. But yeah, a RD who has size, great skating, and works very hard shift/shift. This is more rare to acquire than a top 6 winger.

Habs fans have not forgotten the Drouin/Sergachev flip. Ducks fans will not like the Drouin/Zegras comparable but it fits more than it doesn't in terms of risks. I believe we traded for Drouin for his age 21+ seasons and Zegras is 23. A little more sample and edge to Zegras for sure. Ducks fans are certainly trying to sell everyone that Zegras is more than just a skilled perimeter type but the part that I wonder about is if this was true, Why are the Ducks considering trades? Doesn't add up to me.

I think both fan bases are guilty a bit. Ducks valuing Zegras with the 5th pick and Habs offering those quantity packages. Truth is probably in the middle of this somewhere but it's a wide range.

Not sure what Gorton/Hughes think about Zegras. I think they are interested but not desperate. Trying our best to find the pieces the Ducks want but it probably does not happen.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Again, Zegras + 3oa probably gets them in the door on talks for any big names that pop up.

Put it this way, if you were being asked to give up Caufield and the 5oa, are you going after a star player or more picks and prospects?

Trends plays a factor. Zegras had a rough season and didn't do well for the US at the WC's. Caufield's season was OK to what you would expect (at a min). Zegras had 1 goal with 1 assist in 8 WC's games. Was a -4 which was worse from all the forwards on the US team.

There is no good way to spin this in Zegras's favor: If a team wants to give you that Reinbacher or 5th OA value in a trade, Habs let them.

* Contract talks were sour. Ducks didn't want to commit to the long term deal but Ducks fans certainly want trade value for a sure shot hit and someone you would sign for 8 years (vs bridge).

* Injury plagued season. Ducks fans say he came back and was very good at the end of the season. You would assume he was 100% by then right? Also hear he is not soft at all? Not so sure I agree with that part.

* Very poor performance at the WC's. This was something I was looking forward to seeing and it's very disappointing for me. His trade value was lowed as a result. I was expecting fresh energy playing with better talent.

Let me guess, other fans have to ignore this right? Zegras is a top 6 talent IMO. The problem I have is it's a perimeter skilled type. Skill is top notch but I don't consider him gritty at all and I don't think he turns the playoff needle in terms of more physicality. I think this is the exact reason why the Ducks are considering trades. Their 6-8 year long term deal AAV was much less than what Zegras and his agent were asking for. There is disconnect between how the team see his talent vs how the player sees his talent. And then he has this meh season after it. It's not a good trend bud.

 

[McDonald19]

* Injury plagued season. Ducks fans say he came back and was very good at the end of the season. You would assume he was 100% by then right? Also hear he is not soft at all? Not so sure I agree with that part.

He initiates contact and doesn’t shy away from confrontation, but he is skinny. Does being skinny mean he is soft?

 

[Habs Halifax]

He initiates contact and doesn’t shy away from confrontation, but he is skinny. Does being skinny mean he is soft?

Well, if he can't win more puck battles than he wins and he gets pushed around, that's a soft type for me. Regardless of that player hitting 1st or running away from the hit.

To be clear, I'm not trying to lower Zegras below the low point he is at. I do think he is a top 6 skilled winger. But this center and gritty part of his game is not where his value is at. If he was more of a complete forward with his skill, Ducks fans would tell you to go pound sand with this trade talk.

He's got trade value. More than the Habs quantity packages but less than Reinbacher/5th OA value.

 

[anezthes]

What about simply Zegras + 3 for Reinbacher + 5?

No.

Zegras > Reinbacher
Zegras > 5
3 > Reinbacher
3 > 5

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wasn’t the whole thing with Mchkov that he only wanted to play for the flyers? Or was that just a rumor?

Nah, it was more about his attitude and KHL contract IMO.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No.

Zegras > Reinbacher
Zegras > 5
3 > Reinbacher
3 > 5

Zegras vs Reinbacher. Edge to Zegras because he is in the NHL. Very difficult to compare someone at age 23 in the NHL to someone at age 18 not in the NHL and a forward vs D This is very debatable. Reinbacher was 5th in a weaker draft than this season. In this draft, he likely goes 6-13 range. If the Habs were deep on RD, we might consider this trade.

Zegras vs 5th OA. Zegras had that value or more before last season. This is the part I find funny with the Ducks. I bet you that if the situation was reversed and a Habs fans said this (with Zegras with us), Ducks fans would use words like ridiculous. The rest I can see as a fair argument. But this Zegras vs 5th OA is a big reach in a deep draft. Especially after the season Zegras just had.

3 vs Reinbacher. I agree.

3 vs 5.

 

[anezthes]

Ducks didn't want to commit to the long term deal..
I think this is the exact reason why the Ducks are considering trades.
Their 6-8 year long term deal AAV was much less than what Zegras and his agent were asking for.
There is disconnect between how the team see his talent vs how the player sees his talent.

Source?